Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: philw on May 21, 2009, 06:26:06 PM
Title: Witness Statements
Post by: philw on May 21, 2009, 06:26:06 PM
hahah got to love them ;)
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: brosometal on May 21, 2009, 06:33:18 PM
"...and the fatter wog said to the skinnier wog..."
"I will call on my fully sick boys "
"You've seen enough tonight"
"I saw the gloke 9, it was awesome".
This should be on a tourist advertisement. I wanna go just to hang out and listen to the lingo.
philw: what exactly is a wog? I think I understand "my fully sick boys"
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Texas_Bryan on May 21, 2009, 06:35:14 PM
What??? Some folks need to learn to speak English right, we could send some folks from Mississippi over and they'd be able to learn them better. ;D I'm glad they had such a good time though. 'Oi, oi, oi. My turn to tawk to de cam'ra.'
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: philw on May 21, 2009, 06:50:43 PM
philw: what exactly is a wog? I think I understand "my fully sick boys"
a Wog, + person of Mediterranean origin ie Greek, Italian generally it is an insult normally now it is like Niger it is ok for black people to call them that however if a white person called a black person that then they are raciest
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Texas_Bryan on May 21, 2009, 07:13:15 PM
a Wog, + person of Mediterranean origin ie Greek, Italian generally it is an insult normally now it is like Niger it is ok for black people to call them that however if a white person called a black person that then they are raciest
We also know how to spell. Two 'G's in that one word I've never used in my entire life. ;D And in Texas we call don't say 'wog' we say 'eye-talian'. For example, "That boy was riding around on a eye-talian scooter like the National Democrat Convention was in town." And you know your bored if your classifying different groups of white folk. :P And what is the 'fully sick boys'. Some type of criminal group.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: 10/22kid on May 21, 2009, 07:37:58 PM
yea and phil what's this "chick chick boom" the first girl is talking about? Is that like a three some in the states, but it gets you shot! ;D
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Pathfinder on May 21, 2009, 08:05:28 PM
GB Shaw was Irish, but he nailed when he said we were the same people separated by a common language.
Do I need to go to babelfish.com to get the translations from the Australian?
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 21, 2009, 09:08:03 PM
yea and phil what's this "chick chick boom" the first girl is talking about? Is that like a three some in the states, but it gets you shot! ;D
Those can get you shot too, but only if the wife finds out. I used to date an Aussie in college and I have to say I was clueless as to about half of what she was saying, but it soounded sexy. ;D FQ13 PS I was awarded an honary medal of honor by my ROTC cadet commander for dating her in the first place. She broke up with him after a drill session after she found out he was cheating on her. She rolled out of bed at 6:30, rode her bike to GU and in the presence of all cadets and cadre, proceeds to stand to her full 4'11" and berate him at high volume, ending her tirade with "Well for someone who likes sex so much, you aren't very bloody good at it are you"? Aussie, Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: philw on May 21, 2009, 09:19:52 PM
A wog/lebbo expression that means excellent or very good.Also can be used to pay out wogs/lebbos :) That car looks fully sik habib... f..k bro that maria looks fully sic. Ayy boyz aint my vl fully sic.
Those can get you shot too, but only if the wife finds out. I used to date an Aussie in college and I have to say I was clueless as to about half of what she was saying, but it soounded sexy. ;D FQ13 PS I was awarded an honary medal of honor by my ROTC cadet commander for dating her in the first place. She broke up with him after a drill session after she found out he was cheating on her. She rolled out of bed at 6:30, rode her bike to GU and in the presence of all cadets and cadre, proceeds to stand to her full 4'11" and berate him at high volume, ending her tirade with "Well for someone who likes sex so much, you aren't very bloody good at it are you"? Aussie, Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi! ;D ;D ;D
heheh nothing like a Pissed off Aussie Chick
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 21, 2009, 10:48:17 PM
Do you still call them "kaffirs" or is that strictly a South African one ?
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: philw on May 21, 2009, 11:18:05 PM
over here the natives ( Aboriginals) get called Boongs or Abbos
Well your first mistake was you didn't get rid of all your natives like we did. We kept a few for ours for living museums though, "Please this way, Chief 'Hits-On-Nineteen' will show you our traditional casino."
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 22, 2009, 01:47:01 AM
Well your first mistake was you didn't get rid of all your natives like we did. We kept a few for ours for living museums though, "Please this way, Chief 'Hits-On-Nineteen' will show you our traditional casino."
Tex, are you even listening to yourself? Do you maybe think that overt racism in this and your earlier post about the N word might not be the best publicity for 2A causes on an open forum? I'm not going to try to lecture you on racism, because if your pastor hasn't gotten through to you I sure won't. Just maybe think about what kind of impression you might make on other folks. This is after all about politics, eg persuasion. Not being overtly racist is kind of like showering, shaving and brushing your teeth, its just good manners. Not to mention the Christian and American thing to do. ::) FQ13
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Texas_Bryan on May 22, 2009, 02:00:01 AM
Tex, are you even listening to yourself? Do you maybe think that overt racism in this and your earlier post about the N word might not be the best publicity for 2A causes on an open forum? I'm not going to try to lecture you on racism, because if your pastor hasn't gotten through to you I sure won't. Just maybe think about what kind of impression you might make on other folks. This is after all about politics, eg persuasion. Not being overtly racist is kind of like showering, shaving and brushing your teeth, its just good manners. Not to mention the Christian and American thing to do. ::) FQ13
My post wasn't trying to be racist, I was attempting to be a bit more critical of our treatment of our natives and there current situation. It wasn't trying to put down the Indians, unfortunantly you can't transmit sarcasm though text as well as speech. Some may not pick up on my brand of sarcasm and humor, but know I was not trying to suggest that the treatment of our natives was positive thing. If it helps, know that yours truly has Indian blood in him, not as much as the other stuff, but its there.
But if you took offense to my comment...I'm sorry, give it ten or fifteen minutes and you'll get over it and we can be friends again.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: philw on May 22, 2009, 02:14:22 AM
My post wasn't trying to be racist, I was attempting to be a bit more critical of our treatment of our natives and there current situation. It wasn't trying to put down the Indians, unfortunantly you can't transmit sarcasm though text as well as speech. Some may not pick up on my brand of sarcasm and humor, but know I was not trying to suggest that the treatment of our natives was positive thing. If it helps, know that yours truly has Indian blood in him, not as much as the other stuff, but its there.
But if you took offense to my comment...I'm sorry, give it ten or fifteen minutes and you'll get over it and we can be friends again.
My apologies Tex. As you say, sometimes sarcasm doesn't come through online. I've gotten in trouble with it myself (I'm thinkng about using italics in the future). I wasn't trying to be all PC, just being mindful that this a war for hearts and minds on an open forum, and not a locker room. Although judging from the amount of time I've spent in the corner, you'd think that I didn't know that as well. Peace FQ13
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: True_Texan on May 22, 2009, 02:36:46 AM
and there is there is the No 1 Reason I get in to the crap with online Forums ;)
Mainly because too many people are overly sensitive to everything. FQ being one of those that has to point out everyone is RACIST!! How about this, instead of looking so deeply and trying to pull some kind of Freud BS out of your ass all the time, stop and consider this: maybe, JUST MAYBE, you are the one that is racist? Stop being so critical about race comments. It's part of the entire makeup of this planet. People are different. There are different characteristics to each of them and until people can stop pointing the finger at those who recognize and openly comment about them, racism will continue.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Texas_Bryan on May 22, 2009, 02:44:30 AM
My apologies Tex. As you say, sometimes sarcasm doesn't come through online. I've gotten in trouble with it myself (I'm thinkng about using italics in the future). I wasn't trying to be all PC, just being mindful that this a war for hearts and minds on an open forum, and not a locker room. Although judging from the amount of time I've spent in the corner, you'd think that I didn't know that as well. Peace FQ13
Its all good baby, we all need to more mindful of the publicness of this forum. I thank you for reminding me of this, because sometimes I'm not as thoughtful to the sensitivities of others, comes from living with a huge family, as I need to be. Know that calling me out on BS is not only cool but is encouraged, feedback is always welcome.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Texas_Bryan on May 22, 2009, 02:50:55 AM
Mainly because too many people are overly sensitive to everything. FQ being one of those that has to point out everyone is RACIST!! How about this, instead of looking so deeply and trying to pull some kind of Freud BS out of your ass all the time, stop and consider this: maybe, JUST MAYBE, you are the one that is racist? Stop being so critical about race comments. It's part of the entire makeup of this planet. People are different. There are different characteristics to each of them and until people can stop pointing the finger at those who recognize and openly comment about them, racism will continue.
Where I'm from, no one sugar coats racism. Mexican, Black, and White folks just say what observable about others. Racism is a part of every race, I don't dislike anyone based on race, but I do recognized the differences between them. Same as the others round these parts, FQ knows that, he lived here, but FQ also understands that the rest of the world may not be able to appreciate that. Which we do need to be reminded of. But people should try not to be so sensitive, and realize that their attempts to put themselves above the rest of us, by declaring they have not a race base observation in their brain, are naive and nonconstructive in their childishness.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 22, 2009, 03:10:54 AM
Where I'm from, no one sugar coats racism. Mexican, Black, and White folks just say what observable about others. Racism is a part of every race, I don't dislike anyone based on race, but I do recognized the differences between them. Same as the others round these parts, FQ knows that, he lived here, but FQ also understands that the rest of the world may not be able to appreciate that. Which we do need to be reminded of. But people should try not to be so sensitive, and realize that their attempts to put themselves above the rest of us, by declaring they have not a race base observation in their brain, are naive and nonconstructive in their childishness.
+100 sir. I never really understood the complexities of race till I lived in Austin. This was after growing up in South Florida and going to school in DC.But seeing how old TexMex families dealt with immigrants and watching the class diferences between African Americans and how the good old boys treated/were treated by both groups opened my eyes. Texas is a very special place (at least the Hill Country because thats all I know) but I definately got a lot more education there than in the classroom. But as you say, its tough to explain unless you've lived there. FQ13
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: True_Texan on May 22, 2009, 04:07:59 AM
It's very true these are public forums and people should be mindful of what they say because others maybe reading it. But at the same time, it does no good to try an point out that someone's comment can be construed as some kind of racist remark. Normal, RATIONAL people will read over things and take it for what it is. It's when someone puts the thought out there, that it's a crude remark, that people stop and rethink the meaning of it.
If you say something is gray, most people will read it that way. But when someone comes in and says, "OH! Gray is mostly black, or gray is mostly white" those previously reading it as gray will stop and think, "HMM... Maybe it is white or maybe it is black." That is when crap starts flying and when I start getting ticked off.
ETA: It's also like the piece of plain white paper with the tiny red dot on it. Most people would look at that paper and never notice the tiny dot. But when someone points it out to them the dot is there, suddenly that is all they can see.
If you were to ever look at my family lineage, you would see a veritable grab bag of races. It makes no difference what each one is. I am who I am and I'll make no apologies for it. And maybe I am just like John Wayne toilet paper... Rough, tough and don't take no shit off no one.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: brosometal on May 22, 2009, 06:06:45 AM
Has anyone seen Grand Tourino? If you were to be offended by racial stereotypes, it would of happened there. Clint Eastwood even mention that he thinks Society suffers because of the PC pall cast over any public discourse. No one jokes anymore. Folks walk around with a chip on their shoulder waiting to be "dissed" so they can complain that someone is "keeping them down". We need to lighten up.
-your friendly neighborhood euromutt.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: shooter32 on May 22, 2009, 09:19:21 AM
Has anyone seen Grand Tourino? If you were to be offended by racial stereotypes, it would of happened there. Clint Eastwood even mention that he thinks Society suffers because of the PC pall cast over any public discourse. No one jokes anymore. Folks walk around with a chip on their shoulder waiting to be "dissed" so they can complain that someone is "keeping them down". We need to lighten up.
-your friendly neighborhood euromutt.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: philw on May 23, 2009, 12:31:42 AM
+100 sir. I never really understood the complexities of race till I lived in Austin. This was after growing up in South Florida and going to school in DC.But seeing how old TexMex families dealt with immigrants and watching the class diferences between African Americans and how the good old boys treated/were treated by both groups opened my eyes. Texas is a very special place (at least the Hill Country because thats all I know) but I definately got a lot more education there than in the classroom. But as you say, its tough to explain unless you've lived there. FQ13
What FQ said is so common all over the southwest and California. I have lived in New Mexico, Texas and California. We have the treatment of good old boys by everybody else. The poor blacks by whites, not so poor blacks and Hispanics. Mexicans by Mexican-Americans. From friends in Arizona and Colorado, they have the same thing. I have my biases but I have friends from other races that I trust with my life and of my race that I would not trust with anything or anytime.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: deepwater on May 23, 2009, 12:15:38 PM
Quote
and there is there is the No 1 Reason I get in to the crap with online Forums
+1 ;D
and I believe the term WOG comes from Egypt. it's what the english called the egyptians that were working on the canal. their coveralls were labeled WOG to distinguish them from others as they came and went from the canal project. something about government workers. read that somewhere, once, don't remember where though. :P
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tt11758 on May 23, 2009, 12:30:56 PM
I believe that the concept of a hyphenated-american has done as much to propogate racism as almost anything else in this country. There was a time when people were white, black, red, yellow, whatever. But they were all americans first and foremost. Now, the PC crowd tells us that we have to call them african-americans, or chinese-americans, or native-americans. What the hell ever happened to just being an AMERICAN?!? So you have a different skin color than I do............so what?!? We're ALL AMERICANS (except you, phil ;D )
Ok, rant off.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: DesertMarine on May 26, 2009, 04:14:00 AM
Sorry TT, not so. There has never been a time like what you are talking about. Look at treatment of Native Americans, blacks, Mexicans. Even though we were born in the US, Mexican-Americans were not accepted as "real" Americans. We were considered as second-class citizens. Good part is that a lot of that has changed but racism still lives. Will be great when attittudes will be "So you have a different skin color than I do............so what?".
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 26, 2009, 11:26:51 AM
Sorry TT, not so. There has never been a time like what you are talking about. Look at treatment of Native Americans, blacks, Mexicans. Even though we were born in the US, Mexican-Americans were not accepted as "real" Americans. We were considered as second-class citizens. Good part is that a lot of that has changed but racism still lives. Will be great when attittudes will be "So you have a different skin color than I do............so what?".
Skin color has very little to do with "racism" unless whites are being accused of it. Asians are all basically the same color, but Thais and Vietnamese hate each other , the Chinese look down their noses at both and the Japanese lump EVERYONE else into the "barbarian" category. Same thing in Africa among tribes, then in Arabia you have the Sunni versus Shiite and the BOTH hate Kurds.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Pathfinder on May 26, 2009, 11:51:40 AM
Skin color has very little to do with "racism" unless whites are being accused of it. Asians are all basically the same color, but Thais and Vietnamese hate each other , the Chinese look down their noses at both and the Japanese lump EVERYONE else into the "barbarian" category. Same thing in Africa among tribes, then in Arabia you have the Sunni versus Shiite and BOTH hate Kurds.
"And everyone hates the Jews!" - Thank you Tom Lehrer. ;D
Seriously, every culture has someone else they hate. Barbarians came from the Greeks who were so arrogant that they even though the Persians weren't good enough, so they were barbarians. The Romans found ways to capitalize on that.
The Lakota and a number of other NA tribes refer to themselves as "human beings" or "the people" - making everyone else what? Not human beings or people.
DesertMarine, normally I agree with you, but seriously, it would be nice to deal with people and not even notice their skin color rather than make it a topic to discuss. MLK's dream as it were.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 26, 2009, 12:32:00 PM
The good news/bad news here is that whiteness is and always has been the standard for being American. The fact is though that being white has steadily expanded. Initially it only meant English and Scots and Welsh. Irish were treated (and oddly depicted in cartoons) as being black. Franklin hated Germans, and was not alone. The Italians were not considered white, even by law. There was a case, Roberts vs Louisiana (I want to say 1927 but thereabouts) where a black guy was given 5 years hard labor for marrying a white woman (prop 8 version 1.0). His lawyer appealed. The La. court of appeals set him free on the grounds that his wife was "Sicilian and therefore not definatively white". In fact, the term Guinea applied to Italians referred to them as being from Africa. THere is a whole seies of court cases called the Prerequisite cases, where the SCOTUS determined who was and was not white and could legally immigrate as only whites, and after the 14th ammendment Africans could (oddly there were few takers). Armeinians yes, Syrians no, Japanes no. As far as Mexicans they were declared white by law, though not in practice, by the treaty of Gudalupe Hidalgo. Interesting thing though. There was a murder case in California in the 1850s. By law Chinese couldn't testify against a white man. The witness in the case was a Mexican. The defese lawyer argued that since Mexicans were part Indian, and since the Indians were of Asiatic extraction, the man was really Chinese, and therefore couldn' testify. Laugh, but it made it to a California appeals court. Jews weren't really considered white until the 1970s. This is changing for the better with blacks being the slowest to be accepted but getting there. To me the test is who you can bring home to the folks and say you're dating and that is expanding daily. FQ13
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Hazcat on May 26, 2009, 01:24:34 PM
Sorry TT, not so. There has never been a time like what you are talking about. Look at treatment of Native Americans, blacks, Mexicans. Even though we were born in the US, Mexican-Americans were not accepted as "real" Americans. We were considered as second-class citizens. Good part is that a lot of that has changed but racism still lives. Will be great when attittudes will be "So you have a different skin color than I do............so what?".
As long as you put your Mexican heritage in front of your American citizenship you will never be an American. I have Irish and German heritage but I do not call myself Irish-American or German-American or even European-Ameircan. I call myself an American. Notice I didn't say 'just' American cause in my thinking being Ameican isn't a 'just', it is very special. Untill you can think without the hyphen you will never be a true American."
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: DesertMarine on May 26, 2009, 02:37:50 PM
Because we, at least some of us, use Mexican-American, does not mean that our Mexican heritage is in front of being Americans. I am proud of both and my loyallty has been and will always been to the USA. We were brought up to be Americans and along side that be proud of our heritage. I don't know if other cultures did it but we were taught to recite the pledge of allegience in English and Spanish. This was in the 1940's. It was as literal as you can make it translation from English to Spanish. The version that came out a few years ago, was different from what we learned, don't like it. The Mexican community had the feeling that since we were Americans and lived here, that we had the responsibility to serve our country. We were expected to enlist in the military after high school and most of us did. I will compare my citizenship, patriotism and service to my country with anybody, anytime and I will continue to call myself a Mexican-American whenever I wish. I will also speak Spanish whenever and wherever I wish.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 26, 2009, 02:47:59 PM
Because we, at least some of us, use Mexican-American, does not mean that our Mexican heritage is in front of being Americans. I am proud of both and my loyallty has been and will always been to the USA. We were brought up to be Americans and along side that be proud of our heritage. I don't know if other cultures did it but we were taught to recite the pledge of allegience in English and Spanish. This was in the 1940's. It was as literal as you can make it translation from English to Spanish. The version that came out a few years ago, was different from what we learned, don't like it. The Mexican community had the feeling that since we were Americans and lived here, that we had the responsibility to serve our country. We were expected to enlist in the military after high school and most of us did. I will compare my citizenship, patriotism and service to my country with anybody, anytime and I will continue to call myself a Mexican-American whenever I wish. I will also speak Spanish whenever and wherever I wish.
And more power to you Desert Marine. Obama got a load of crap, for urging parents to teach their kids a second language. I think that if you move a country you should learn to speak the language as a matter of respect as well as a way to better yourself. That said, a child has more oppotunities, not just economically, but also culturally,if they can interact across cultures. I think its sad that most decendents of the Italians, Germans etc, didn't keep the language skills. FQ13 PS I have been known to wear a kilt in public on occasion, so no need to worry about takng pride in your heritage.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Hazcat on May 26, 2009, 06:20:59 PM
Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: DesertMarine on May 27, 2009, 08:07:13 AM
While Roosevelt's comment sound good, that is not the reality. We have assimilated, learned the language and our loyalty is to our country. The new immigrants (illegal and legal) are doing the same. While the first generation of new immigrants are having a difficult time assimilating or learning the language, the second generation is assimilating very well. That is a normal sequence of events of immigrants coming to this country. Just because people do not Anglosize their names, drop their language and change their customs has nothing to do with loyalty. If they did, you would not enjoy Mexican food, Chinese food or any other foods from the different cultures that are here.
The thinking that we should only speak one language is flawed thinking. This country lost it's business standing as the top country in the world in large part to being monolingual and thinking everybody else had to learn our language and speak to us in our language only. Look at the difficulty we are having now with our current problems because as a nation we mainly speak only one nation. In the 60's I worked for an international airline and you could see the problems and setbacks due to being a monolingual country and the loss in business. The countries that learned other languages other than their own are now at the head of the line.
Roosevelt was entirely wrong in his thnking and it is very apparent in the present. With the diversity of peoples and languages, if we take advantage of them, we can progress to level higher than in the past.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: shooter32 on May 27, 2009, 10:13:06 AM
Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
+100
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Hazcat on May 27, 2009, 10:42:40 AM
While Roosevelt's comment sound good, that is not the reality. We have assimilated, learned the language and our loyalty is to our country. The new immigrants (illegal and legal) are doing the same. While the first generation of new immigrants are having a difficult time assimilating or learning the language, the second generation is assimilating very well. That is a normal sequence of events of immigrants coming to this country. Just because people do not Anglosize their names, drop their language and change their customs has nothing to do with loyalty. If they did, you would not enjoy Mexican food, Chinese food or any other foods from the different cultures that are here.
The thinking that we should only speak one language is flawed thinking. This country lost it's business standing as the top country in the world in large part to being monolingual and thinking everybody else had to learn our language and speak to us in our language only. Look at the difficulty we are having now with our current problems because as a nation we mainly speak only one nation. In the 60's I worked for an international airline and you could see the problems and setbacks due to being a monolingual country and the loss in business. The countries that learned other languages other than their own are now at the head of the line.
Roosevelt was entirely wrong in his thnking and it is very apparent in the present. With the diversity of peoples and languages, if we take advantage of them, we can progress to level higher than in the past.
Never said you shouldn't learn a second language. Just that OUR language needs to be English (American English). Does ANY other country in the world teach their state language as a second language? Does any other country in the world conduct official business in other than their state language? Answer to both of those is, no.
Want to know what has screwed up this country? Boarders, Language, Culture. This IS America. We have our own national culture. If you wish to live according to you ancestors culture, go to your ancestors country. If you wish to speak only in your ancestors language, go to you ancestors country.
Ballots, school, courts, in general ALL government (official) business should be in English only. This is not racist, it is survival of our culture. A melting pot is NOT diverse.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Thanos on May 27, 2009, 10:53:47 AM
The funny part about speaking English, China is the country with the largest English speaking population...
Why you ask? Because it is the language of business. Spanish has become the language of labor.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: saltydogbk on May 27, 2009, 12:00:13 PM
As long as you put your Mexican heritage in front of your American citizenship you will never be an American. I have Irish and German heritage but I do not call myself Irish-American or German-American or even European-Ameircan. I call myself an American. Notice I didn't say 'just' American cause in my thinking being Ameican isn't a 'just', it is very special. Untill you can think without the hyphen you will never be a true American."
+100
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tt11758 on May 27, 2009, 01:01:21 PM
As long as you put your Mexican heritage in front of your American citizenship you will never be an American. I have Irish and German heritage but I do not call myself Irish-American or German-American or even European-Ameircan. I call myself an American. Notice I didn't say 'just' American cause in my thinking being Ameican isn't a 'just', it is very special. Untill you can think without the hyphen you will never be a true American."
Thanks Haz, that was the point I was trying to make, just not nearly so eloquently as you did.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tumblebug on May 27, 2009, 01:47:31 PM
K R A C K E R S
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 27, 2009, 01:52:20 PM
Doesn't matter much. Either one would go well with the cheese whiz we keep over in the corner. ;D
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: brosometal on May 27, 2009, 09:56:18 PM
I'm not sure how most feel... Just kidding. ::)
I'm torn on the Immigration issue. I have the opportunity to work with several different Spanish speaking folks (read laborers like stated above). They are all hard working folks. To be honest, they are the more reliable people I deal with.
I also believe that "American" is a mind set and not anything else. Everyone in this great country either relocated here or had relatives do the same. They moved to a land of opportunity and (fading) freedom: someone, somewhere thought that there had to be a better way (here's Reagan's city on a hill again). To put it in simple terms, America is Freedom. To fully participate in that freedom, one must be able to speak the language of success which happens to be English, here, in the United States. This does not preclude someone from using their native tongue when applicable.
I shy away from an official language declaration, but I also think to operate as a citizen (read: voter) one must be able to understand the language of the documents that guarantee the freedoms accorded by this country. Without that understanding one would be voting without complete knowledge and easily swayed by demagogues.
Illegal immigration is not frowned upon (at least by me) because of the desire to be free. But is that the real reason of most illegal immigration? Emergency rooms in the Southern border states beg to differ. The easiest way for me to explain it is this: I'm having a party at my house. Everyone is invited to eat and drink as much as they have the ability to. The only thing that I ask is that you use the entrances provided. The minute you break down a wall or shatter a window, you have forfeited you invitation. It is a simple matter of Respect.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: deepwater on May 27, 2009, 10:02:10 PM
The easiest way for me to explain it is this: I'm having a party at my house. Everyone is invited to eat and drink as much as they have the ability to. The only thing that I ask is that you use the entrances provided. The minute you break down a wall or shatter a window, you have forfeited you invitation. It is a simple matter of Respect.
+100 :D
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 28, 2009, 04:19:17 PM
Hate to disagree with you Desert Marine because we Jarheads should stick together, But this IS NOT, and was NEVER INTENDED to be a "diverse" country It was founded by English subjects for Americans, as an English speaking country, and for the first 190 + years all public business was conducted in English, I understand what you mean about first generation immigrants having difficulty with language and customs, thats to be expected, I'd have a rough time learning a new language as well, but of the European immigrants the SECOND generation always assimilated, Look at Russian Jews like Meyer Lansky. But my main argument is that the root of "diverse" is "divide", and we all know what lincoln said about that.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: brosometal on May 28, 2009, 10:02:25 PM
Just a quick insert: America has a distinct culture. It should be celebrated because at its core, it is (or used to be) Freedom.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: DesertMarine on June 01, 2009, 12:52:48 PM
So what is the American "culture". Even in the early days, it was a mix of people from different parts of Europe. Every culture and language has added to what has become "American culture". Is "American Culture" English culture, European culture and is the lament, that now we have something not totally European or English? That our "American Culture" has changed and that is scary. Not all of us want to be like Europeans or the English. If that is what someone wants, fine but don't impose it on everyone else and shout that they are not "Americans" because they feel and think different. Nothing stands still, everything will change. I always understood that American meant that you were free to express your self in whichever language you wanted to, do things in how you felt was right for you, as long as you do not impinge on someone else's freedoms and rights. So why do you want to impinge my rights and freedoms in how I speak, think and see as my way of life and culture?
English is the language of the this country and is the business language of the world. But their is nothing wrong with other languages and other cultures to being a part of this country.
Tom, you are right but that is not the case anymore. This country has grown into something different and a lot better than when it started. I don't see being diverse as being divisive. If you and I had served in the Corps together and had to go into combat together, we would have taken care of each other even though we are diverse in our cultures. That is what is so beautiful about this country. The Mexican culture in the United States has changed so much since my generation. It is very Americanized now and that is ok, it is going to change like everything else. Our kids speak mainly English, understand Spanish and live their lives very different from ours and it is ok. My son and several nephews and nieces married "white" people and that is ok. Don't worry about "American culture" it will surive and get better.
Even though we think and feel different about some things, there are a lot of guys on this forum like Tom, the Haz and others that I would like to meet in person and drink a beer with.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Ping on June 01, 2009, 01:18:11 PM
Native Americans are the true Americans who got their land and families torn apart. Mexicans are actually Native Americans and the only reason they speak Spanish instead of their traditional language is due to Spain's Conquistidores. The rest of Americans were transplants from Europe and Africa.
Of course English is the dominant language in the United States and should remain to be the dominant language. When I lived in Italy, I respected them and learned to speak conversational Italian. I respected them and was only there as a representative of the United States Air Force. If Mexicans come to the United States, they need to speak English. Period. If Cubans or Hondurans come to the United States, they need to speak English, Period. People from India, Russia, or the freaking Middle East need to speak English in the United States.
Keep in mind that I am not racist. I am a realist. This is our country and we need to preserve our traditions and quit allowing others to interfere and taint it. I am tired of the politically correct cause foreignors walk all over us and I am personally sick of it.
Some of us served this Country and served our Flag. The dominant language of the American Flag is English. I sacrificed years of my life as along with others on this forum in service of the United States Military. While serving under our flag we were trained while speaking English.
I agree with respecting your heritage and it's language. But if you are north of the Mexican Border and south of the Canadian Border, you should speak English.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 01, 2009, 01:28:04 PM
I'm going to post my reply as inserts to your post so that I can keep my train of thought straight.
So what is the American "culture". Even in the early days, it was a mix of people from different parts of Europe. Every culture and language has added to what has become "American culture". Is "American Culture" English culture, European culture and is the lament, that now we have something not totally European or English? That our "American Culture" has changed and that is scary. Not all of us want to be like Europeans or the English. If that is what someone wants, fine but don't impose it on everyone else and shout that they are not "Americans" because they feel and think different. Nothing stands still, everything will change. This previous part I really can't answer beyond saying that being of Irish decent I do not celebrate St. Paddy's day, I don't believe in it or "Cinco De Mayo" or "Bastille Day" I celebrate the 4th of July because I'm an American. (and Nov 10th ;D ) I always understood that American meant that you were free to express your self in whichever language you wanted to, NOT SO, the Constitution guarentees Free Speech, and a free Press, this is NOT the same as "freedom of expression" which is the specious argument that was used to justify burning and otherwise showing disrespect for our Flag and other National symbols. do things in how you felt was right for you, as long as you do not impinge on someone else's freedoms and rights. So why do you want to impinge my rights and freedoms in how I speak, think and see as my way of life and culture? I don't care what language you speak at home, or what foods you eat,(so far I have not met a Mexican Thai, or Chinese food that I have not liked) or how you dress etc. But when I go to DMV I DEMAND that the person I deal with speak ENGLISH, I don't care where your people were from, the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Gettysberg address and every other worth while document of America was composed and written in English, why should WE adapt to the languages of nation that were unable to even conceive of the Ideals America is supposed to represent ?
English is the language of the this country and is the business language of the world. But their is nothing wrong with other languages and other cultures to being a part of this country. If people want to come here they need to adapt to OUR ways, not vice versa, if their country was so great they probably should have stayed there.
Tom, you are right but that is not the case anymore. This country has grown into something different and a lot better than when it started. I don't see being diverse as being divisive. You don't see it as being divisive ? Look at all that you and I have have in common, Marines, guns, Conservative politics etc. but this subject has us who, as your next lines point out, are Brothers, arguing among our selves, Furtunately we are both reasonable and intelligent people and keep it a debate of ideas, but what about the less gifted sheeple ? These are exactly the things that lead to wars in other counties. If you and I had served in the Corps together and had to go into combat together, we would have taken care of each other even though we are diverse in our cultures. That is what is so beautiful about this country. The Mexican culture in the United States has changed so much since my generation. It is very Americanized now and that is ok, it is going to change like everything else. Our kids speak mainly English, understand Spanish and live their lives very different from ours and it is ok. My son and several nephews and nieces married "white" people and that is ok. Don't worry about "American culture" it will surive and get better. America was built as a melting pot, to blend the best features of ALL cultures, not to seperate them into their little ghetto's as in Europe, or "Quarters" as in the East, as long as the blending continues we ARE in pretty good shape.
Even though we think and feel different about some things, there are a lot of guys on this forum like Tom, the Haz and others that I would like to meet in person and drink a beer with. Yes, I agree ;D
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Timothy on June 01, 2009, 01:35:10 PM
Veterans Day, young Thomas, is November the 11th....not the 10th.....geez..... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Hazcat on June 01, 2009, 01:35:16 PM
Tom,
Well stated.
DM,
You KNOW I still like and respect you. (and I'll even buy the second round ;) )
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: Timothy on June 01, 2009, 01:37:06 PM
I don't drink but I'll buy the first round, the balance you can fight amoungst yourselves....
:) ;)
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 01, 2009, 01:41:08 PM
Yeah, the Marines (Nov 10, 1775) have been around ALMOST as long as the Army (June 14,1775). ;) ;D
Lest we forget...
"The United States Navy traces its origins to the Continental Navy, which the Continental Congress established on 13 October 1775 by authorizing the procurement, fitting out, manning, and dispatch of two armed vessels to cruise in search of munitions ships supplying the British Army in America. The legislation also established a Naval Committee to supervise the work. All together, the Continental Navy numbered some fifty ships over the course of the war, with approximately twenty warships active at its maximum strength."
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: DesertMarine on June 01, 2009, 05:40:44 PM
Tom, I'll do the same. "This previous part I really can't answer beyond saying that being of Irish decent I do not celebrate St. Paddy's day, I don't believe in it or "Cinco De Mayo" or "Bastille Day" I celebrate the 4th of July because I'm an American. (and Nov 10th." Not celebrating St. Paddy's day is up to you, though it is celebrated in the US.
"NOT SO, the Constitution guarentees Free Speech, and a free Press, this is NOT the same as "freedom of expression" which is the specious argument that was used to justify burning and otherwise showing disrespect for our Flag and other National symbols." My comment says that we have the freedom of speech, in any language we wish, not anything to do with justification. Did not the Supreme Court held up that burning the flag was protected by the 1st Ammendment. I don't agree with that.
"I don't care what language you speak at home, or what foods you eat,(so far I have not met a Mexican Thai, or Chinese food that I have not liked) or how you dress etc. But when I go to DMV I DEMAND that the person I deal with speak ENGLISH, I don't care where your people were from, the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Gettysberg address and every other worth while document of America was composed and written in English, why should WE adapt to the languages of nation that were unable to even conceive of the Ideals America is supposed to represent ?" No one is saying you have to. Most people from other places are adapting and learning and doing business in English. A lot of them, learning in first generation and almost all by second generation. Those that do not, find life here very difficult and most go back to their countries. By third generations, the young people do associate with their country of origin and would not be albe to assimilate there.
As far as November 10th, that is the most important date in the history of the world. No arguement. I celebrate with a few good shots of tequila every year. Been known to shed a tear or two.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 01, 2009, 08:57:57 PM
Let me try to come at my point from a different direction, Over my life I have seen my home state change for the worse, Urbanization of once quaint New England towns, Commercialization of natural wonders, an increasing disconnection between the people and those who are supposed to represent them, increasing crime, the disappearance of the "Old Yankee"traditions, When I was a kid the State legislature got their $100, a special license plate, and then went back to their real jobs, anything that needed to be decided was settled in March when the towns held Town Meeting, then the issue was raised, and Face to face with your neighbors some spoke for, some spoke against and a vote was taken based on raised hands, the issue passed or failed. That has changed because people from Boston and NY come up here to "get away from the City" they bring their money and build million dollar homes, then demand services like they had in the city, driving tax rates to where natives can't afford to own a home in our own state, they get Ordinances and laws passed simply because their big city jobs let them afford lawyers, that a working man can't hope to compete with, they come to the woods and get their sidewalks and street lights because the alternative is a law suit that can bankrupt a small town, so they drive our taxes up, (bearing in mind that high taxes used to be the #1 gripe of Massholes that came up here) Then they want something else, the 250 year old street trees make a mess on their lawn they have to all be cut down, and it goes on, and our taxes go up. Now in what USED to be one of the most Conservative states in the Nation one of the local towns can not afford new books for the Library because the money earmarked for them had to be spent on a lawsuit defending Town Meetings because some rich prick Ma. can't be bothered to show up for a one day meeting, the fact he only uses the place to get shitfaced and DWI's 3 months of the year doesn't matter, He's a property owner, this is happening while the formerly inactive state legislature debates the wording of a gay wedding bill. These things piss me off. If they want the things of the city then they should stay in the f%$king city, don't bring the city here, we don't want it. The last 2 places I worked no one was under 36 and I was the only one who was born and raised here. I don't want to see the country suffer the same loss of identity that NH has. I am NOT a citizen of the world.
I just reread this DM, Don't take it personal, try to see my point but bear in mind that I'm venting TO you, not ranting AT you. Semper Fi.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: DesertMarine on June 03, 2009, 01:19:19 PM
Tom, I have read enough of your writings to know where you are coming from. Same here, I don't take it personally, from you. What has happened in your town is happening all over. I moved to Albuquerque in 1969. It was a good small big town. You knew you were in New Mexico. Now, with the influx of big city ideas, morals and all the rest, it is not the same. The New Yorkers want things like they had in New York, the Californians want to change it to be like California. One of my sisters lived in Wyoming for about 25 years and moved to Albuquerque area, complained that Wyoming had a better system for doing things. I told her politely to move back and have said so to others. But they won't go back.
One thing I like very much is some changes from when I was growing up. My home town was around 18K population when I was growing up. I am Catholic. We had two Catholic Churches in town, not because of need but because of race. On the north side was the "white" Catholic Chruch and on the south side the "Mexican" Catholic Church. Both had elementary schools, with the "white" church also having a high school. We could not go to the Catholic high school. That was then. Now, we still have two churchs but most of the "whites" now belong to the "Mexican" church. A lot of Mexicans have gone to the "white" church. We now have a lot of blacks and some Asians in our churches. I love what has happened. Some of us prefer the Mass in Spanish, so we have Masses in Spanish. My sister likes the Mass in Latin and that where she goes, she lives in Albuquerque area. That is only a small example in what I say that a lot of the changes are for the better and will only make us stronger.
Changes in our country have occurred and will continue to occur. What we need to be concerned more, is people like fundamentalist Muslims who want us under Sharia law. There are a lot of Muslims that love their religon but do not believe like the fundamentalists and are willing to live along side of everyone else.
Title: Re: Witness Statements
Post by: brosometal on June 07, 2009, 02:01:13 PM