The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Timothy on May 16, 2009, 04:31:29 PM
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Someone made a comment on another post about the machining quaility on Ruger products. I have shot several, handled dozens and owned a couple Ruger firearms including my latest aquisition, the SP101 snubby I just picked up a few weeks ago.
I was sitting here looking the gun over, really taking a hard look at it and must say that I'm impressed with the quality of this little gun. It is completely deburred of sharp edges, the machining of the trigger assembly to the frame is flawless, the fit and finish are flawless, the action is flawless in it's function though stiff as required by MA law. I will get the trigger worked someday but it doesn't really matter as this is a carry gun, not meant to be a plinker.
I make things for a living and have for thirty years and I wish we had people to make parts that fit this well. So, whomever made the comment, don't sell Ruger short on quaility, at least on their revolvers, I don't think Ruger takes a back seat to anyone in that market!
Now to order those puurrrtttyyy grips Haz turned me on too.....
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I've shot a half dozen or so of their M77s as well as Service six and Blackhawk revolvers, and, like Tim I have been in manufacturing for about 20 years including 6 years at Thompson Center. In side by side comparison I have found M77's to show workmanship as good or better than Rem 700.
I know the post you were talking about, I forget who put it up, but they are clueless.
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I know the post you were talking about, I forget who put it up, but they are clueless.
It was TAB
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Speaking of Ruger quailty, how are their pistols? I have owned and either loved or like two of their revolvers, the blackhawk and bearcat, and I enjoyed my mini-14 and love my M77; as Tom says it is every bit as good, if not better than the 700 (maybe I just got lucky with mine, but the action is like glass). I also love my 10-22, so no complaints about quality. How about the SD caliber semis though?
FQ13 who is still full of kool aid (or other substances if the rumors going around are true) and is just asking out of curiosity
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I have owned several Rugers over the years and have been pleased with all except one. I had a GP100 with the hardest trigger pull of any weapon I have owned. I literally could not keep it on target when fired double action. I took it to a smith who smoothed and eased up the trigger to allow accurate shooting.
It was a very well made gun and when the trigger was tweeked became an exceptional shooter.
I would not hesitate to buy a Ruger again. They are tough, well made guns. In fact, I want a Vaquero, now, but my wife makes me sell a gun whenevery I buy a gun. :( Maybe in the fall.
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It was TAB
SNITCH! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I believe it is because of their well earned reputation for quality, they take such a beating when they have a product recall. It would be similar to the reaction Toyota and Mercedes would receive if they had to recall their last two major model introductions. As far as the domestic manufacturers, the reaction would not be so severe because, unfortunately, as everyone expects them to have some problems based upon their history.....
Ruger needs to remember that it is much better for them to take the extra time and get it right than trying to be the first to market. And I hope they did for their AR platform....
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I believe it is because of their well earned reputation for quality, they take such a beating when they have a product recall. It would be similar to the reaction Toyota and Mercedes would receive if they had to recall their last two major model introductions. As far as the domestic manufacturers, the reaction would not be so severe because, unfortunately, as everyone expects them to have some problems based upon their history.....
Ruger needs to remember that it is much better for them to take the extra time and get it right than trying to be the first to market. And I hope they did for their AR platform....
toyota has the number 1 and number 2 least reliable new car/truck on the market right now. As to the mercededs comment... I don't know anyone that does not have thiers in the shop atleast twice a year.
It does not matter what rugers machinging is like, they are not known for having accurate guns or great fit or fishing. No one thinks of ruger as having great machine work.
I have never seen a 1 moa ruger with factor ammo period.
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I have a few Rugers and I'm happy with the quality of the machining on each one.
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+ 1 :D
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The information was for machining quality which should equate to accuracy, Yes?
Question....I don't shoot rifles much any more and never needed to know MOA though I have no problem with the equation or understanding it. How many rifles come off the shelf, without custom shop work and can shoot 1 minute of angle consistantly?
What of breaking in of barrels, etc...equates to accuracy? Other than competition, what real world need, other than long range scout snipers would one need or even care if a rifle could shoot 1/2" groups at 1000 yards (1 MOA @1000 yds = .47")
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The information was for machining quality which should equate to accuracy, Yes?
Question....I don't shoot rifles much any more and never needed to know MOA though I have no problem with the equation or understanding it. How many rifles come off the shelf, without custom shop work and can shoot 1 minute of angle consistantly?
What of breaking in of barrels, etc...equates to accuracy? Other than competition, what real world need, other than long range scout snipers would one need or even care if a rifle could shoot 1/2" groups at 1000 yards (1 MOA @1000 yds = .47")
Actually, my understanding of MOA (and I could about be proven very wrong here, though I did get the cactus thing right) is 1 MOA = 1" at one hundred yards. Something my Ruger M77 .270 will beat shooting seated. I can put three into the bottom of a beer can at that range with 130 gr Rem green box soft points pretty reliably, and I'm not that great a shot. I can hit the can at 200 off an improvised rest (otherwise known as a sand bag on my truck hood), and thats plenty good enough for me with a deer rifle. No complaints about ruger accuracy from me. At least until it comes to the mini 14, where, well they sold 20 round mags for a reason, but still acceptable for 5- 6" at 100yds, but I'll admit that that is pushing it.
FQ13
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Actually, my understanding of MOA (and I could about be proven very wrong here, though I did get the cactus thing right) is 1 MOA = 1" at one hundred yards.
FQ13
Actually 1.047" @ 100 yards and 3.49" @ 1000 (.44 = 1/8 MOA @ 1000)
300' x 2 = 600' x 12" = 7200"
7200" x pi = circumfrence of 22620"
c/360 = 62.63/60 min = 1.047" or 1 moa @100 yards.
I think the bottom of a beer can at 100 yards is close enough for government work! ;D
ps...thanks to my 10th grade geometry teacher.....who'd a thunk I'd ever need to know that stuff after all these years!
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I love my 4 Ruger Blackhawks, Redhawk, single six, Mark II, and 10/22. All are excellent quality.
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The information was for machining quality which should equate to accuracy, Yes?
Question....I don't shoot rifles much any more and never needed to know MOA though I have no problem with the equation or understanding it. How many rifles come off the shelf, without custom shop work and can shoot 1 minute of angle consistantly?
What of breaking in of barrels, etc...equates to accuracy? Other than competition, what real world need, other than long range scout snipers would one need or even care if a rifle could shoot 1/2" groups at 1000 yards (1 MOA @1000 yds = .47")
I really like the quality of the new Hawkeye in 223 and the LCR I bought. I liked the quality put into the SR9 I gave away....I just didn't like the damned 10-1/2 lb trigger after the recall....I would have kept it had I known the sucky trigger was coming back. The 223 trigger isn't bad and the LCR's trigger is really good, I think, for a production snubbie. The LCR cylinder is well machined, everything seems to be timed perfectly and the action is smooth...I stay on target as well as anything else double acting I shoot.
I sure wish they'd make an optional 4-7 lb trigger so I could buy another SR9. Dang I loved that gun...1,500 rounds, nary a failure...shot dirty, shot clean, shot well....Oh well, a friend has it now....Instead I'm carrying a CZ 75 when the LCR isn't in my pocket.
And that Hawkeye...well inside 3/4" at 100 yards from a rest with Winchester Supremes....5 shot group. I have no complaints about the Hawkeye or the trigger that comes with it.....and I really, really, like the controlled round feed. I tend to feed the weapon very slowly whilst watching a target...something I guess I need to train out of...but the controlled round feed solves my past problems of slow feed so I'm really happy with it.
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As to the Ruger not being a 1 moa gun maker if you read the Gunblast review the worst group was 1.75 inches. The smallest was 0.675. with 3 types of ammo shooting under an inch. That is exceptional accuracy in my book especially for a 16 inch barreled semi auto.
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As to the Ruger not being a 1 moa gun maker if you read the Gunblast review the worst group was 1.75 inches. The smallest was 0.675. with 3 types of ammo shooting under an inch. That is exceptional accuracy in my book ecpecially for a 16 inch barreled semi auto.
Good Point!
As too the Mini-14's accuracy...several years ago, actually decades, I had the pleasure of shooting a few hundred rounds from one and managed to put several 30 round mags into a rimfire target at about 200 yards. Not alot of target left when I was done. Plenty accurate for what it was intended for...
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The mini 14 is a prime example of "we need to not measure a tool with a scale it was not intended for." Comparing a mini 14 to a 700 or m79 is like comparing a Bushnell Trophy red dot to an Aim Point or EoTech. All are great tools for what they were intended. However while they were intended to do the same basic job, they aren't intended to do it in the same situation or at the same level of excellence.
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The mini 14 is a prime example of "we need to not measure a tool with a scale it was not intended for." Comparing a mini 14 to a 700 or m79 is like comparing a Bushnell Trophy red dot to an Aim Point or EoTech. All are great tools for what they were intended. However while they were intended to do the same basic job, they aren't intended to do it in the same situation or at the same level of excellence.
Another great point!
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One of the guys I go shooting with has a 1/2 dozen each M77's and Rem 700's The Rugers are consistently giving him one hole groups at 100 yards with hand loads when he has a rem. in the same caliber the accuracy is not QUITE as good (still plenty good enough for what I would want ) Can't comment on the Mini, never shot one, except for the .22 I've NEVER liked their semi auto pistols.
Figures it was TAB, why am I not surprised ?
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I said factory ammo, you can tune handloads so that just about anything to give you 1 moa assuming its not worn out.( talking about bolt action guns)
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I have a number of Rugers and I handled the SR556 yesterday. I'd buy another and another…
I love the SR556, but unless our kind of people mobilize a political takeover or I move to another state, there's not one in my near future. A rep at the Ruger booth told me that the LCR is near approval for CA, so I'm glad my wife liked it.
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you do know you could legally buy one if you wanted... as long as it did not have one of a few features.
There are lots of legal ARs in CA.
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you do know you could legally buy one if you wanted... as long as it did not have one of a few features.
There are lots of legal ARs in CA.
I just think that the requirements are ridiculous. These laws aren't making California safer. I probably already have some of them from before the 94 crime bill. The SR556 is really built the way it should be. I'd except a Remington R-15/R-25 type with a "bullet-button", since I would really want it for hunting anyway.
Tab, you're already in the area of the Capitol. Why don't you run for office and get rid of some of these dumb laws based on cosmetics repealed for us? Don't you know some of the legislators also?
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My district already has a good rep with Roger Neilo( one of the few).
I have several higher ups as clients... Many of them would love to change things, but they can't.
You know its funny, just about eveyr one I know says I should run for office. I don't take shit from anyone, and I get things done. Just about every goverment employee/elected/ appointed would hate me.
FWIW, there is so much wrong with this state, guns are not even in the top 100 things that need to be fixed.
WHen tiem came around to "fixing" the gun laws. all I would do is write a bill that removed all LEO execptions... every thing else would work its way out after that...
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"Just about every goverment employee/elected/ appointed would hate me. "
They must know you like we do ;D
Seriously, That is a good recommendation in my book.
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I have owned numerous Rugers for over 30 years starting with my first handgun, a Ruger Stainless Security Six in .357. Their handguns are built like tanks and have been extreamly reliable. This has included DA and SA revolvers and auto pistols. I have no complaints with fit and finish. They are accurate for what they are designed for and I can't remember a single one that did not shoot better than what I am capable of. If one ever did malfunction at a critical time, you could always use it as a club as they are built that sturdy. I have no experience with any of their polymer framed handguns, so I can't speak to that. As far as rifles go, most of my experience has been with the 10/22 and the Mini-14. I have never had either model fail on me. Granted, some Mini-14 have some accuracy issues, but Ruger seems to have addressed that issue withthe latest ones. The Mini is extreamly reliable and is an excelent defensive wepeon and I would not be afraid to go on offense with one. It is not a tack driver,and was not designed as one. I have seen stock Minis out of the box out shoot stock ARs out of the box. Both can be made to shoot better. The 10-22 is a great little gun out of the box. If you want you can make it into whatever you want to. Ruger has started putting plastic trigger guard housings in them and are finishing the barrels now with what to me appears to be sime kind of coating. The receiver has some kind of krinkle paint finish. I think the front sight dovetail is now a plastic sleeve. I don't care for these latest changes. I imagine a lot of it has to do with price point and the fact that many new 10/22s get stripped down for cutom builds now. If Ruger wants to build an ugly 10-22 for a price point, fine, but I wish they would have a more refined and finely fiished one available for those who care more about the asthestics of blue steel and wood.
Are their poorly made Rugers out there, most likely, just as there are poorly made Glocks, and Smiths and Colts and Sigs and Kimbers and anything else that is manufactured.
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Actually 1.047" @ 100 yards and 3.49" @ 1000 (.44 = 1/8 MOA @ 1000)
300' x 2 = 600' x 12" = 7200"
7200" x pi = circumfrence of 22620"
c/360 = 62.63/60 min = 1.047" or 1 moa @100 yards.
I think the bottom of a beer can at 100 yards is close enough for government work! ;D
ps...thanks to my 10th grade geometry teacher.....who'd a thunk I'd ever need to know that stuff after all these years!
I thought 1 MOA @ 1000 yds was a hair over 10"...? ? ?
And, the fit, finish, and function is top notch on all my Ruger firearms, and the accuracy is more than acceptable.
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3000' x 2 = 6000' x 12" = 72000"
72000" x pi = circumfrence of 226200"
c/360 = 628.32/60 min = 10.47" or 1 moa @1000 yards.
Your right PegLeg, I must have grabbed my left handed calculator...... ;D
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3000' x 2 = 6000' x 12" = 72000"
72000" x pi = circumfrence of 226200"
c/360 = 628.32/60 min = 10.47" or 1 moa @1000 yards.
Your right PegLeg, I must have grabbed my left handed calculator...... ;D
Curse those decimal points ;D
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Curse those decimal points ;D
Actually Tom, considering what I do for a living, it's a little embarrasing that I screwed up the math!......Too bad we never went to the metric system in this country, it's the only thing from the European's that I ever thought was worth a damn!
;D
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Actually Tom, considering what I do for a living, it's a little embarrasing that I screwed up the math!......Too bad we never went to the metric system in this country, it's the only thing from the European's that I ever thought was worth a damn!
;D
I've been doing this type of work for over 20 years and I suck at math ;D , Stuff I use regularly I can do in my head, like converting fractions, as for the rest of it ???
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Actually Tom, considering what I do for a living, it's a little embarrasing that I screwed up the math!......Too bad we never went to the metric system in this country, it's the only thing from the European's that I ever thought was worth a damn!
;D
Hell, I wasn't trying to point out that you were wrong.....I was trying to figure out if I was or not. ;D
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Too bad we never went to the metric system in this country, it's the only thing from the European's that I ever thought was worth a damn!
unfortunately the metric system was invented by the frogs
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unfortunately the metric system was invented by the frogs
True, but the must have surrendered it to someone, they have a habit of giving it up pretty easily!
At least my wife did!!!!! ;D ;D
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True, but the must have surrendered it to someone, they have a habit of giving it up pretty easily!
they also have a bad habit of making life more difficult on themselves when they do things different 'just to be different' or original. if it ain't French, they don't like it.
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they also have a bad habit of making life more difficult on themselves when they do things different 'just to be different' or original. if it ain't French, they don't like it.
Hey! Lets not beat up on the French. As long as they stick to food, wine, sex and fashion and philosophy they're great. Its when they get involved with politics and the military that they run into trouble. As far as music and movies, the jury's still out.
FQ13
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Hey! Lets not beat up on the French. As long as they stick to food, wine, sex and fashion and philosophy they're great. Its when they get involved with politics and the military that they run into trouble. As far as music and movies, the jury's still out.
FQ13
Why not? Everyone else has been doing it for hundreds of years. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Never considered consulting them for any of that other sh*t either....... ::)
Damn....didn't know I was so uncultured. ;)
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Hey! Lets not beat up on the French.
why not, they certainly find time to bash Americans! besides, they deserve it, right? ;D
Damn....didn't know I was so uncultured. ;)
I thought we all had some culture, , just not very refined. ;)
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Don't be so quick to praise french food, the sauces were developed to cover the taste of rotten meat.
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Don't be so quick to praise french food, the sauces were developed to cover the taste of rotten meat.
Its true, but my people (the Scots) just called anyone who complained about it a wimp. I love the music, I played the pipes, but when your national dish is sheep giblets in oatmeal and cabage, boiled in a sewed up sheeps stomach, a good Beuure blanc or Bernais sauce starts looking pretty damn good. If it's really rotten, go with Thai, it just scares the hell out of the germs and they leave voluntairily. ;D
FQ13
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I'll just have a damn hamburger. ;)
And a Ruger SA on the side. ;D
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I'll just have a damn hamburger. ;)
And a Ruger SA on the side. ;D
Can I get a AMEN, Hallelujah?!?!
As Willie the grounds keeper on the Simpsons once said: "Bonjour, you cheese-eating surrender-monkeys!"
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;D
"Bonjour, you cheese-eating surrender-monkeys!"
;D ;D ;D
+1 ;D
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I own several rugers p90,89,95,gp100,sp101,10/22,mini6.8,and pc9. Maybe there is a reason i own so many, ruger makes a good gun and the price is right.