The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Green Mountain Gringo on March 25, 2009, 12:52:20 AM
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Recently while poking around a few gun shops I pondered the virtues of the 44 Special. I've enjoyed the .38 special and the .357 magnum and gotta figure the .44 special is a grand old step up from both of these. I've fired a .44 magnum and know that while it's manly (and fun) to shoot, it ain't no carry weapon for me.
So.... what're your thoughts on the .44 Special.....
...and do you have a favorite model? S&W? Charter Arms?
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MB loves his Charter.
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I love my S&W 629 4". Even though it's a .44mag, it's smooth with .44 specials.
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It s a good round, but personally I wouldn't buy a pistol chambered in this round. Its not going to do much for you defence wise that a .357 won't and the .357 is going to be, on average lighter and a lot cheaper to shoot. I do think the .44 special has its place and that is as a defensive round in a .44 mag. The muzzle flip and risk of overpenetration makes the mag questionable for personal carry. Loading with .44 specials solves both problems. Plus you've still got the mag right there if you ever do decide to take up hand gun hunting or steel target shooting. I just don't see the advantage in going for pure .44 special in a full sized revolver. Its like buying a full sized .38 as opposed to a .357. Why would you limit yourself for no practical gain?
fightingquaker13
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You didn't give many details of why or where you intend to use it, but a .44 mag that can also use the .44 spl loads is the best "all around" pistol in my eyes.
I'm of "a size" that I can carry a 44 CCW and living in the cooler Pacific NW helps. I previously carryed a S&W 29 with 5" barrel that was way accurate and with the Hogue grips was easily controled even with full house 44 mags. Since I shoot SASS, I now carry a Ruger Blackhawk 6 1/2" barrel, with 44spl's hollow-points or go hiking in the Olympics (black bear country) with 44 mags on board.
With down-loaded 44 spl's it's easy to shoot (much easier than .357mag's), but that HUGE .44 HP will take down anything on two or four legs.
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OMG..don't get me started!
.44 Specials are perhaps more like a virus than a round...you get sucked into the 44SPECIALVORTEX and you're doomed...doomed, I tell you!
Short story, it's a great round — high intrinsic accuracy, amazing versatility in loadings — from puffball cowboy loads up to velociraptor-thwackers — forgiving for reloaders, maybe one of the best self-defense rounds ever made (it is a proven quantity over a century). The round has a semi-religious following among great experts like John Tappan, the guys on the various single action boards, me, etc.
The down side over similarly versatile rounds — the .357 or the .44 Magnum — is a smaller base of guns chambered in the caliber, fewer loaded rounds available and relatively expensive reloading components (although the price break between cheap components and expensive components has substantially narrowed, and not for the better).
In terms of viable self-defense revolvers in .44 Special, you've oretty much down to 2, the Charter Arms Bulldog and the S&W 396 Night Guard:
http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Bulldog_14420.html
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&pageSize=10&published=1&beginIndex=0&resultType=2&attributeName1=Caliber&attributeValue1=.44SP&attributeValueType1=STRING&attributeValueOperator1=EQUAL&isFirearm=Y
I do indeed like my Charter...it has been rebuilt by Mag-Na-Port into a super little revolver, and now that i can get Crimson Trace LaserGrips for it, it's about perfect.
http://www.magnaport.com/
http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/CharterArms/tabid/356/Default.aspx
The greatest .44 Special carry gun ever made, IMHO, is the S&W "humpback" 296 AirLite Ti. It is also, parenthetically, maybe the ugliest revolver ever made, which might explain why nobody ever bought one. It kicks fiercely and is limited to 200-gr or less bullets (although I have shot many heavy bullet/lighter loads in the gun without any problem of the bullets backing out...your results may vary):
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg107-e.htm
The modern S&W 624 or any of the M24 older variants all-steel guns are superb revolvers, but if I was going to carry the heavy steel gun anyway, I'd default to the .44 Magnum version and carry the first cylinder-full with 200-gr .44 Special SilverTips/Corbon DPX and a spare speedloader/Tuff strip with .44 Magnum velociraptor-killers like the Buffalo Bore 255-gr Keith loads or Winchester 250-gr Platinum hunting loads. I've use my 3-inch 629 Magnum as a car gun using exactly that loading strategy...
Michael B
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Purchased a Charter in .44 just to have one in the collection and the "Bulldog" is supposedly a legend. Michael is right, you get sucked in to the .44 special vortex. I loved it so much I went out and bought a Thunder Ranch S&W in .44 special shortly thereafter. I love it! Shot a USPSA Ipsc/Steel Challenge intro course with the TR and loved it. Mild recoil and great performance and wow what a big bullet for self defense. Gotta love it, just be careful not to get too close, the vortex is out there waiting for you to get just a little too close and then suck you in!
Wheelgun
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What will a .44 spl do that a Colt .45 won't? BIG round, low recoil and if ya use a Ruger you can load 'em to velociraptor mode real easy. ;D
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What will a .44 spl do that a Colt .45 won't? BIG round, low recoil and if ya use a Ruger you can load 'em to velociraptor mode real easy. ;D
Make people send M bane nasty emails for calling it Long colt.
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Make people send M bane nasty emails for calling it Long colt.
Hey! I'm standing up for Mr. bane here, .45lc is the historically correct name for the round. Its also a good way to differentiate between .45acp and, god help us, .45 GAP (even I haven't drunk that much kool aid).
FQ13
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I've always wanted a dedicated .44 Blackhawk........If Haz'll just send me one of his .357 3-screws, then I'll just send it on up to Hamilton Bowen...... ;)
But, I do love shooting .44 specials in my magnum Super Blackhawks.......almost no recoil at all....there's just so much versatility in the mag/spl combo. As others have said, you can load cowboy loads to 280gr thumb-busters in one cylinder.
Too much fun..... :D
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Once again the cat has it right! The .45 Colt is a great round and it can be loaded up or down to suit your needs but there is just something "special" swirling around the .44 Special. Maybe it's just me and too many Taffin, articles but it is cool!
Anyway, hope things are going better for you Cat, glad to see you are rising from the ashes so to speak!
Wheelgun
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One "advantage" I've seen in my area, .45 Long Colt reloading components are scarce/none. Yet I'm finding .44 spl stuff on the shelf ;D
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Was in a shop the other day and something happened like Love At First Site ::) I laid my eyes on a Ruger Redhawk Alaskan in .44 Mag.
OH, My God.
It's still there at the shop...where it'll probably stay until some young buck with Seven and a Half Bills comes along.
I don't NEED it...it's for shooting bear and boar and real real real bad guys.
I DON'T need it.
I don't.
Seriously.
Wait, what's that sound? Is that a bear outside???
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Sure ya do, I've been to Vermont, they got bears and stuff! Really scary rabbits too!
Buy it, go ahead......I dare ya.....
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Sure ya do, I've been to Vermont, they got bears and stuff! Really scary rabbits too!
Buy it, go ahead......I dare ya.....
If you're afraid of bears, which I know you're not, as only a candy ass would be intimidated a a 700 pound carnivorous (possibly rabid) animal lurking JUST OUTSIDE HIS DOOR. I would reccomend you go with the .454 casull model. It'll let you shoot .45lc (the Correct designation!) when you're sober and the .454 when you're having a really bad day. Plus range reports will amuse the hell out of the rest of us. Remember I'm a professor and know what what I'm doing, and I say, Grasshopper, that anything worth doing is worth overdoing. Remember the lessons of the great Dr. Thompson, no one ever got any style points for being half crazy. ;D
fightingquaker13 who is being the voice of Satan Just Do It
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I would reccomend you go with the .454 casull model. It'll let you shoot .45lc (the Correct designation!) when you're sober and the .454 when you're having a really bad day. Plus range reports will amuse the hell out of the rest of us. Remember I'm a professor and know what what I'm doing, and I say, Grasshopper, that anything worth doing is worth overdoing. Remember the lessons of the great Dr. Thompson, no one ever got any style points for being half crazy. ;D
fightingquaker13 who is being the voice of Satan Just Do It
OK.......I gotta go lay down...
(http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ruger_sup_redhawk_alaskan.jpg)
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I would go for the Alaskan! Or I would buy a Smith and Wesson Model 21 or 24 and have the barrel shortened to 2 1/2 inches. .44 special is a great cartridge.
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Hey! I'm standing up for Mr. bane here, .45lc is the historically correct name for the round. Its also a good way to differentiate between .45acp and, god help us, .45 GAP (even I haven't drunk that much kool aid).
FQ13
WRONG! There was the .45 Schofield and the 45 Colt then came the 45 acp. So IDIOTS started calling the 45 Colt a 'long colt' to differentiate. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A .45 LONG COLT!
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WRONG! There was the .45 Schofield and the 45 Colt then came the 45 acp. So IDIOTS started calling the 45 Colt a 'long colt' to differentiate. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A .45 LONG COLT!
Thats exactly my point Haz.Because the Schofeild and the .45 colt were co-temperanious and shared the same .45 name, ammo makers, gun makers and owners refered to the .45 colt as long colt. In my view the common sense of a whole generation gives legitimacy to this designation. After all a zillion cartridge boxes, advertising fliers and general parlance can't be wrong. I know its a small nit to pick, but as an academic, its what I get paid to do. :-[ The point is, that by virtue of common usage in the relevant period,I'm going with long colt as definative.
fightingquaker13 who is going to look under the bed for an honest job
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I know folks that will hear "Colt 45" and think 1911 and 45ACP. So saying 45 "Long Colt" helps those poor souls realize you mean Colt SAA type.
Poo-tah-toes & Po-ta-tos ;D
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Colt does use the .45 LC designator on their Single Action Army revolvers...
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/saarmy45LC.asp
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Thats exactly my point Haz.Because the Schofeild and the .45 colt were co-temperanious and shared the same .45 name, ammo makers, gun makers and owners refered to the .45 colt as long colt. In my view the common sense of a whole generation gives legitimacy to this designation. After all a zillion cartridge boxes, advertising fliers and general parlance can't be wrong. I know its a small nit to pick, but as an academic, its what I get paid to do. :-[ The point is, that by virtue of common usage in the relevant period,I'm going with long colt as definative.
fightingquaker13 who is going to look under the bed for an honest job
And because people now say 'axe' instead of ask and 'liberry' in stead of libRary that makes it right??
It is the .45 COLT, .45 ACP (or ap) and the .45 Schofield!
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Colt does use the .45 LC designator on their Single Action Army revolvers...
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/saarmy45LC.asp
Yes, NOW they do because people couldn't be bothered to learn the difference! Clips magazines who cares? Assault weapon learn it, love it. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes, NOW they do because people couldn't be bothered to learn the difference! Clips magazines who cares? Assault weapon learn it, love it. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haz, How is the Nitro supply holding out ? Looks like you might need one.
Or a Tranquilizer dart ;D
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Tom, I think you might get what I'm saying. We (gun culture) get all in a bunch over 'high cap magazines' and 'assault weapons' when they are used, yet we can't even get our own nomenclature correct!
There is no Long Colt or Hi cap mags, and there is a diff between clips and mags and auto and semi auto mean things!
We need to clean up our act!
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Tom, I think you might get what I'm saying. We (gun culture) get all in a bunch over 'high cap magazines' and 'assault weapons' when they are used, yet we can't even get our own nomenclature correct!
There is no Long Colt or Hi cap mags, and there is a diff between clips and mags and auto and semi auto mean things!
We need to clean up our act!
Need a little cat nip, pal? ;D
I believe you are correct, from all I've ever read on the history of such.
But hell, I've been wrong before too. ;)
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Tom, I think you might get what I'm saying. We (gun culture) get all in a bunch over 'high cap magazines' and 'assault weapons' when they are used, yet we can't even get our own nomenclature correct!
There is no Long Colt or Hi cap mags, and there is a diff between clips and mags and auto and semi auto mean things!
We need to clean up our act!
God Haz
You're easier than M'lette to aggravate ;D I was expecting a hairball.
I love this group. ;D
fightingquaker13 giggiling to himself
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God Haz
You're easier than M'lette to aggravate ;D I was expecting a hairball.
I love this group. ;D
fightingquaker13 giggiling to himself
Here....... ;D ;D ;D
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Yes, proper nomenclature is important. Things are given specific names so when one person mentions it every one knows what their talking about. That's part of the problem, not everyone DOES know what they are talking about. For example, I never had any interest in the older rounds,Far as I remember until Cowboy Action shooting got started, if you had a .45 it was ACP, I thought .45 Colt, and .45 Long Colt were different calibers.
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Years ago some centerfire calibers used to be available in both Short and Long versions, just like the .22 rimfire came in both Short and Long versions. But as far as I know there has never been a .45 Short Colt and .45 Long Colt. There's only .45 Colt. If you call it a .45 Long Colt or .45 LC, you're calling it by the wrong name. Just because some gun and ammo companies started calling it that too doesn't make them right. There's no such thing as a muzzle BREAK that screws onto a gun barrel either. I see them for sale all the time, but that still doesn't make it right.
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Gentlmen,
The thread reads "44 Special .. your thoughts".
Every time I hear US argue over petty stuff, I hear Pelosi, Schummer, Kennedy and friends giggling.
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Gentlmen,
The thread reads "44 Special .. your thoughts".
Every time I hear US argue over petty stuff, I hear Pelosi, Schummer, Kennedy and friends giggling.
No you don't, because fightingquaker13 is giggiling too loudly.
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Arguments..?
Heck, I thought it was just the 'normal' case of everyone with an opinion stating it in the first couple of pages and then spiraling downward into childish lunacy.
;D ;D ;D
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Yeppers ;D :P
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Yeppers ;D :P
Sig,
With the looks of you and yer lovely lady I KNOW you understand 'friendly arguments' ESPECIALLY when ya can make jokes at the same time!
;D
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(http://morethananelectrician.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/catfud.jpg?w=500&h=403)
One of my favorite cartoons before I found out how much fun cats were ;D
My box of Ultramax ammo for the revolver says 45 Colt. So does the Magtech ammo.
Q: anyone with any experience using the Magtech offering? Magtech claims 'superior performance'.
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And now add the 45 GAP to the group. ;D ;D ;D
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This is my Ruger Blackhawk (50th Anniversary) .44mag, but it shoots .44 SPL loads like a mild 38spl. ;D
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/7738254-md.jpg
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(http://morethananelectrician.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/catfud.jpg?w=500&h=403)
One of my favorite cartoons before I found out how much fun cats were ;D
My box of Ultramax ammo for the revolver says 45 Colt. So does the Magtech ammo.
Q: anyone with any experience using the Magtech offering? Magtech claims 'superior performance'.
Q: Ever heard a company lay claim to an INFERIOR product ?
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This is my Ruger Blackhawk (50th Anniversary) .44mag, but it shoots .44 SPL loads like a mild 38spl. ;D
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/7738254-md.jpg
Very nice lookin' shooter there, SIG229....... I really like those stocks.
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Hello. To me, it is a dilemma like "Ginger or Mary Ann?" (Just kidding!)
I actually am fond of both .44 Special and .45 Colt revolvers. At the present time, I own waaaay too few of either, having so foolishly let several examples in each caliber "get away". Right now I own but one Taurus Model 431 3" in .44 Special along with a S&W Model 24 w/6.5" bbl and solitary 4" S&W Mountain Gun in .45 Colt.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/RugerGP100Taurus431gray.jpg)
Here is my 431 (bottom) with my 3" Ruger GP100. (I wish Ruger would offer that very configuration in a 5-shot .44 Special?)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/NewSWM24ammorock1.jpg)
This is my only S&W Model 24 and is my favorite S&W revolver just to shoot, a V E R Y close second being a Model 14. This revolver was legally-used to "harvest" (kill) Texas whitetail deer in a state-sanctioned management program. Using 240-gr. SWC handloaded to just under 1000 ft/sec, or 180-gr. Hornady XTP's at about 1150 ft/sec, no deer required more than one shot. Either load offered "plenty" and only "sure" shots were taken; any doubt whatsoever and the shot was passed. I killed a total of 7 deer with that revolver, the farthest shot being right at 27 yards, broadside and the deer standing still.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/MGRockleavesfrnt1.jpg)
This S&W Mountain Gun in .45 Colt has been just a peach of a fun revolver. I've taken a few deer with this one as well, usually using a 250-gr. SWC at about 900 ft/sec. Probably the most "potent" thing I've shot through it has been Corbon's DPX round, but its main "diet" remains handloaded SWC's at about 900 ft/sec or so. They group plenty tightly enough for me and are potent enough to handle anything in Texas that might need "handling" in my opinion. I have been unable to tell any difference in effect on whitetails from about 85-lbs to about 140-lbs when hit with any of the mentioned .45 Colt or .44 Special loads. When smacking the animal just behind the shoulder, about 1/3 of the way from the bottom of the chest cavity, they jump, run no more than 50 yards or so (usually less) and fall. A few have run right into trees, which might indicate that blood loss was already bringing on vision-failure. Keep in mind that a deer can cover this short distance in but a few seconds, waaaaay less than the "dead man's 10 seconds".
Between the two cartridges, I prefer the .44 Special but by a very narrow margin. I cannot really offer anything all that logical as to why...only that I do. That said, I sure wouldn't whine if the "Gun God" decreed, "No more .44 Specials for you, heathen. You will only shoot these vintage S&W .45 Colt caliber revolvers"...but I am simple-minded and easily amused; I even like .38 Specials!
Best to all.
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Love that Ruger. I don't remember ever seeing a 3" GP100. That looks SHARP.
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Hello, and thanks. It has proven itself to me and I have no issues with it at all.
Best.
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Hello, and thanks. It has proven itself to me and I have no issues with it at all.
Best.
You should. The thing is ugly from the front and obviously unsafe, as well being an eyesore to the general public. I'd go so far as to say its probably a cheap Chinese knockoff. However as a good Christian gentleman I would be willing to take it off your hands and spare you the embarassment of owning such a thing. I'd even do it free of charge, just to prove how strongly I feel about the issue. ;D
fightingquaker13 who is always willing to martyr himself for a worthy cause ;)
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You should. The thing is ugly from the front and obviously unsafe, as well being an eyesore to the general public. I'd go so far as to say its probably a cheap Chinese knockoff. However as a good Christian gentleman I would be willing to take it off your hands and spare you the embarassment of owning such a thing. I'd even do it free of charge, just to prove how strongly I feel about the issue. ;D
fightingquaker13 who is always willing to martyr himself for a worthy cause being a total wanker ;)
Edited for accuracy ;D
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WRONG! There was the .45 Schofield and the 45 Colt then came the 45 acp. So IDIOTS started calling the 45 Colt a 'long colt' to differentiate. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A .45 LONG COLT!
TRUTH...and that's....wait for it...wait for it....The LONG and the SHORT of it.
.45 COLT
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And because people now say 'axe' instead of ask and 'liberry' in stead of libRary that makes it right??
It is the .45 COLT, .45 ACP (or ap) and the .45 Schofield!
My favorite, and worst pet peeve....then for than, and vice versa. Closely followed by effect and affect. There is also..."excape" and "probally" of course "irregardless". UGH. Barbarians.
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Frisco,
I see eye to eye with you on both posts!
;D
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My favorite, and worst pet peeve....then for than, and vice versa. Closely followed by effect and affect. There is also..."excape" and "probally" of course "irregardless". UGH. Barbarians.
And don't forget the ever popular........ "their, there and they're". "Suscriber" bothers me as well.
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Edited for accuracy ;D
Hey! And Again Hey! No need to call a man a wanker when you know he's been jonesing for a Gp100 which are damn hard to find. And seeing a beautiful one like that in a three inch barrel and .45 (flips coin, comes up heads) colt, well what transpired after viewing the postis is no ones business.
FQ13 ;D
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FQ
SOG has some new GP100s for 340.
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FQ
SOG has some new GP100s for 340.
Mucho thanks. That sounds really cheap though. Aren't they running about six bills? I am unfamiliar with SOG. If you could post or send contact info I'be grateful.
FQ13
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http://www.southernohiogun.com/
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Hey Mr. Bane, is that you? What? I didn't say tappin" I said taffin.
What? I didn't say tavin, I said taffin, Taffin, John TAFFIN. Geesh.
::) ;D
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How about "I seen" for "I saw" or "more better".
Great thread on revolvers.
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On grammar and spelling errors, don't forget......"I should have went" instead of "I should have gone"...........and "supposably" instead of "supposedly". Just some pet peeves.
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Maybe we should start another thread on grammer and spelling pet peeves. One thing I've seen a few times lately on forums is "voila" spelled "walla" or something like that.
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Maybe we should start another thread on grammer and spelling pet peeves. One thing I've seen a few times lately on forums is "voila" spelled "walla" or something like that.
Bet it REALLY irks the folks i Voila-Voila Washington ;D
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Maybe we should start another thread on grammer and spelling pet peeves. One thing I've seen a few times lately on forums is "voila" spelled "walla" or something like that.
Is it just me....or is there a preponderence of grammatical errors in ANY thread concerning the .44 Special?
Guess big-bore sixguns just bring out the hick in all of us... ;D
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Grammar?
Sadly, she passed away some years back...
mb
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Grammar?
Sadly, she passed away some years back...
mb
But she was one hell of a shot.... and made the best squirrel stew know to man!
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But she was one hell of a shot.... and made the best squirrel possum and tater stew known to man!
How 'bout now?
8)
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How 'bout now?
8)
Peg, I think you may live a little too far south in Georgia.
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Peg, I think you may live a little too far south in Georgia.
About as far as you can get without running into too many 'Yankees'........... no offense meant to you native Floridians.....
...or to the Yankees that stayed home........... ;D ;D ;D
My Father-in-law thought possum was a delicacy.
Of course, he also though a .44 was 'too much gun'.........perish the thought.
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Around here possums live in the sewers like rats. Not my idea of a delicacy. The ones in the woods may be.
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My Father-in-law thought possum was a delicacy.
Of course, he also though a .44 was 'too much gun'.........perish the thought.
Way to marry up! ;D
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After being deep fat fried in old, scavenged Crisco and bacon fat, possum tastes pretty much like...oh, I don't know...a very old wooden spatula...
mb
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About as far as you can get without running into too many 'Yankees'........... no offense meant to you native Floridians.....
...or to the Yankees that stayed home........... ;D ;D ;D
I live in central Texas.....all y'all are Yankees to me.... ;D
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REAL Yankees only come from 6 states, Me.,NH, Vt. Ma. Cn. and RI.( NY IS NOT PART OF NEW ENGLAND ! It's bad enough with Ma. )
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After being deep fat fried in old, scavenged Crisco and bacon fat, possum tastes pretty much like...oh, I don't know...a very old wooden spatula...
mb
You could cook possum using my GrandPa's old family recipe that he used for carp.
Place carp (or possum) on an old shingle.
Season liberally with salt, pepper, oregano, butter, onions, and bell peppers.
Place in an oven at 350 for two hours, or until good and crisp.
Remove from oven.
Throw out carp (or possum) and eat the shingle.
Maybe if you shoot 'em with the .44 they will be pre-tenderized.
8)
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You could cook possum using my GrandPa's old family recipe that he used for carp.
Place carp (or possum) on an old shingle.
Season liberally with salt, pepper, oregano, butter, onions, and bell peppers.
Place in an oven at 350 for two hours, or until good and crisp.
Remove from oven.
Throw out carp (or possum) and eat the shingle.
Maybe if you shoot 'em with the .44 they will be pre-tenderized.
8)
That was great!
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Why not eat roadkill? I hear that Michelin tenderizers do a great job. ;D