The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: THE CORONER on March 17, 2009, 03:50:16 AM
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With the world around us turning to shit, I got to thinking about Rastus' topic entitled "Homeland Terrorists Training Camps". As if we don't have enough problems around the world; we, people of a "free nation" are more part of the problem concerning Terrorism, than I had previously believed.
Because we live in a country where our government has granted us certain rights and liberties... individual freedoms of religion and speech, have become poisoned by groups and individuals, whose governmental opposition, hatreds of certain ethnicity's, and socialistic retardedness, is based on, and primarily focused around a religious ideology to fuel their agendas.
You give a bible to a common man, he will read it to nurture is heart and soul. You give that same book to a religious fanatic, and he'll teach that common man to believe everything he is taught. And subsequently, the common man isn't nurturing his heart and soul anymore....he's learned to believe in an ideology that takes him from being a solitary spiritual man, and turned him into a right fighting, agenda chaser. And we've allowed it to go on.
It starts with some one's crazy notion about this, that, or the other. But soon they've convinced their friends, then the neighbors, and their friends, and so on.....Finally, you have a group as small as a gang of 5-10; to a group of 500-1000.
Remember the soldiers who came back from WWII? It started out as a group of vets riding motorcycles together as friends for fun. Then they said, let's start a club. And now we've gone from the Boozefighters, to the Hell's Angels, the Outlaws, the Bandidos, the Mongols, etc... After the Civil War it was the KKK. Now there's the KKK, skinheads, neo-nazis, national socialists movement, white nationists, black separatists {nation of islam}, national alliance, the aryan nation, united southern brotherhood, neo-confederate, holocaust denialists, european-american unity and rights organizations, the crips, the bloods, the mexican mafia, the texas syndicate, the new black panther party, and the list goes on and on.....
If we've, and I mean WE, have allowed these hate groups {who I believe to be terrorists just as the Jihadists} to exist in our own backyards, year after year, decade after decade; then why shouldn't WE have any expectations to allow the Jihadists as well? Remember the Oklahoma City Bombing in 95'? Sure you do. It wasn't Jihad then, was it?
Don't get me wrong, I despise all cowards who hide behind self-proclaimed religious extremists, who kill innocent citizens of our nation in any form. I just don't see the difference between them and all the other hate groups? Holocaust Denialists? Give me a break! What the hell did our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers do over there then? But they're are groups in our country teaching this shit! It's a slap in the face, to the bravery of all the soldiers who died there. But we allow these groups to exists. Neo-Nazis? Adolf Hitler was a mentally defective, ego-maniac, that murdered millions of innocents because he believed they were the root of all things evil, and they were not of aryan ancestry. They were different. They're religious beliefs were different. Adolf Hitler decided to kill them. And then the coward killed himself.
How can all these Neo-Nazi idiots follow the ideology of a murderous coward? Better yet, why has our government allowed it? I'll tell you why....Because we have some government leaders who are members, if not only affiliated, or followers themselves of these groups. David Duke ring a bell? Others whom I cannot name, unless I want an all expense-paid vacation in a Federal Penitentiary. Lawmakers and LEOs alike, sympathize with these groups in part or whole as to the principles for existence throughout the country. It's a sad reality people! It's not a matter of whether they should be allowed to exist any longer. It's a question of national security. They are what they have always been....Terrorists!
A plague, an illness, a disease, or whatever mental disability you want as a label for it. "IT" is not just the rantings of poor, uneducated, rural folk. Most of these hate groups have financially sponsored memberships. Strength in numbers. There are groups like the KKK, the skinheads, and neo-nazis nationwide. Small groups in specific locations. That's where it all begins. Just like our military installations throughout the country.
The "Turner Diaries" written by National Alliance Founder, William Pierce, is what many believe to be their hatred filled handbook to an all out race war. Freedom of speech to promote anarchy. Just another example of how our rights under the Constitution are exploited.
Many of you may sympathize with anyone of these groups in part or whole. I don't know? Does that make you a terrorists? Does the hatred you've been taught by one of these groups, make you a threat to me, because I'm different than you? Because I might be a Christian, Catholic, Jew, Hindu, Buddhists, or a Baptists? If I'm not beating on the door of your home, or standing on a pulpit preaching my rhetoric to you. Why would you care what I believe, if I'm not trying to kill you because of it?
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Coroner, I think you're living in the past somewhat. Do the skinheads and KKK exist? Yes. I have heard that even today there is a town in Texas along the Mississippi river that is run by neo-Nazis and unless you're family, you do NOT stop there.
I see much greater threats coming from more modern sources, though.
First, gummints do not grant us rights and liberties. We - you and I and the skinheads and normal citizens - have those rights by being born. Gummints only curtail rights and liberties with their powers. When they are out of control - that is a major threat.
Foreign nationals whose sole mission is to kill us and subvert our way of life are a much greater threat than the groups you seem to focus on. Those mostly white groups are criminal groups, and various LEO agencies have been after them for decades with various measures of success. Their lack of complete success is a threat to us, especially when the SHTF and prison populations are released.
Some of the foreign nationals are criminal groups, such as the Mexican Mafia and MS-13. These groups need to be obliterated, and our gummint has let us down in this regard with the open border on the south. This is a threat.
The foreign nationals that should be concerning us the most are the ones who are at war with us. OK City, World Trade Center, and hundreds of other failed and successful attacks tell us that they will not stop, only adapt - until they are destroyed. Utterly. Until they are, they will remain the predominant threat of our era. And it is not a LEO problem, it is a war problem.
I also need to call out your all-too-easy transition from reading the Bible to religious fanaticism to white (mostly) supremacy to criminality. And the transition from religiosity to hiding behind this religious facade. I see this as a simplistic and anti-religion screed that misses the point. It is not religion in general - which yes, has been abused throughout history. Remember Tom Lehrer's satircal piece that included the line:
"The Catholics hate the protestants, and the protestants hate the Catholics, and the muslims hate the hindus, and everyone hates the Jews."?
And no one is "hiding" behind religion. It has to do with the nature of the so-called religion. The foreign nationals' religion demands their behavior, it is not a religion of peace, but is founded on conquest and forced conversion - or death. As someone once so glibly put it - a Christian will die so that your soul may live; a Muslim will kill you for his own soul.
This is a much greater threat to Western Civilization than the white supremacists and drug gangs. And allowing your focus to be diverted to something so minimal and away from a serious threat is in an of itself a threat as well, since it will prepare you for the last fight, not the coming one.
Sorry, not "one", we have a number - out of control gummint, foreign nationals, a destroyed economy, and others.
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Because we live in a country where our government has granted us certain rights and liberties... individual freedoms of religion and speech,
While not the main thesis, Coroner, I can't let this one slip by. It is, of itself, a major point.
Government granted us nothing. These freedoms are unalienable and exist outside of any government. The Declaration of Independence states that these Rights were bestowed on all people by a higher authority and that government is created by the people and the people give the government "powers" not rights. Rights and power flow from the people to the government not the other way around.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
Note also the wording in the Bill of Rights does not "grant" freedoms but assumes those freedoms are universal, that they preexist, and the BOR prohibits the government from infringement. Here are some of the key phrases from the Bill of Right
Congress shall make no law
the right of the people
the right of the people....shall no be infringed
The right of the people....shall not be violated
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Catch Freedom for all 22 or Freedom for none till they break the law of the land.
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Coroner, I think you're living in the past somewhat. Do the skinheads and KKK exist? Yes. I have heard that even today there is a town in Texas along the Mississippi river that is run by neo-Nazis and unless you're family, you do NOT stop there.
Click this link, and you can answer your own question about the existence of the KKK, and the skinheads.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp
They are nationwide Pathfinder.
I see much greater threats coming from more modern sources, though.
First, gummints do not grant us rights and liberties. We - you and I and the skinheads and normal citizens - have those rights by being born. Gummints only curtail rights and liberties with their powers. When they are out of control - that is a major threat.
I know my rights under the Constitution, as well as the role of our government. It's you that didn't get it! It was sarcasm sir!
Foreign nationals whose sole mission is to kill us and subvert our way of life are a much greater threat than the groups you seem to focus on. Those mostly white groups are criminal groups, and various LEO agencies have been after them for decades with various measures of success. Their lack of complete success is a threat to us, especially when the SHTF and prison populations are released.
Wrong Sir! The truth was revealed after the WACO disaster. The problem with hate groups and religious nut jobs is public perception. That's why the Feds messed it up so bad.....Do we go? Do we wait them out? No one including our Federal Bureau of Investigation had a clue as how to handle the Branch Davidians. They couldn't tell the difference between a hostage and a hostile there. As a result of this mess, the public opinion of the incident was negative towards the Feds. So now, they're not a police force stomping out hate groups; their babysitters! They're reactive, not proactive.
Some of the foreign nationals are criminal groups, such as the Mexican Mafia and MS-13. These groups need to be obliterated, and our gummint has let us down in this regard with the open border on the south. This is a threat.
So now we get to pick and choose are Terrorists groups? The Mexican Mafia and the MS-13, have more American-born members, than all of Latin America. "These groups need to be obliterated, and our gummint has let us down in the regard with the open border on the south." ............ You said that! Now, tell us about the "foreign" nationals again? Do your homework before you try to lay that bag of garbage on us. What are the skinheads then? They started in Europe, not here. How about the Neo-Nazis? Didn't start here as well. Now that "you're" history lesson is over, tell us about those foreign nationals again?
The foreign nationals that should be concerning us the most are the ones who are at war with us. OK City, World Trade Center, and hundreds of other failed and successful attacks tell us that they will not stop, only adapt - until they are destroyed. Utterly. Until they are, they will remain the predominant threat of our era. And it is not a LEO problem, it is a war problem.
Now that we know all about foreign nationals, we can get rid of them. Right Pathfinder? Everything you said in the above paragraph is my point exactly. But your belief of "whom" the foreign nationals are seems to be the real question?
I also need to call out your all-too-easy transition from reading the Bible to religious fanaticism to white (mostly) supremacy to criminality. And the transition from religiosity to hiding behind this religious facade. I see this as a simplistic and anti-religion screed that misses the point. It is not religion in general - which yes, has been abused throughout history. Remember Tom Lehrer's satircal piece that included the line:
Who said anything about religious fanaticism to white (mostly) supremacy? I said:
You give a bible to a common man, he will read it to nurture is heart and soul. You give that same book to a religious fanatic, and he'll teach that common man to believe everything he is taught. And subsequently, the common man isn't nurturing his heart and soul anymore....he's learned to believe in an ideology that takes him from being a solitary spiritual man, and turned him into a right fighting, agenda chaser. And we've allowed it to go on. So please don't try to change, or put words in my mouth I never said.
"The Catholics hate the protestants, and the protestants hate the Catholics, and the muslims hate the hindus, and everyone hates the Jews."?
I'm not taking any account to anyone writing a "satire" on any discussion of terrorism. And the above satire piece isn't how I, or a lot of other people feel about the religions mentioned either.
And no one is "hiding" behind religion. It has to do with the nature of the so-called religion. The foreign nationals' religion demands their behavior, it is not a religion of peace, but is founded on conquest and forced conversion - or death. As someone once so glibly put it - a Christian will die so that your soul may live; a Muslim will kill you for his own soul.
Well, who said it? You made that up right? Let's not confuse the readers on your expertise in the ideologies of the Muslim religion. Not all Muslims are Jihadists sir.
This is a much greater threat to Western Civilization than the white supremacists and drug gangs. And allowing your focus to be diverted to something so minimal and away from a serious threat is in an of itself a threat as well, since it will prepare you for the last fight, not the coming one.
Not that it bears anything in relation to my topic; but the white supremacists, drug gangs, etc....are exactly why we have gun bans on automatic weapons sir. They are the criminal threat to your right to one of these guns if you wanted one as a lawful citizen.
Sorry, not "one", we have a number - out of control gummint, foreign nationals, a destroyed economy, and others.
Agreed. We have many. But my topic was about this, not that.
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While not the main thesis, Coroner, I can't let this one slip by. It is, of itself, a major point.
Government granted us nothing. These freedoms are unalienable and exist outside of any government. The Declaration of Independence states that these Rights were bestowed on all people by a higher authority and that government is created by the people and the people give the government "powers" not rights. Rights and power flow from the people to the government not the other way around.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
Note also the wording in the Bill of Rights does not "grant" freedoms but assumes those freedoms are universal, that they preexist, and the BOR prohibits the government from infringement. Here are some of the key phrases from the Bill of Right
Congress shall make no law
the right of the people
the right of the people....shall no be infringed
The right of the people....shall not be violated
You didn't get it either. Sorry. It was sarcasm. I know our government didn't "grant" us "certain" rights and liberties. Nice to see you paying attention though.
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Coroner, If you advocate destroying groups of people like the Branch Davidians, KKK, Neo Nazis,Jews, Salvation army or any one else, just because you don't agree with them you do not belong here. You should go to some sh!thole like Serbia. Because YOU are part of the problem. If you actually believe that crap you do not, and never will "get it".
Lesson number only The Bill of Rights applies to ALL citizens be they gentle geniuses or malevolent a$$holes.
Deal with it.
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Coroner, If you advocate destroying groups of people like the Branch Davidians, KKK, Neo Nazis,Jews, Salvation are or any one else, just because you don't agree with them you do not belong here. You should go to some sh!thole like Serbia. Because YOU are part of the problem. If you actually believe that crap you do not, and never will "get it".
Lesson number only The Bill of Rights applies to ALL citizens be they gentle geniuses or malevolent a$$holes.
Deal with it.
I don't hink he's saying that. I think the point was to resond to some earler posts in "homeland terroist camps" thread that had lot of folsk declaring all muslims the enemy and esentially writing them out of 1A protection. I think Coroner is pointing out, correctly that we need to be selective about who we feel threatend by and understand there's a lot Americans that we need to worry about, not just foriegn muslims. After all OK city was two white supremacist rednecks in a Ryder truck, and pre-911, it was our deadliest act of terror. Likewise the DC sniper was just a pissed off black supremacist. I could be wrong but this was my take on what was written.
fightingquaker13
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Well fightingquaker13 .. I was in the middle of writing and stopped to answer an e-mail ..got myself something to drink..and came back in and you had posted kinda what I was writing. So I just deleted what I was clumsily trying to say in less than 50,000 words.. ;D
That is pretty much how I interpreted and read what Coroner wrote...
Maybe I'm the one that don't get it. And I might be off base also...But I agree that American soil has a lot of enemies right here that we need to be on top and aware of...plus those who are not of American ancestry.
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That's what I've been SAYING. If you catch them breaking the law, fine kill them or lock them up . But If they are not CAUGHT breaking the law then any excuse used to suppress them is just as valid against the rest of us.
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Yep... that's very true..... you're right tom.......... Its a fine thin line on how far we can go even IF we suspect, know or think we know.
BUT............ to think that those who are Mexican Mafia and MS-13 and those gangs like them, have any shred of fairness or soul when it comes to their agenda.. They don't. Evil clear through.
So I have a hard time with the part about "waiting until they are caught".. To even get into that group you have to rape and kill and extort and do more than most who are setting in jail..and a hell of a lot more than any normal person could even imagine doing. So in my opinion ( and this is just mine) ... Just because they are IN the organizations and openly taunt and flaunt is proof enough for me that they have no place in a normal society. . They don't need to be suppressed.. they need to be "gone".
( Am I off course here? Did I miss the whole jist of the posts? Sometimes I start on something and get off base) :-\
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I don't hink he's saying that. I think the point was to resond to some earler posts in "homeland terroist camps" thread that had lot of folsk declaring all muslims the enemy and esentially writing them out of 1A protection. I think Coroner is pointing out, correctly that we need to be selective about who we feel threatend by and understand there's a lot Americans that we need to worry about, not just foriegn muslims. After all OK city was two white supremacist rednecks in a Ryder truck, and pre-911, it was our deadliest act of terror. Likewise the DC sniper was just a pissed off black supremacist. I could be wrong but this was my take on what was written.
fightingquaker13
Thank you! You hit the nail on the head! It is what it is, terrorism here at home.
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Well fightingquaker13 .. I was in the middle of writing and stopped to answer an e-mail ..got myself something to drink..and came back in and you had posted kinda what I was writing. So I just deleted what I was clumsily trying to say in less than 50,000 words.. ;D
That is pretty much how I interpreted and read what Coroner wrote...
Maybe I'm the one that don't get it. And I might be off base also...But I agree that American soil has a lot of enemies right here that we need to be on top and aware of...plus those who are not of American ancestry.
Thank you, you got it too!
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That's what I've been SAYING. If you catch them breaking the law, fine kill them or lock them up . But If they are not CAUGHT breaking the law then any excuse used to suppress them is just as valid against the rest of us.
But that's not what you said at all! You said:
Coroner, If you advocate destroying groups of people like the Branch Davidians, KKK, Neo Nazis,Jews, Salvation are or any one else, just because you don't agree with them you do not belong here. You should go to some sh!thole like Serbia. Because YOU are part of the problem. If you actually believe that crap you do not, and never will "get it".
Lesson number only The Bill of Rights applies to ALL citizens be they gentle geniuses or malevolent a$$holes.
Deal with it.
I was advocating the destruction of groups of people......and "just because you don't agree with them you do not belong here." And...."You should go to some sh!thole like Serbia. Because YOU are part of the problem."
You didn't say anything like this to me earlier....
That's what I've been SAYING. If you catch them breaking the law, fine kill them or lock them up
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Coroner, If you advocate destroying groups of people like the Branch Davidians, KKK, Neo Nazis,Jews, Salvation are or any one else, just because you don't agree with them you do not belong here. You should go to some sh!thole like Serbia. Because YOU are part of the problem. If you actually believe that crap you do not, and never will "get it".
Lesson number only The Bill of Rights applies to ALL citizens be they gentle geniuses or malevolent a$$holes.
Deal with it.
First, lets get one thing straight! I didn't say anything about destroying anyone. Read it again. I said, I can't believe we've allowed it to go on. And as far as agreeing or disagreeing with someone, or group isn't my point either. The topic was about Terrorism here in our country. And there is no crap about it Tom. It's as real as the warning label on a pack of cigarettes. It's not about them being right or wrong, it's about them being period.
Does the Bill of Rights apply to the Jihad Muslims as well Tom? If they're born here it does. Read it again. The part about how there's no difference between them and the hate groups already here. Here's what i wrote:
If we've, and I mean WE, have allowed these hate groups {who I believe to be terrorists just as the Jihadists} to exist in our own backyards, year after year, decade after decade; then why shouldn't WE have any expectations to allow the Jihadists as well? Remember the Oklahoma City Bombing in 95'? Sure you do. It wasn't Jihad then, was it?
If you get a handle on that, then you would know that the OK. City Bombing was the misguided act of a William Pierce follower. Check into it, then you'll see I'm not a complete idiot. Read it for what it says. If it makes you angry fine. But you shouldn't be angry at me. This post topic was written as an opinion, with facts, and even questions about Terrorism in our own country. Similar to topics perhaps you and others have posted on here.
But whether I agreed or disagreed with your postings, I didn't tell you that you didn't belong here, or that you should go to some
sh!thole like Serbia because you are part of the problem? Your attacking me Tom. And your comments are way off topic. I'm not advocating anything? Nor did I mention destroying anyone? Remember the Bill of Rights you threw up in my face?....I have as you do Tom, the freedom of speech.
The whole point of my topic was to point out that while we despise terrorism, we have as a matter of fact, citizens in our country already that have committed acts of terrorism right here at home against our own people. So why shouldn't Muslim Jihadists be allowed to have training camps here as well?
But I didn't call anyone names, (except Hitler, I called a coward; and neo-nazi idiots), or blame any one person for "allowing this to happen" except our government. And if there's any blame to be had, it certainly lies there. I certainly didn't say anything about advocating or destroying the Branch Davidians, or anyone else? I don't know where you got that? But your putting words in my mouth, I didn't write Tom?
You know, it's great to agree to disagree on topics, but making statements in argument to something not said by someone is "libel" to cause you legal problems someday Tom. Deal with that!
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Yep... that's very true..... you're right tom.......... Its a fine thin line on how far we can go even IF we suspect, know or think we know.
BUT............ to think that those who are Mexican Mafia and MS-13 and those gangs like them, have any shred of fairness or soul when it comes to their agenda.. They don't. Evil clear through.
So I have a hard time with the part about "waiting until they are caught".. To even get into that group you have to rape and kill and extort and do more than most who are setting in jail..and a hell of a lot more than any normal person could even imagine doing. So in my opinion ( and this is just mine) ... Just because they are IN the organizations and openly taunt and flaunt is proof enough for me that they have no place in a normal society. . They don't need to be suppressed.. they need to be "gone".
( Am I off course here? Did I miss the whole jist of the posts? Sometimes I start on something and get off base) :-\
Thank you, I agree. Life's too short for all the hatred, and acts of terrorism. What a sad place we live, when all we care about is the pain of others to pleasure ourselves.
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Yep... that's very true..... you're right tom.......... Its a fine thin line on how far we can go even IF we suspect, know or think we know.
BUT............ to think that those who are Mexican Mafia and MS-13 and those gangs like them, have any shred of fairness or soul when it comes to their agenda.. They don't. Evil clear through.
So I have a hard time with the part about "waiting until they are caught".. To even get into that group you have to rape and kill and extort and do more than most who are setting in jail..and a hell of a lot more than any normal person could even imagine doing. So in my opinion ( and this is just mine) ... Just because they are IN the organizations and openly taunt and flaunt is proof enough for me that they have no place in a normal society. . They don't need to be suppressed.. they need to be "gone".
( Am I off course here? Did I miss the whole jist of the posts? Sometimes I start on something and get off base) :-\
Since you mentioned the mexican mafia and ms-13. I watched gangland on the History, or Discovery Channel? They are bad news for sure. They scare me more than any of the hate groups, or gangs. Why, because I can't speak the language. What I mean is....if they were discussing an attack on anyone; I wouldn't know what the hell they're talking about to save my own life! I can't make sense of that language....at all!
The one thing that concerns me the most about all these groups is their actions have a direct implications on our 2nd Amendment rights concerning the issue of an Automatic Weapon Ban. Some if not most of these groups got em, and train with them already. It's just like I read somewhere else....If the government bans weapons, only the police and criminals will have them. Truth
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Coroner, I may have mistaken the meaning of your posts, I took it as verging on ideological cleansing similar to what happened in Bosnia. Those who advocate that sort of thing DO NOT belong here. They belong somewhere like Darfur or Rwanda with the rest of their ilk.
You asked "Does the Bill of Rights apply to the Jihad Muslims as well Tom? " If you TRULY believe in the Constitution then YES it does. There ARE however things we CAN use against them,
1)
Make Local, State and federal law enforcement enforce immigration laws
2)
Conspiracy laws, I'll admit I'm not real clear on the technicalities of this but it must be of use against organized groups like Hamas, MS 13, KKK etc.
3)
RICO, while I have often derided the war on drugs and the questionable Constitutionality of the forfeiture laws, the Racketeer Influenced/ Corrupt Organization law (originally passed for use against the Mafia) has definite applications in this situation. Basically it says that if members of a group commit a crime in keeping with the philosophy of the group, then ALL members are guilty of the crime. That would mean that every member of the groups connected to this Ghalani would be guilty of (among other things) the murder of Daniel Pearl. Groups in America connected to Hezbollah are equally guilty of the rocket attacks on Israel.
4)
If these groups are practicing with explosives, and full auto weaponry, those laws should be applied.
These were posted in the training camp thread:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,5678.0.html
The problem is that if there are ways Law enforcement can do anything about it WITH OUT being labeled as discriminating against muslims , they would also have to shut down places like Blackwater and Gunsite.
Got to catch these bas$%rds actually committing crimes. Then take down all the camps that belong to the group with RICO and conspiracy charges.
Catching them with illegal explosives would be legitimate grounds for law enforcement to take them down. Otherwise it would either require Ruby Ridge/Waco type Constitutional violations, or it would have to be "unofficial". Which could set a VERY bad precedent. It's similar to the problem America faced with the German American Bund prior to WWII.
I think that pretty much covers it. If I missed anything I can only blame it on listening to the podcast at the same time.
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Coroner, I may have mistaken the meaning of your posts, I took it as verging on ideological cleansing similar to what happened in Bosnia. Those who advocate that sort of thing DO NOT belong here. They belong somewhere like Darfur or Rwanda with the rest of their ilk.
You asked "Does the Bill of Rights apply to the Jihad Muslims as well Tom? " If you TRULY believe in the Constitution then YES it does. There ARE however things we CAN use against them,
1)
Make Local, State and federal law enforcement enforce immigration laws
2)
Conspiracy laws, I'll admit I'm not real clear on the technicalities of this but it must be of use against organized groups like Hamas, MS 13, KKK etc.
3)
RICO, while I have often derided the war on drugs and the questionable Constitutionality of the forfeiture laws, the Racketeer Influenced/ Corrupt Organization law (originally passed for use against the Mafia) has definite applications in this situation. Basically it says that if members of a group commit a crime in keeping with the philosophy of the group, then ALL members are guilty of the crime. That would mean that every member of the groups connected to this Ghalani would be guilty of (among other things) the murder of Daniel Pearl. Groups in America connected to Hezbollah are equally guilty of the rocket attacks on Israel.
4)
If these groups are practicing with explosives, and full auto weaponry, those laws should be applied.
These were posted in the training camp thread:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,5678.0.html
The problem is that if there are ways Law enforcement can do anything about it WITH OUT being labeled as discriminating against muslims , they would also have to shut down places like Blackwater and Gunsite.
Got to catch these bas$%rds actually committing crimes. Then take down all the camps that belong to the group with RICO and conspiracy charges.
Catching them with illegal explosives would be legitimate grounds for law enforcement to take them down. Otherwise it would either require Ruby Ridge/Waco type Constitutional violations, or it would have to be "unofficial". Which could set a VERY bad precedent. It's similar to the problem America faced with the German American Bund prior to WWII.
I think that pretty much covers it. If I missed anything I can only blame it on listening to the podcast at the same time.
THANK YOU FOR READING IT AGAIN.
But as we discuss cleaning up all the terrorist muslims, let's not forget about cleaning up the garbage we already have in our own back yards. Agreed? While our rights do indeed need to be preserved; the anti this, that, and the other, infringe upon these very rights, whilest they use them to spread hate, fear, and terror to our citizens in anyway they can be heard.
Our rights, setforth in the Constitution are not to be infringed upon. There cannot be intolerance in the belief that these group, clubs, gangs, etc...would not kill innocent citizens to achieve their agenda objectives. If a hate group for example uses a Constitution right like free speech, only to infringe on the Constitutional right against all enemies foreign and domestic; then where is the presidence in the very ink used to pen it?
What I mean is this....
If they use a right to free speech to spread hatred, fear, and anarchy to the masses, why then aren't they infringing on our right to abolish them as an enemy foreign or domestic? If anyone can tell me how, I'm here to be educated?
Clearly most, but not all the hate organizations in the U.S. have origins to another country. But because of our rights, freedoms, technology, and various means of communications; we are being poisoned by them, and our rights exploited. Worse yet, they have the ability and firepower to kill innocents. How can we allow this to go on? These aren't the typical gun enthusiasts who get together with their buddies to go shoot their automatic weapons in the backwoods. They've got an agenda! A reason. A purpose. And I feel as I'm sure others do, that my rights are being infringed upon by them being allowed to exist at all. Hence the quote, "against all enemies, foriegn and domestic". Thanks for writing back Tom. As always, your comments are appreciated. We will have misunderstandings. But it is a decent man who seeks the truth, rather than a cause.
I apologize for my writing ability concerning my post topic. Maybe I could have explained myself clearer, without the sarcasm. But I am thankful that you read it over again, and seen what my meaning was within it.
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THANK YOU FOR READING IT AGAIN.
But as we discuss cleaning up all the terrorist muslims, let's not forget about cleaning up the garbage we already have in our own back yards. Agreed? While our rights do indeed need to be preserved; the anti this, that, and the other, infringe upon these very rights, whilest they use them to spread hate, fear, and terror to our citizens in anyway they can be heard.
Our rights, setforth in the Constitution are not to be infringed upon. There cannot be intolerance in the belief that these group, clubs, gangs, etc...would not kill innocent citizens to achieve their agenda objectives. If a hate group for example uses a Constitution right like free speech, only to infringe on the Constitutional right against all enemies foreign and domestic; then where is the presidence in the very ink used to pen it?
What I mean is this....
If they use a right to free speech to spread hatred, fear, and anarchy to the masses, why then aren't they infringing on our right to abolish them as an enemy foreign or domestic? If anyone can tell me how, I'm here to be educated?
Clearly most, but not all the hate organizations in the U.S. have origins to another country. But because of our rights, freedoms, technology, and various means of communications; we are being poisoned by them, and our rights exploited. Worse yet, they have the ability and firepower to kill innocents. How can we allow this to go on? These aren't the typical gun enthusiasts who get together with their buddies to go shoot their automatic weapons in the backwoods. They've got an agenda! A reason. A purpose. And I feel as I'm sure others do, that my rights are being infringed upon by them being allowed to exist at all. Hence the quote, "against all enemies, foriegn and domestic". Thanks for writing back Tom. As always, your comments are appreciated. We will have misunderstandings. But it is a decent man who seeks the truth, rather than a cause.
I apologize for my writing ability concerning my post topic. Maybe I could have explained myself clearer, without the sarcasm. But I am thankful that you read it over again, and seen what my meaning was within it.
While I don't personally disagree with your premise, therein lies the two-edged sword of our Constitution. Afterall, defending free speech is easy if you agree with the speaker. What takes real courage is to defend the right of someone to say something at the top of his lungs that you would spend the rest of your life contradicting at the top of your lungs. We can't just allow the excercise of Constitutional rights by those with whom we agree.
And I believe that Tom is right........to allow the government to circumvent the rights of those we oppose opens the door for the government to do the same thing to us.
Bottom line is this: There is no easy answer. We need to be vigilant and be prepared. We need to defend outselves, our loved ones, and our Constitution. Because when (not if) the SHTF that's all we have and that's all we can do.
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The first amendment (as Rastus points out) is not there to protect what we AGREE with or approve of. All we can do is prosecute violations of the law. You can not legislate tolerance in the intolerant, the socialists have been trying it for years and all it does is create more BS laws. Hatred, and distrust of those from outside your "group" is part of our animal nature and has been the norm since the dawn of time. in our own country it started with the Puritans, (some of the least tolerant people of their time) and continued through the Salem witch trials. We have all heard of the "Reign of terror" imposed in France and Russia after their revolutions, you think that did not happen here as well ? How do you think New Brunswick got settled ? Former Tories were driven from their homes after Yorktown.
There will always be groups dedicated to crime and/or bigotry, that's just the nature of the beast.