Witness Statements

[fightingquaker13]

The good news/bad news here is that whiteness is and always has been the standard for being American. The fact is though that being white has steadily expanded. Initially it only meant English and Scots and Welsh. Irish were treated (and oddly depicted in cartoons) as being black. Franklin hated Germans, and was not alone. The Italians were not considered white, even by law. There was a case, Roberts vs Louisiana (I want to say 1927 but thereabouts) where a black guy was given 5 years hard labor for marrying a white woman (prop 8 version 1.0). His lawyer appealed. The La. court of appeals set him free on the grounds that his wife was "Sicilian and therefore not definatively white". In fact, the term Guinea applied to Italians referred to them as being from Africa. THere is a whole seies of court cases called the Prerequisite cases, where the SCOTUS determined who was and was not white and could legally immigrate as only whites, and after the 14th ammendment Africans could (oddly there were few takers). Armeinians yes, Syrians no, Japanes no. As far as Mexicans they were declared white by law, though not in practice, by the treaty of Gudalupe Hidalgo. Interesting thing though. There was a murder case in California in the 1850s. By law Chinese couldn't testify against a white man. The witness in the case was a Mexican. The defese lawyer argued that since Mexicans were part Indian, and since the Indians were of Asiatic extraction, the man was really Chinese, and therefore couldn' testify. Laugh, but it made it to a California appeals court. Jews weren't really considered white until the 1970s. This is changing for the better with blacks being the slowest to be accepted but getting there. To me the test is who you can bring home to the folks and say you're dating and that is expanding daily.
FQ13

[Hazcat]

Sorry TT, not so.  There has never been a time like what you are talking about.  Look at treatment of Native Americans, blacks, Mexicans.  Even though we were born in the US, Mexican-Americans were not accepted as "real" Americans.  We were considered as second-class citizens.  Good part is that a lot of that has changed but racism still lives.  Will be great when attittudes will be "So you have a different skin color than I do............so what?".

As long as you put your Mexican heritage in front of your American citizenship you will never be an American.  I have Irish and German heritage but I do not call myself Irish-American or German-American or even European-Ameircan.  I call myself an American.  Notice I didn't say 'just' American cause in my thinking being Ameican isn't a 'just', it is very special.  Untill you can think without the hyphen you will never be a true American."

[DesertMarine]

Because we, at least some of us, use Mexican-American, does not mean that our Mexican heritage is in front of being Americans.  I am proud of both and my loyallty has been and will always been to the USA.  We were brought up to be Americans and along side that be proud of our heritage.  I don't know if other cultures did it but we were taught to recite the pledge of allegience in English and Spanish.  This was in the 1940's.  It was as literal as you can make it translation from English to Spanish.  The version that came out a few years ago, was different from what we learned, don't like it.  The Mexican community had the feeling that since we were Americans and lived here, that we had the responsibility to serve our country.  We were expected to enlist in the military after high school and most of us did. 
I will compare my citizenship, patriotism and service to my country with anybody, anytime and I will continue to call myself a Mexican-American whenever I wish.  I will also speak Spanish whenever and wherever I wish.

[fightingquaker13]

Because we, at least some of us, use Mexican-American, does not mean that our Mexican heritage is in front of being Americans.  I am proud of both and my loyallty has been and will always been to the USA.  We were brought up to be Americans and along side that be proud of our heritage.  I don't know if other cultures did it but we were taught to recite the pledge of allegience in English and Spanish.  This was in the 1940's.  It was as literal as you can make it translation from English to Spanish.  The version that came out a few years ago, was different from what we learned, don't like it.  The Mexican community had the feeling that since we were Americans and lived here, that we had the responsibility to serve our country.  We were expected to enlist in the military after high school and most of us did. 
I will compare my citizenship, patriotism and service to my country with anybody, anytime and I will continue to call myself a Mexican-American whenever I wish.  I will also speak Spanish whenever and wherever I wish.

And more power to you Desert Marine. Obama got a load of crap, for urging parents to teach their kids a second language. I think that if you move a country you should learn to speak the language as a matter of respect as well as a way to better yourself. That said, a child has more oppotunities, not just economically, but also culturally,if they can interact across cultures. I think its sad that most decendents of the Italians, Germans etc, didn't keep the language skills.
FQ13
PS I have been known to wear a kilt in public on occasion, so no need to worry about takng pride in your heritage.

[Hazcat]

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[Sponsor]

[DesertMarine]

While Roosevelt's comment sound good, that is not the reality.  We have assimilated, learned the language and our loyalty is to our country.  The new immigrants (illegal and legal) are doing the same.  While the first generation of new immigrants are having a difficult time assimilating or learning the language, the second generation is assimilating very well.  That is a normal sequence of events of immigrants coming to this country.  Just because people do not Anglosize their names, drop their language and change their customs has nothing to do with loyalty.  If they did, you would not enjoy Mexican food, Chinese food or any other foods from the different cultures that are here.   

The thinking that we should only speak one language is flawed thinking.  This country lost it's business standing as the top country in the world in large part to being monolingual and thinking everybody else had to learn our language and speak to us in our language only.  Look at the difficulty we are having now with our current problems because as a nation we mainly speak only one nation.  In the 60's I worked for an international airline and you could see the problems and setbacks due to being a monolingual country and the loss in business.  The countries that learned other languages other than their own are now at the head of the line.

Roosevelt was entirely wrong in his thnking and it is very apparent in the present.  With the diversity of peoples and languages, if we take advantage of them, we can progress to level higher than in the past. 

[shooter32]

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

+100

[Hazcat]

While Roosevelt's comment sound good, that is not the reality.  We have assimilated, learned the language and our loyalty is to our country.  The new immigrants (illegal and legal) are doing the same.  While the first generation of new immigrants are having a difficult time assimilating or learning the language, the second generation is assimilating very well.  That is a normal sequence of events of immigrants coming to this country.  Just because people do not Anglosize their names, drop their language and change their customs has nothing to do with loyalty.  If they did, you would not enjoy Mexican food, Chinese food or any other foods from the different cultures that are here.   

The thinking that we should only speak one language is flawed thinking.  This country lost it's business standing as the top country in the world in large part to being monolingual and thinking everybody else had to learn our language and speak to us in our language only.  Look at the difficulty we are having now with our current problems because as a nation we mainly speak only one nation.  In the 60's I worked for an international airline and you could see the problems and setbacks due to being a monolingual country and the loss in business.  The countries that learned other languages other than their own are now at the head of the line.

Roosevelt was entirely wrong in his thnking and it is very apparent in the present.  With the diversity of peoples and languages, if we take advantage of them, we can progress to level higher than in the past. 

Never said you shouldn't learn a second language.  Just that OUR language needs to be English (American English).  Does ANY other country in the world teach their state language as a second language?  Does any other country in the world conduct official business in other than their state language?  Answer to both of those is, no.

Want to know what has screwed up this country?  Boarders, Language, Culture. This IS America.  We have our own national culture.  If you wish to live according to you ancestors culture, go to your ancestors country.  If you wish to speak only in your ancestors language, go to you ancestors country.

Ballots, school, courts, in general ALL government (official) business should be in English only.  This is not racist, it is survival of our culture.  A melting pot is NOT diverse.

[Thanos]

The funny part about speaking English, China is the country with the largest English speaking population...


Why you ask? Because it is the language of business. Spanish has become the language of labor.

[saltydogbk]

As long as you put your Mexican heritage in front of your American citizenship you will never be an American.  I have Irish and German heritage but I do not call myself Irish-American or German-American or even European-Ameircan.  I call myself an American.  Notice I didn't say 'just' American cause in my thinking being Ameican isn't a 'just', it is very special.  Untill you can think without the hyphen you will never be a true American."

+100