I'm Tired....................

[tombogan03884]

I get frustrated with the system as it naturally tends to the lowest energy output or in other words, the teachers don't like to work. It is natural, but I cannot support a system that does not reward those who work harder or even realize that some people should be employed elsewhere. I am a real supporter of if the school has a 50 percent failure rate everyone should be fired. If Ford had a 50 percent failure rate on their product they would be out of business in a week and sued and hopefully jailed. The failure rate in school is much more important than a car but there are no consequences for the systems failure rate.

 

Tenure is BS

[PegLeg45]

  Tenure is BS

I feel about the same way towards teachers as I do towards pro sports players. If you don't perform, you don't get paid.
The big problem with that is the teachers would just pass the kids to keep their jobs and everyone would be right back where we are now......

[jaybet]

My daughter is a special ed teacher and one of the drummers I work with is a music teacher. One thing that we don't think about when you talk about teachers is how much crap they are handed every day by the administrators and how little backup they get. My daughter has about 12 kids that all have different problems (please excuse me if I didn't use the right term) and she has some aids to help because these are kids that can't do anything or freak out or might hurt another kid or have a seizure or something. Trouble is, the paperwork that a teacher of "normal" kids has to do for the class, she has to do for EACH kid, plus special paperwork on each one because of their special needs. It takes a lot of her off time to keep up. She loves kids and loves teaching and after a few years already hates her job.
My drummer friend says that the admin will come to them and say, "Do whatever you have to do to get these kids to pass". He said some teachers just curve everything so they pass because they catch a bunch of crap from the administration AND the parents come in and threaten them because little Bobby is a dumbass.  Everybody wins a prize.

[tt11758]

Everybody wins a prize.

Much like the "participation medals" given to everyone who participates in a sport, regardless of whether or not they contribute a damn thing.  Can't hurt anybody's feelings.  We must all sit in a circle and sing "kum-ba-yah".

Here endeth the rant.

[Thanos]

One thing that we don't think about when you talk about teachers is how much crap they are handed every day by the administrators and how little backup they get.

I think about it all the time...I just follow it up with if I had a job like that I would quit and find something else to do. If the teachers can't find another job because they don't have any other skills, one must question if these are the people we want teaching our children?

Seriously, you didn't check to see if it was a crap job before going to school for 4 years for it? What sort of idiot would do that? And if someone is not bright enough to see the plain future that is spoken of my every parent in the United States...why on earth would we want them anywhere near our children? Come on, I wouldn't let a homeless drunk that got there by stupid decisions influence my child, what is the difference between that and a stupid college student that wants to "Change the world by being a teacher?"

[Sponsor]

[cookie62]

Come on, I wouldn't let a homeless drunk that got there by stupid decisions influence my child, what is the difference between that and a stupid college student that wants to "Change the world by being a teacher?"

Then it's useless to try to help others?

[THE CORONER]

Been forgetting PTA.
Thanos is right the problem is THE ADMINISTRATORS, not the system. The system worked fine up till the mid 60's. I KNOW. I was there to watch the change happen around me. I went to public school, as did most on here. If  some one thinks WE'RE indoctrinated they aren't paying much attention.

Been forgetting PTA.
Thanos is right the problem is THE ADMINISTRATORS, not the system. The system worked fine up till the mid 60's. I KNOW. I was there to watch the change happen around me. I went to public school, as did most on here. If  some one thinks WE'RE indoctrinated they aren't paying much attention.

The problem with the public school system isn't the fault of the government, administrators, teachers, bus drivers, or custodians. 

It's the parents!  It's that simple. 

"You can't discipline my kid.  We don't believe in prayer at school.  My kid says he didn't do it, and I believe him/her.  Why can't my kid be first?  Why is my kid last?  Why can't you control my kid in your class?  If you take my kid's cell phone away at school, how am I suppose to text them?  I don't have time to study with my kid; your the teacher, do you're job.  I'm not coming to the parent-teacher conference because I don't have time, My kids don't do drugs; I know where they are and what they are doing while I'm not at home.  My kid doesn't have a learning disability, you have a teaching disability."

Heard any of them before?

The tools for learning at public schools are there.  They've always been there.  Rules have been established there as well.  Certain parents and their kids think they're above the rules.  It's no different then our laws and our lawmakers.  Rules and laws are established to protect ourselves from ourselves.  If you speed on the highway, you broke the law.  You can bitch about it for sure.  But did you, or didn't you know the law?  Did you learn anything?  You sure did!  Because you probably got fined and maybe points on you're license.  Same thing applies in schools. 

Rules are established because our kids are at a place designed for teaching studies to feed their minds and bodies.  Not for disrespecting administrators, creating a distracting atmosphere for others, or to share with others dangerous drugs, sexually oriented lessons, or any other types of immoral behavior.  Just as rules have been established, penalties are enacted to ensure them.  But some parents feel they are above the rules and the penalties.  So they're children act accordingly.   

Our society has become lazy in parenting.  Children learn from them closest to them.  From early on, babysitters, family members, neighbors, etc....have all had influences on our children.  What kind of education are you're children getting nowadays with their so-called friends, while your not around?  It's not a healthy one I can assure you.  Texting, phone pictures, my space, Internet chat, etc....they're more knowledgeable in mischief and mayhem, than in reading and writing; I can assure you!

But all is not lost....If your a heads up parent, who cares about your child's education, friends, activities, and future; then you're already ahead of the game.  Staying involved and making them accountable, will make them responsible, respectful, and grateful in life.  If you're out of touch with what is going on in you're child's life, then step up and get real!  You're the adult, the parent, the teacher.  Act like it.  My kids respect me because I'm not their friend.  I'm their parent.  They have plenty of friends.  But only one or two parents.   

I'm damn glad I got an education.  Yes!  I graduated.  No!  I'm not a doctor, or lawyer.  I'm a truck driver.  But of all the lessons I've learned in life... the teachings of my parents morals and core values helped me in school when I struggled the most.  I didn't blame others for my faults and short comings.  I was paddled when I got into trouble.  At school, and then at home.  Because I was taught better by my parents than to behave that way. 

My grades were my responsibility.  If I needed help, by God, it was my responsibility to ask for it.  It's ok to be proud.  However; it's not ok to have idleness keep one from seeking the answer, or the truth. 

The kids nowadays are lazy, unmotivated, full of excuses, lack respect and are verbally abusive towards adults in general, lack self respect, attend school mostly for socializing while disrupting the typical learning process,  they have no fear of disciplinary actions because punishments are passive at best, because of parents who live in the me,me,me world; and don't teach their children core values to better themselves, and those around them.  The first and last teacher a child learns from is the parent, at home. 

Teenagers are especially becoming more brazen in their behavior.  When parents coddle them when they misbehave, or falter, the behavior has now become justified in the mind of a teenager.  Because they learned it at home first.  So if parents can bitch, whine, and complain about this, that, and the other; then what are the children learning? 

Therefore, I'm tired of..... whiners and blamers who want to point a finger at everyone else, when they need to clean up their own messes first! 

No offense implied to those who get it.

Phew!!!Sorry for the rant y'all.

[fightingquaker13]

The problem with the public school system isn't the fault of the government, administrators, teachers, bus drivers, or custodians. 


I'm damn glad I got an education.  Yes!  I graduated.  No!  I'm not a doctor, or lawyer.  I'm a truck driver.  But of all the lessons I've learned in life... the teachings of my parents morals and core values helped me in school when I struggled the most.  I didn't blame others for my faults and short comings.  I was paddled when I got into trouble.  At school, and then at home.  Because I was taught better by my parents than to behave that way. 
Phew!!!Sorry for the rant y'all.

Sweet Jesus!! Thank you Coroner. I have been sitting this out and biting my tongue. I said, Quaker, these are good folks, and you've gotten yourelf into enough trouble on this forum as a Libertarian without borrowing more. Well, Coroner, you've brought me into this. Thank you for the inspiration. You say you're a truck driver, I say you havea PhD in reality. Thats no bullshit either because people like you are why I do what I do, and for not all that much money besides. I am an academic. I've taught at high schools, liberal arts colleges and at state universities; and I've taught politics, which is the most important subject there is. Not because it will build a bridge or cure cancer, but because it teaches future generations to understand the value of a free and democratic government.  While reading this thread I have heard opions ranging fron the honestly misinformed (its the teachers unions or the administration) to  the delusional, if not downright selfish and borderline unpatriotic (why should I educate my neighbors kids, and in a commie(???are there any of those outsideof North Korea???)  "government" school.The sad fact is, they miss a few key points:
1) Talent follows money. You get what you pay for. All those rightwing blowhards who prostrate themselves before the free market think that it somehow stops when it comes to teachers. You offer someone crap wages, bad working conditions and a lot of bureaucraitic BS and then complain you don't have top notch talent? Its like you expect Mother Therseas to decend from on high and staff the schools, and then villify them when its not all sunshine and puppies. If I'm good at math and want to teach, yet can get 50K as an engineer and 30K as a teacher with the same 4 year degree, which way will most people jump? Grow up folks! There is no free lunch! You get what you pay for and, yes Virginia, it will raise your tax bill. Deal with it.
2) The Founding Fathers made a free public education a cornerstone of the Republic. They didn't do it because they were (sigh)commies. They did it it because they understood that a democracy depended on an educated, literate populace that could hold its leaders to account.(As some of the rightwing Christians with short memories on this thread may recall, this was a bit of an issue in the Reformation. Being able to read the Bible in you own language and interpret it for yourself did factor in there [stress the being able to read part]).
3) Parents: Here is where I once again praise Coroner. Whether you love or hate Obama (or, are like me willing to wait and see) the one thing I am on board with him about is his view on parenthood. He tells about his mother (single, a student, abandonded by dear old Dad) yet still made sure to read over his home work and help him with school. The man interrupted a presidential campaign to go to parent teacher conferences. How many parents bother to turn off the TV to show up? A teacher has your kid 1 hour a day, and yet many parents think they are responsible 100% for the kid's education. Again (and I admit I am doing this to be provocative) Obama has said to parents "turn off the TV, get rid of the play station and get your child a desk,and if not a desk, clear off the kitchen table after school for home work". Again, love the man or hate him, but the one thing in life you can't fake is a happy well adjusted child. If more teachers had students like Sasha and Malia, the public schools wuld be better places.They're not, because too many kids don't have good moms and dads.
The bottom line of this rant is that as a teacher of politics and civics, someone who is responsible for making sure the next generation is equipped to deal with future crisis in a democatic fashion, I am sick of the BS. To quote Pogo we have met the enemy and he is us. The enemy is a public too cheap to tax themselves to give their kids a first rate education with first rate talent in the classroom, and parents too disintrested to acually understand that THEY are responsible for ther kids education and that the teachers are just there to help. Here endeth the rant.
FIGHTINGquaker13 (at least on this issue)

[Thanos]

Then it's useless to try to help others?

No. But do you want the least common denominator helping your kids? Most teachers get a degree in teaching...wow, so what they hell do they know? How to teach? Not likely, and more important they can't teach my kids calculus and differential equations because they didn't learn any of that in their "Teacher Program"

[Thanos]

My kids respect me because I'm not their friend.  I'm their parent.  They have plenty of friends.  But only one or two parents.   

I am not my kids friend either, I am their father. I teach them the right things and I expect that they live that way when I am not around. I suck as a father, but I try and my wife is the greatest mom anyone could want...and she doen't think it is her job to be a friend either. Teach your children right when they are young and they will not stray from it.