The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: ericire12 on April 06, 2009, 07:41:15 PM

Title: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: ericire12 on April 06, 2009, 07:41:15 PM
http://www.ammoland.com/2009/03/31/smith-wesson-mp-pistol-fifty-thousand-rounds/

Quote
Smith & Wesson M&P Pistol Reaches Goal Of Fifty Thousand Rounds

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. – -(AmmoLand.com)- Smith & Wesson Corp., announced that after eight months of endurance testing conducted by Professional Instructor Todd Louis Green at pistol-training.com, the full-size M&P9 pistol successfully recorded 50,000 rounds.

Throughout the testing, the M&P9 was used by more than 50 people and received only limited maintenance during the evaluation process.

    “Without question, this is the most shooter-friendly gun I’ve ever handled,” said Todd Green, Firearms Instructor and Founder of pistol-training.com. “My goal from the beginning was to put the M&P9 through its paces, not only to measure the endurance of the gun but also to test how the pistol performed in terms of accuracy. The M&P9 clearly exceeded my expectations in both areas and coincidentally has also been responsible for new personal records in a variety of different shooting disciplines. The combination of low bore axis, steel skeleton, and polymer frame helps to reduce recoil and muzzle flip to the point that even new shooters find no challenge in firing the gun both accurately and quickly. In particular, I’ve loaned the gun to students who were struggling with their own pistols and saw immediate improvement in their accuracy, their speed, and their confidence.”

During the testing process, which has been documented by Green on the pistol-training.com website, the M&P received limited maintenance during the testing period. In his commentary, Green writes that it was not uncommon for the pistol to go over 5,000 rounds between cleanings. Accuracy tests were conducted at predetermined intervals and involved a 5-shot group at 25 yards from a seated position on a bench. Initial groups at the beginning of the testing measured an average of 1.46 inches and at the conclusion of the endurance testing had only opened up by ¼ of an inch. Over the course of 50,000 rounds, the M&P9 recorded only two stoppages, both attributed to improper maintenance during the stringent testing as well as two minor part breakages.

In all, the M&P9 amassed 104 total range trips with an average of 559.4 rounds fired during each session. The only changes made to the M&P9 while in Green’s possession included the addition of a Performance Center sear, Warren Tactical 2-dot night sights and Crimson Trace® Lasergrips.

    “This was no doubt an abusive test,” commented Green. “In many cases we went beyond what is considered an industry standard in terms of lack of maintenance. Another important fact is that this pistol was my carry firearm and was on my side throughout the endurance testing. I always had complete confidence in this pistol. I would like to thank Smith & Wesson for not only allowing me the opportunity to test the M&P on my own terms but for manufacturing an advanced pistol that any officer can stand behind. The M&P Pistol Series is one of the top performers in the areas of durability, reliability and accuracy and I think that the results from this test certainly back that position.”


(http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/smith-wesson-mp-pistol-50000-rounds-2.jpg)
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Galeth005 on April 06, 2009, 10:30:29 PM
so hers i my question... how does it stack up against a glock? i dont know much about the m&p, was looking at one a few weeks ago, i like the laser grips for it... but ya anywho anyone have first hand knowledge.. what about parts.. i LOVE the fact that glocks have very few parts... less to break in my opinion
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: mosbear on April 07, 2009, 05:15:32 PM
so hers i my question... how does it stack up against a glock? i dont know much about the m&p, was looking at one a few weeks ago, i like the laser grips for it... but ya anywho anyone have first hand knowledge.. what about parts.. i LOVE the fact that glocks have very few parts... less to break in my opinion

Very few parts:
Slide, barrel, guide rod/return spring assembly and plastic frame. The rest will require an extra effort to separate, although the firing pin can be taken out of the slide without too much effort.
Boring as hell, not a target gun, trigger pull is heavy out of the box. Trigger job to reduce the trigger pull runs $100 on average or could be done by any mechanically inclined person.
Very reliable with any kind of ammo.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: twyacht on April 07, 2009, 06:28:34 PM
ericire! I AM STUNNED this article is from one of the "Glockinators" on this DRTV forum. :o

I am however, NOT surprised by the result of the test. ;)

As a M+P owner, albeit a .40, I am very pleased S&W got this model right. I have had not 1 issue at any time with any ammo.

I previously posted a "minor" test, compared to this one, but had the same result.

The review section here at DRTV  has my review, and it is a great pistol.

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/DSCF1320.jpg)
My group at 25 yds. (Max at the indoor range) with Magtech Ammo.

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/MP.jpg)

Glad to see an "official" result.

Thanks ericire. You put a smile on my face today.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: TAB on April 07, 2009, 06:44:59 PM
lets see,

Things the smith does that the glocks do not.

better gripe angle,
metal sights
adusable back straps.
You don't have to pull the trigger to take the gun apart.
you can get some models with a safety
you can get all models with or with out a mag disconnect.

Things the glock does that the smith does not






 ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: ericire12 on April 08, 2009, 02:37:54 PM
ericire! I AM STUNNED this article is from one of the "Glockinators" on this DRTV forum. :o

M&Ps SUCK........ GLOCKS RULE...... EVERYTHING ELSE IS CRAP....... (HI-POINT SUCKS TOO).... KOOL-AID IS GOOD..... DRINK THE KOOL-AID....... THEN HAVE SOME MORE KOOL-AID........ IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR?
































*JUST GIVING THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!  ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: TAB on April 08, 2009, 02:44:44 PM
M&Ps SUCK........ GLOCKS RULE...... EVERYTHING ELSE IS CRAP....... (HI-POINT SUCKS TOO).... KOOL-AID IS GOOD..... DRINK THE KOOL-AID....... THEN HAVE SOME MORE KOOL-AID........ IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR?
































*JUST GIVING THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!  ;D

You forgot they are perfect.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Timothy on April 08, 2009, 02:51:07 PM
Ericire12...in all seriousness,

If you could not buy a Glock, WOULD you buy and trust your life to an M&P 9C?

I cannot buy a Glock (at least not new) but I can buy every M&P with the heavy trigger pull....not the 6.5# job....

Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: HAWKFISH on April 08, 2009, 03:33:23 PM
well.. that's good but it is still about 130,000 rds short of some of the glocks that have made 150,000...160,000, and yes 170,000rds.. with some of the Glock 9mm's..   So, the M&P's have got a ways to go. But, having said that .. I have repeatedly said that the M&P's are my number 2 choice and they are up there.. almost as good as Glock. 50,000 is good no doubt.  ;)
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Ping on April 08, 2009, 03:39:09 PM
I would buy a Smith and Wesson M&P in a heartbeat if I could not get a Glock. I have two Glocks (My 3rd and 4th owned) and recently purchased a Smith and Wesson M&P9c. I love the trigger pull and extra weight of the M&P along with it's accuracy right there with my Glocks. I originally bought this for my wife and since I bought her the Ruger LCP, I have adopted the M&P. Only regret is the M&P is not .40 or .45. I will buy another M&P in a higher caliber.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: TAB on April 08, 2009, 05:00:09 PM
well.. that's good but it is still about 130,000 rds short of some of the glocks that have made 150,000...160,000, and yes 170,000rds.. with some of the Glock 9mm's..   So, the M&P's have got a ways to go. But, having said that .. I have repeatedly said that the M&P's are my number 2 choice and they are up there.. almost as good as Glock. 50,000 is good no doubt.  ;)


last time I checked, glocks have been around for almost 3 decades, the M&P is what 3 years old?

No glock has made it in to the 6 diget range witn out atleast replacing springs.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Rob10ring on April 08, 2009, 05:48:06 PM
Replacing springs is considered maintenance. I recently replaced the recoil spring assembly on a Glock 23, but only because I wanted to take advantage of the captured spring. The old spring worked fine.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: mosbear on April 08, 2009, 06:16:32 PM
There is one very distinct difference between Glock and S&W MP. Case head is fully supported by the chamber of the S&W MP. Big advantage when one looks at the number of reloads each cartridge can go through.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: twyacht on April 08, 2009, 06:44:47 PM
another feature the M+P has is full ambi slide-stop, and mag release.

very helpful for us "southpaw's" 8)

Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: BAC on April 08, 2009, 06:54:37 PM
Must everything in this forum morph into a discussion about Glocks?   >:( >:( >:( >:(

There, I feel better now. 
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Timothy on April 08, 2009, 07:00:03 PM
No, but this thread started that way.....when you say blue, Eric says Glock, when you say vanilla, Eric says Glock, when you say doorbell, Eric says Glock....see the trend?

Eric started the thread, he's a Glock guy, just ask him! ;)  It was never really about the M&P....it just appeared that way.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: BAC on April 08, 2009, 07:03:30 PM
No, but this thread started that way.....when you say blue, Eric says Glock, when you say vanilla, Eric says Glock, when you say doorbell, Eric says Glock....see the trend?

Eric started the thread, he's a Glock guy, just ask him! ;)  It was never really about the M&P....it just appeared that way.

I say tomato, you say Glock.  I say potato, you say Glock...  Oh, let's call the whole thing off.   ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: PegLeg45 on April 08, 2009, 07:08:00 PM
It slices, it dices, it chops and chunks, it peels and purees ....and it's dishwasher safe!







 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Timothy on April 08, 2009, 07:57:55 PM
I hear that Glock USA just hired the "ShamWOW" guy....







 ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: BAC on April 08, 2009, 08:35:37 PM
I hear that Glock USA just hired the "ShamWOW" guy....







 ;D

(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art4/0327092inside1.jpg)
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: HAWKFISH on April 08, 2009, 08:44:08 PM

last time I checked, glocks have been around for almost 3 decades, the M&P is what 3 years old?

No glock has made it in to the 6 diget range witn out atleast replacing springs.
[/u]

So? I mean what is your point? Did the M&P do 160,000 + rounds? No. Can you name me any other polymer pistol that has had a pistol (not to mention several pistols) that have round counts that high? Whether changing recoil springs or not? I mean we're talking the same gun and barrel.. no parts failures..just replacing the the springs to ensure it functions as designed..all to the tune of 160,000 + rounds and that's not good enough?..  What other pistol can you say or show any proof of making six digits? I mean come on man.  ::). Or is it just because I mention Glock? Makes no difference to me. I've been drinking the Glock Koolaid for years. And I certainly won't ever stop because someone's biggest issue with them is they have to have some recoil springs changed out to shoot 160,000 rounds through the gun with no other problems or issues. Once again, I'm glad I don't live in CA. Crazy people out there.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Hazcat on April 08, 2009, 08:45:53 PM
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art4/0327092inside1.jpg)

Here's a more recent picture.

(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/0327092sham1.jpg)
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Timothy on April 08, 2009, 08:48:11 PM
Is he related to Nick Nolte by any chance?


 ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 08, 2009, 08:49:17 PM
Let me take a wild guess here, DUI or bar fight ?
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on April 08, 2009, 08:54:55 PM
lets see,

Things the smith does that the glocks do not.

better gripe angle,
metal sights
adusable back straps.
You don't have to pull the trigger to take the gun apart.
you can get some models with a safety
you can get all models with or with out a mag disconnect.

Things the glock does that the smith does not
 ;D

My response in the order of your comments:
Doubt it....
So what....
So what....
So what....
So what....
So what....
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: BAC on April 08, 2009, 08:55:40 PM
Let me take a wild guess here, DUI or bar fight ?

Run-in with a hooker.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Hazcat on April 08, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
Run-in with a hooker.

Yep.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0327092sham1.html
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: BAC on April 08, 2009, 08:59:42 PM
lets see,

Things the smith does that the glocks do not.

better gripe angle,
metal sights
adusable back straps.
You don't have to pull the trigger to take the gun apart.
you can get some models with a safety
you can get all models with or with out a mag disconnect.

Things the glock does that the smith does not






 ;D

My optimum gripe angle is 13 degrees, anything beyond that and I complain.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: HAWKFISH on April 08, 2009, 09:04:19 PM
Yep.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0327092sham1.html

Interesting Hazcat..
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: BAC on April 08, 2009, 09:07:57 PM
Here's a more recent picture.

(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/0327092sham1.jpg)

I wonder if he used a Shamwow to clean himself up after she bit him.  Things you won't see on the commercial.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Neon Knight Anubis on April 08, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
I heard the shamwow guy was involved in something but wow, that's pretty violent.

On this whole Glock/M&P thing? Here's my criteria for a good weapon:

Pull trigger, go boom, hit target.

Gee, both of them seem to do that.  ;)
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: HAWKFISH on April 08, 2009, 09:17:11 PM
I wonder if he used a Shamwow to clean himself up after she bit him.  Things you won't see on the commercial.

Well if he did it didn't leave the "Sham-Wow effect!
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: PegLeg45 on April 08, 2009, 10:31:05 PM
My optimum gripe angle is 13 degrees, anything beyond that and I complain.   ;D ;D ;D


Mine's moving away at about 45 degrees from where ever my wife's at when she's pissed off.................   ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Ping on April 08, 2009, 10:47:33 PM
Shamwow guy lost the magic when he did not have is fauxhawk. He got beat down by a hooker in Florida. Hookers are tough in Florida.  ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: mnshooter on April 08, 2009, 11:05:59 PM
http://www.ammoland.com/2009/03/31/smith-wesson-mp-pistol-fifty-thousand-rounds/

(http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/smith-wesson-mp-pistol-50000-rounds-2.jpg)
I would enjoy finding an M&P9 that grouped sub-two inch.  I've tested five, and none would stay inside 5 inches @25Yds.  My G23 or 17 will hang around 3 inches, G21 or G30 will stay at two or less, Kimber basic Custom II will chew one ragged hole; all groups counting every shot every time.   Smith told me that 5" is within their standards.  But it's not five, it's more than five, sometimes 8 or more inches.  I like just about everything about the M&P, added the CT laser grip module, etc., but am disappointed in their accuracy.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: TAB on April 09, 2009, 12:34:52 AM
My response in the order of your comments:
Doubt it....
So what....
So what....
So what....
So what....
So what....

metall is liess likly to break then plastic
There is no such thing as one size fits all.
The safety between the ears is the one most likly to fail.
see above
magdisconnects have saved many many LEOs lives.  Having a choice isalways better then not having one.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: BAC on April 09, 2009, 06:03:35 AM

Mine's moving away at about 45 degrees from where ever my wife's at when she's pissed off.................   ;D

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 09, 2009, 09:31:01 AM
Surprisingly enough, the comment of the day for this thread comes from TAB !   :o

There is no such thing as one size fits all.

And that is the final answer .
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: mosbear on April 09, 2009, 10:01:31 AM
All the details of the S&W 50,000 rds test could be found here

http://pistol-training.com/ (http://pistol-training.com/)

Todd Green is the actual person who put those round down the range.
A lot of useful information on his site overall.
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Rob10ring on April 09, 2009, 06:22:52 PM
another feature the M+P has is full ambi slide-stop, and mag release.

very helpful for us "southpaw's" 8)
Awesome! When I got my new Glock 19 and told my wife it was for her, I didn't expect her to have trouble with the controls. Now I have a story for why we also need a S&W M&P, or a 620, 610, etc..
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Frosty on April 12, 2009, 04:44:36 PM
No Blocks :-X, 2 S&W's M&P's 9c & .45 F/S & love'em
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: ericire12 on April 13, 2009, 08:08:52 PM
Good grief. What has this become
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: twyacht on April 14, 2009, 05:58:28 PM
Good grief. What has this become


You started it.... ::)
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Conagher 45 on April 14, 2009, 07:28:50 PM
First issued weapon was a S&W 66, oh how I loved that wheel gun , then 4 yrs ago they issued me a Glock 17. Quailfied with it, shot it on my own when I didnt have to shoot quaification, the more I shot it the more I disliked it, but I cant give a lodgical reason why, never had a misfeed,misfire, smoke stack or anything else go wrong. That 17 was dependable, accurate (Had to hold 3" high @ 25 yards to drop them in the x-ring on the B-27 target, but I just could not embrace it like a 1911 or my new M&P 9mm. My last issued weapon is the Sig P220 and if it had the DAK trigger I think I could shoot it much better. I have had the thought of buying a Glock 17 for my own and trying to make friends with it but I so far have talked my self out of it every time. Is there any help for this condition? Or am I just hopeless ? :-\
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: ericire12 on April 14, 2009, 07:29:42 PM
You started it.... ::)

But I never even mentioned Glock until you said something about it, and then I was just being a smart ass!
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: Hazcat on April 14, 2009, 07:40:58 PM
But I never even mentioned Glock until you said something about it, and then I was just being a smart ass!

YOU!  Never!  ::)
Title: Re: S&W M&P reaches 50,000 rds
Post by: ericire12 on April 14, 2009, 07:43:10 PM
YOU!  Never!  ::)

Bullseye! ;D