Author Topic: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....  (Read 5842 times)

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.....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« on: March 17, 2009, 03:50:16 AM »
With the world around us turning to shit, I got to thinking about Rastus' topic entitled "Homeland Terrorists Training Camps".  As if we don't have enough problems around the world; we, people of a "free nation" are more part of the problem concerning Terrorism, than I had previously believed.

Because we live in a country where our government has granted us certain rights and liberties... individual freedoms of religion and speech, have become poisoned by groups and individuals, whose governmental opposition, hatreds of certain ethnicity's, and socialistic retardedness, is based on, and primarily focused around a religious ideology to fuel their agendas.

You give a bible to a common man, he will read it to nurture is heart and soul.  You give that same book to a religious fanatic, and he'll teach that common man to believe everything he is taught.  And subsequently, the common man isn't nurturing his heart and soul anymore....he's learned to believe in an ideology that takes him from being a solitary spiritual man, and turned him into a right fighting, agenda chaser.  And we've allowed it to go on. 

It starts with some one's crazy notion about this, that, or the other.  But soon they've convinced their friends, then the neighbors, and their friends, and so on.....Finally, you have a group as small as a gang of 5-10; to a group of 500-1000. 

Remember the soldiers who came back from WWII?  It started out as a group of vets riding motorcycles together as friends for fun.  Then they said, let's start a club.  And now we've gone from the Boozefighters, to the Hell's Angels, the Outlaws, the Bandidos, the Mongols, etc...  After the Civil War it was the KKK.  Now there's the KKK, skinheads, neo-nazis, national socialists movement, white nationists, black separatists {nation of islam}, national alliance, the aryan nation, united southern brotherhood, neo-confederate, holocaust denialists, european-american unity and rights organizations, the crips, the bloods, the mexican mafia, the texas syndicate, the new black panther party, and the list goes on and on.....

If we've, and I mean WE, have allowed these hate groups {who I believe to be terrorists just as the Jihadists} to exist in our own backyards, year after year, decade after decade; then why shouldn't WE have any expectations to allow the Jihadists as well?  Remember the Oklahoma City Bombing in 95'?  Sure you do.  It wasn't Jihad then, was it? 

Don't get me wrong, I despise all cowards who hide behind self-proclaimed religious extremists, who kill innocent citizens of our nation in any form.  I just don't see the difference between them and all the other hate groups?  Holocaust Denialists?  Give me a break!  What the hell did our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers do over there then?  But they're are groups in our country teaching this shit!  It's a slap in the face, to the bravery of all the soldiers who died there.  But we allow these groups to exists.  Neo-Nazis?  Adolf Hitler was a mentally defective, ego-maniac, that murdered millions of innocents because he believed they were the root of all things evil, and they were not of aryan ancestry.  They were different.  They're religious beliefs were different.  Adolf Hitler decided to kill them.  And then the coward killed himself. 

How can all these Neo-Nazi idiots follow the ideology of a murderous coward?  Better yet, why has our government allowed it?  I'll tell you why....Because we have some government leaders who are members, if not only affiliated, or followers themselves of these groups.  David Duke ring a bell?  Others whom I cannot name, unless I want an all expense-paid vacation in a Federal Penitentiary.  Lawmakers and LEOs alike, sympathize with these groups in part or whole as to the principles for existence throughout the country.  It's a sad reality people!  It's not a matter of whether they should be allowed to exist any longer.  It's a question of national security.  They are what they have always been....Terrorists! 

A plague, an illness, a disease, or whatever mental disability you want as a label for it.  "IT" is not just the rantings of poor, uneducated, rural folk.  Most of these hate groups have financially sponsored memberships.  Strength in numbers.  There are groups like the KKK, the skinheads, and neo-nazis nationwide.  Small groups in specific locations.  That's where it all begins.  Just like our military installations throughout the country. 

The "Turner Diaries" written by National Alliance Founder, William Pierce, is what many believe to be their hatred filled handbook to an all out race war.  Freedom of speech to promote anarchy.  Just another example of how our rights under the Constitution are exploited.   

Many of you may sympathize with anyone of these groups in part or whole.  I don't know?  Does that make you a terrorists?  Does the hatred you've been taught by one of these groups, make you a threat to me, because I'm different than you?  Because I might be a Christian, Catholic, Jew, Hindu, Buddhists, or a Baptists?  If I'm not beating on the door of your home, or standing on a pulpit preaching my rhetoric to you.  Why would you care what I believe, if I'm not trying to kill you because of it?
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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2009, 05:53:14 AM »
Coroner, I think you're living in the past somewhat. Do the skinheads and KKK exist? Yes. I have heard that even today there is a town in Texas along the Mississippi river that is run by neo-Nazis and unless you're family, you do NOT stop there.

I see much greater threats coming from more modern sources, though.

First, gummints do not grant us rights and liberties. We - you and I and the skinheads and normal citizens - have those rights by being born. Gummints only curtail rights and liberties with their powers. When they are out of control - that is a major threat.

Foreign nationals whose sole mission is to kill us and subvert our way of life are a much greater threat than the groups you seem to focus on. Those mostly white groups are criminal groups, and various LEO agencies have been after them for decades with various measures of success. Their lack of complete success is a threat to us, especially when the SHTF and prison populations are released.

Some of the foreign nationals are criminal groups, such as the Mexican Mafia and MS-13. These groups need to be obliterated, and our gummint has let us down in this regard with the open border on the south. This is a threat.

The foreign nationals that should be concerning us the most are the ones who are at war with us. OK City, World Trade Center, and hundreds of other failed and successful attacks tell us that they will not stop, only adapt - until they are destroyed. Utterly. Until they are, they will remain the predominant threat of our era. And it is not a LEO problem, it is a war problem.

I also need to call out your all-too-easy transition from reading the Bible to religious fanaticism to white (mostly) supremacy to criminality. And the transition from religiosity to hiding behind this religious facade. I see this as a simplistic and anti-religion screed that misses the point. It is not religion in general - which yes, has been abused throughout history. Remember Tom Lehrer's satircal piece that included the line:

"The Catholics hate the protestants, and the protestants hate the Catholics, and the muslims hate the hindus, and everyone hates the Jews."?

And no one is "hiding" behind religion. It has to do with the nature of the so-called religion. The foreign nationals' religion demands their behavior, it is not a religion of peace, but is founded on conquest and forced conversion - or death. As someone once so glibly put it - a Christian will die so that your soul may live; a Muslim will kill you for his own soul.

This is a much greater threat to Western Civilization than the white supremacists and drug gangs. And allowing your focus to be diverted to something so minimal and away from a serious threat is in an of itself a threat as well, since it will prepare you for the last fight, not the coming one.

Sorry, not "one", we have a number - out of control gummint, foreign nationals, a destroyed economy, and others.
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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2009, 06:57:22 AM »
Because we live in a country where our government has granted us certain rights and liberties... individual freedoms of religion and speech,

While not the main thesis, Coroner, I can't let this one slip by.   It is, of itself, a major point.

Government granted us nothing.   These freedoms are unalienable and exist outside of any government.  The Declaration of Independence states that these Rights were bestowed on all people by a higher authority and that government is created by the people and the people give the government "powers" not rights.    Rights and power flow from the people to the government not the other way around.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Note also the wording in the Bill of Rights does not "grant" freedoms but assumes those freedoms are universal, that they preexist, and the BOR prohibits the government from infringement.    Here are some of the key phrases from the Bill of Right

Congress shall make no law
the right of the people
the right of the people....shall no be infringed
The right of the people....shall not be violated
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tumblebug

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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2009, 09:33:32 AM »






 Catch   Freedom for all   22   or    Freedom for none    till they break the law of the land.

THE CORONER

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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 10:25:54 PM »
Coroner, I think you're living in the past somewhat. Do the skinheads and KKK exist? Yes. I have heard that even today there is a town in Texas along the Mississippi river that is run by neo-Nazis and unless you're family, you do NOT stop there.

Click this link, and you can answer your own question about the existence of the KKK, and the skinheads.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp
They are nationwide Pathfinder.


I see much greater threats coming from more modern sources, though.

First, gummints do not grant us rights and liberties. We - you and I and the skinheads and normal citizens - have those rights by being born. Gummints only curtail rights and liberties with their powers. When they are out of control - that is a major threat.

I know my rights under the Constitution, as well as the role of our government.  It's you that didn't get it!  It was sarcasm sir!

Foreign nationals whose sole mission is to kill us and subvert our way of life are a much greater threat than the groups you seem to focus on. Those mostly white groups are criminal groups, and various LEO agencies have been after them for decades with various measures of success. Their lack of complete success is a threat to us, especially when the SHTF and prison populations are released.

Wrong Sir!  The truth was revealed after the WACO disaster.  The problem with hate groups and religious nut jobs is public perception.  That's why the Feds messed it up so bad.....Do we go?  Do we wait them out?  No one including our Federal Bureau of Investigation had a clue as how to handle the Branch Davidians.  They couldn't tell the difference between a hostage and a hostile there.  As a result of this mess, the public opinion of the incident was negative towards the Feds.  So now, they're not a police force stomping out hate groups; their babysitters!  They're reactive, not proactive.

Some of the foreign nationals are criminal groups, such as the Mexican Mafia and MS-13. These groups need to be obliterated, and our gummint has let us down in this regard with the open border on the south.  This is a threat.

So now we get to pick and choose are Terrorists groups?  The Mexican Mafia and the MS-13, have more American-born members,  than all of Latin America.  "These groups need to be obliterated, and our gummint has let us down in the regard with the open border on the south." ............ You said that!  Now, tell us about the "foreign" nationals again?  Do your homework before you try to lay that bag of garbage on us.  What are the skinheads then?  They started in Europe, not here.  How about the Neo-Nazis?  Didn't start here as well.  Now that "you're" history lesson is over, tell us about those foreign nationals again?

The foreign nationals that should be concerning us the most are the ones who are at war with us. OK City, World Trade Center, and hundreds of other failed and successful attacks tell us that they will not stop, only adapt - until they are destroyed. Utterly. Until they are, they will remain the predominant threat of our era. And it is not a LEO problem, it is a war problem.

Now that we know all about foreign nationals, we can get rid of them.  Right Pathfinder?  Everything you said in the above paragraph is my point exactly.  But your belief of "whom" the foreign nationals are seems to be the real question?

I also need to call out your all-too-easy transition from reading the Bible to religious fanaticism to white (mostly) supremacy to criminality. And the transition from religiosity to hiding behind this religious facade. I see this as a simplistic and anti-religion screed that misses the point. It is not religion in general - which yes, has been abused throughout history. Remember Tom Lehrer's satircal piece that included the line:

Who said anything about religious fanaticism to white (mostly) supremacy?  I said:

You give a bible to a common man, he will read it to nurture is heart and soul.  You give that same book to a religious fanatic, and he'll teach that common man to believe everything he is taught.  And subsequently, the common man isn't nurturing his heart and soul anymore....he's learned to believe in an ideology that takes him from being a solitary spiritual man, and turned him into a right fighting, agenda chaser.  And we've allowed it to go on.
  So please don't try to change, or put words in my mouth I never said.

"The Catholics hate the protestants, and the protestants hate the Catholics, and the muslims hate the hindus, and everyone hates the Jews."?

I'm not taking any account to anyone writing a "satire" on any discussion of terrorism.  And the above satire piece isn't how I, or a lot of other people feel about the religions mentioned either.

And no one is "hiding" behind religion. It has to do with the nature of the so-called religion. The foreign nationals' religion demands their behavior, it is not a religion of peace, but is founded on conquest and forced conversion - or death. As someone once so glibly put it - a Christian will die so that your soul may live; a Muslim will kill you for his own soul.

Well, who said it?  You made that up right?  Let's not confuse the readers on your expertise in the ideologies of the Muslim religion.  Not all Muslims are Jihadists sir.

This is a much greater threat to Western Civilization than the white supremacists and drug gangs. And allowing your focus to be diverted to something so minimal and away from a serious threat is in an of itself a threat as well, since it will prepare you for the last fight, not the coming one.

Not that it bears anything in relation to my topic; but the white supremacists, drug gangs, etc....are exactly why we have gun bans on automatic weapons sir.  They are the criminal threat to your right to one of these guns if you wanted one as a lawful citizen.

Sorry, not "one", we have a number - out of control gummint, foreign nationals, a destroyed economy, and others.

Agreed.  We have many.  But my topic was about this, not that.

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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:31:13 AM »

THE CORONER

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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 10:38:16 PM »
While not the main thesis, Coroner, I can't let this one slip by.   It is, of itself, a major point.

Government granted us nothing.   These freedoms are unalienable and exist outside of any government.  The Declaration of Independence states that these Rights were bestowed on all people by a higher authority and that government is created by the people and the people give the government "powers" not rights.    Rights and power flow from the people to the government not the other way around.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Note also the wording in the Bill of Rights does not "grant" freedoms but assumes those freedoms are universal, that they preexist, and the BOR prohibits the government from infringement.    Here are some of the key phrases from the Bill of Right

Congress shall make no law
the right of the people
the right of the people....shall no be infringed
The right of the people....shall not be violated


You didn't get it either.  Sorry.  It was sarcasm.  I know our government didn't "grant" us "certain" rights and liberties.  Nice to see you paying attention though.
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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 10:44:04 PM »
 Coroner, If you advocate destroying groups of people like the Branch Davidians, KKK, Neo Nazis,Jews, Salvation army or any one else, just because you don't agree with them you do not belong here. You should go to some sh!thole like Serbia. Because YOU are part of the problem. If you actually believe that crap you do not, and never will "get it".
Lesson number only The Bill of Rights applies to ALL citizens be they gentle geniuses or malevolent a$$holes.
Deal with it.

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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 11:34:37 PM »
Coroner, If you advocate destroying groups of people like the Branch Davidians, KKK, Neo Nazis,Jews, Salvation are or any one else, just because you don't agree with them you do not belong here. You should go to some sh!thole like Serbia. Because YOU are part of the problem. If you actually believe that crap you do not, and never will "get it".
Lesson number only The Bill of Rights applies to ALL citizens be they gentle geniuses or malevolent a$$holes.
Deal with it.

I don't hink he's saying that. I think the point was to resond to some earler posts in "homeland terroist camps" thread that had lot of folsk declaring all muslims the enemy and esentially writing them out of 1A protection. I think Coroner is pointing out, correctly that we need to be selective about who we feel threatend by and understand there's a lot Americans that we need to worry about, not just foriegn muslims. After all OK city was two white supremacist rednecks in a Ryder truck, and pre-911, it was our deadliest act of terror. Likewise the DC sniper was just a pissed off black supremacist. I could be wrong but this was my take on what was written.
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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2009, 11:45:03 PM »
Well fightingquaker13 .. I was in the middle of writing and stopped to answer an e-mail ..got myself something to drink..and came back in and you had posted kinda what I was writing. So I just deleted what I was clumsily trying to say in less than 50,000 words..  ;D
That is pretty much how I interpreted and read  what Coroner wrote...

Maybe I'm the one that don't get it. And I might be off base also...But I agree that American soil has a lot of enemies right here that we need to be on top and aware of...plus those who are not of American ancestry. 
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tombogan03884

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Re: .....against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2009, 11:56:02 PM »
That's what I've been SAYING. If you catch them breaking the law, fine kill them or lock them up . But If they are not CAUGHT breaking the law then any excuse used to suppress them is just as valid against the rest of us.

 

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