The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on July 27, 2009, 10:53:37 AM
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http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_state_surveys/arizona/most_arizona_voters_put_immigration_over_health_care_as_more_important_reform_goal
Fifty-one percent (51%) of Arizona voters say it is more important for Congress to pass immigration reform than health care reform. A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in the state shows that 45% hold the opposite view and think health care reform is more important.
By a 65% to 20% margin, Arizona voters believe enforcing the borders is more important than legalizing the status of those already living here. Half of the state’s voters (50%) think it is possible to put an end to illegal immigration, while 34% do not. Those results are slightly more optimistic than those found on the national level.
Voters in the Grand Canyon State still highly regard Maricopa Country Sheriff Joseph Arpaio, known for his tough immigration enforcement. Fifty-seven percent (57%) say the sheriff’s policies have helped the state’s image, showing little change from May. Twenty-seven percent (27%) say the sheriff’s policies hurt the state’s image.
As for health care, 52% of voters in Arizona oppose the reform plan proposed by President Obama and Congressional Democrats. Forty-five percent (45%) favor the plan. Those figures include 42% who are strongly opposed and 24% who strongly favor it. On the national level, 53% oppose the plan.
On all questions, there is a huge partisan gap. While 69% of Arizona Republicans and 60% of unaffiliated voters say immigration reform should be the top goal, 78% of Democrats say health care should be the priority.
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All that I can say is.......... Duuuuh!
Healthcare reform further bankrupts our country.
Immigration reform..............gets rid of illegals that are bankrupting our country and keeps them out. The security from actually protecting our borders is also a MAJOR bonus.
Easy choice for real, thinking Americans. Way to go Arizona voters. I just hope that the rest of the countries voters catch up with Arizona. The choice should be so simple.
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All that I can say is.......... Duuuuh!
Healthcare reform further bankrupts our country.
Immigration reform..............gets rid of illegals that are bankrupting our country and keeps them out. The security from actually protecting our borders is also a MAJOR bonus.
Easy choice for real, thinking Americans. Way to go Arizona voters. I just hope that the rest of the countries voters catch up with Arizona. The choice should be so simple.
That's one of the biggest problems with Congress today. It's nothing but a bunch of lawyers. We all know how they work. Take an idea that should take 15-20 pages to completely explain, and turn it into a 1300 page monstrosity that no one can read. (let alone understand) So they don't read it. No one knows what's in it. And then they act "surprised" when people are upset to find out what was passed.
Give them the choice between hanging and firing squad, and by the time it comes out of committee we would have a resolution granting then immunity and allowing them to keep their benefits. No one in congress has the the courage to make the obvious, (read correct) choices. They are too worried about alienating some special interest.
I was hoping that the surge in "assault" weapons sales would make some these asshats take a step back and consider what the 2A was REALLY written for, but it is becoming obvious that those in power no longer have ANY fear of We the People. Which is the root of the whole problem.
The "silent majority" is becoming more and more vocal. Those in power would do well to listen. We have been silent because we've all been so busy making this country what it is. Now we see that hard work being perverted, and we will not allow them to take away any more of what WE accomplished and use it to destroy us further.
Ok, got a little off topic. I just see all of the problems being linked to the same cause. CORRUPTION, COMPLACENCY, AND INCOMPETENCE.
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It's nothing but a bunch of lawyers. We all know how they work. Take an idea that should take 15-20 pages to completely explain, and turn it into a 1300 page monstrosity that no one can read. (let alone understand)
Think credit card contracts. I once heard an interview where a Lady said she had no clue what all that crap meant.
The scary part was that she was a Professor of contract law. ???
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That's one of the biggest problems with Congress today. It's nothing but a bunch of lawyers. We all know how they work. Take an idea that should take 15-20 pages to completely explain, and turn it into a 1300 page monstrosity that no one can read. (let alone understand) So they don't read it. No one knows what's in it. And then they act "surprised" when people are upset to find out what was passed.
Give them the choice between hanging and firing squad, and by the time it comes out of committee we would have a resolution granting then immunity and allowing them to keep their benefits. No one in congress has the the courage to make the obvious, (read correct) choices. They are too worried about alienating some special interest.
I was hoping that the surge in "assault" weapons sales would make some these asshats take a step back and consider what the 2A was REALLY written for, but it is becoming obvious that those in power no longer have ANY fear of We the People. Which is the root of the whole problem.
The "silent majority" is becoming more and more vocal. Those in power would do well to listen. We have been silent because we've all been so busy making this country what it is. Now we see that hard work being perverted, and we will not allow them to take away any more of what WE accomplished and use it to destroy us further.
Ok, got a little off topic. I just see all of the problems being linked to the same cause. CORRUPTION, COMPLACENCY, AND INCOMPETENCE.
JC, you're right on the money...it's all 'linked' when looking at the boobs in DC.
And for what it's worth, you hit the nail squarely on the head with your comment.
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Not "Incompetence", not on BO's part any way. He is very shrewdly using the Financial mess that the Dems created, to push through spending bills disguised as "Stimulus", Nationalization of key industries,and heightened class and racial tensions, to put America more in line with European Socialism. "Obamacare" is just another facet of that. Unfortunately America is not the one that will benefit from this, it will remove all the advantages for European money to invest in America that have existed while America remained basically a free market economy and Europe, led by France, became ever more Socialist.
His objective is to disenfranchise the top 25% of Income earners who currently pay 86% of taxes, but under the BO plan that will increase to 100% leaving the remaining 75% of population no reason to care about the tax burden, debt, or budget deficits.
And even before FQ starts his Bush bashing BS, I will point out that after 9-11 GWB, with a Republican Congress staved off the potential economic disaster that the WTC attack could have triggered. It was not until a DEMOCRATIC majority got in that we started getting into troubled times.
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Not "Incompetence", not on BO's part any way. He is very shrewdly using the Financial mess that the Dems created, to push through spending bills disguised as "Stimulus", Nationalization of key industries,and heightened class and racial tensions, to put America more in line with European Socialism. "Obamacare" is just another facet of that. Unfortunately America is not the one that will benefit from this, it will remove all the advantages for European money to invest in America that have existed while America remained basically a free market economy and Europe, led by France, became ever more Socialist.
His objective is to disenfranchise the top 25% of Income earners who currently pay 86% of taxes, but under the BO plan that will increase to 100% leaving the remaining 75% of population no reason to care about the tax burden, debt, or budget deficits.
And even before FQ starts his Bush bashing BS, I will point out that after 9-11 GWB, with a Republican Congress staved off the potential economic disaster that the WTC attack could have triggered. It was not until a DEMOCRATIC majority got in that we started getting into troubled times.
I defer to my previous statements made on another thread.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=8049.10
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No aspect of health care is a federal issue, border security is. I wish the socialist democrats and republicans would figure that out.
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And here, shocking though it may be, I stand in complete agreement. The closest I come to federal healthcare is to allow every CITIZEN to BUY into the federal employee's plan, discounting rates subject to income and assets as we can afford to do so. Beyond that nada. As far as border security, in theory, thats what we have a federal government FOR. If it can't or won't do that, what good is it?
FQ13
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The closest I come to federal healthcare is to allow every CITIZEN to BUY into the federal employee's plan, discounting rates subject to income and assets as we can afford to do so. Beyond that nada.
FQ13
Ummm that is Barry's plan 100%. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
ITS THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability%2C_to_each_according_to_his_need
(http://www.smileyx.com/smilies/mad0228.gif)
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Ummm that is Barry's plan 100%. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
ITS THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability%2C_to_each_according_to_his_need
Not at all, its the same plan many corporations and governments have. Benefits are optional, if you take them, it will be a percentage of salary, more $s as your salary increases. You don't have to take it and options are ala cart beyond the basic (ppo vs hmo, dental or optical etc). Nothing socialist about it. Just a choice like a 401 K with employer matching, take it or dont.
FQ13
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Not at all, its the same plan many corporations and governments have. Benefits are optional, if you take them, it will be a percentage of salary, more $s as your salary increases. You don't have to take it and options are ala cart beyond the basic (ppo vs hmo, dental or optical etc). Nothing socialist about it. Just a choice like a 401 K with employer matching, take it or dont.
FQ13
You are in denial it is a direct quote from old Karl, Das Kapital IIRC
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You are in denial it is a direct quote from old Karl, Das Kapital IIRC
I guess I don't just care that much about quotes. What I DO have a problem with is if Big Brother says this is the way it shall be. If, on the other hand, someone says you can buy into a health policy for 4%+/- of your salary, take it or leave it, I don't feel burdened. If I should be, tell me why. I ain't proud and am always happy to be corrected if I have my facts wrong.
FQ13
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Because it is another step toward the Nationalization of the economy.
It will destroy the Insurance industry. It more or less eliminates health care for older people.
And it increases the level of uncertainty in the investment market, potential investors that we DESPERATELY need to get the economy going again, are sitting on their money due to the fear that their industry will be next to suffer the attentions of the regime.
If Obamacare is so great, how come BO and Congress have their own plan ?
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Because it is another step toward the Nationalization of the economy.
It will destroy the Insurance industry. It more or less eliminates health care for older people.
And it increases the level of uncertainty in the investment market, potential investors that we DESPERATELY need to get the economy going again, are sitting on their money due to the fear that their industry will be next to suffer the attentions of the regime.
If Obamacare is so great, how come BO and Congress have their own plan ?
My whole point is we get to BUY into THEIR plan. I'm not endorseing Obamas package. I oppose it. I did however, participate in a nifty little package a small college and a few local businesses had put toghther to get a better rate. The deal was 4% of your base salary if you wanted in. Then you could pay for extras if you wanted. Still market driven and you could say no and pay for a Dr. on your own if you wanted.
FQ13
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You REALLY need to LISTEN to these 2 clips, The lady is a health care professional and a former Lt. Gov of NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w4f04zrF2s&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnicedeb.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F07%2F20%2Faudio-health-care-advocate-betsy-mccaughey-blasts-obamacares-vicious-assault-on-the-elde&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKD9t-G36w&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnicedeb.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F07%2F20%2Faudio-health-care-advocate-betsy-mccaughey-blasts-obamacares-vicious-assault-on-the-elde&feature=player_embedded
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My whole point is we get to BUY into THEIR plan. I'm not endorseing Obamas package. I oppose it. I did however, participate in a nifty little package a small college and a few local businesses had put toghther to get a better rate. The deal was 4% of your base salary if you wanted in. Then you could pay for extras if you wanted. Still market driven and you could say no and pay for a Dr. on your own if you wanted.
FQ13
We don't get to BUY into anything. There is no choice with Obamacare. It outlaws private insurance.
What health care bill are you reading from. It states very clearly that insurance companies will not be allowed to issue new policies. And if you make ANY change to your current plan.....YOUR OUT. Now you have to go to the government for your health care. So explain to me how that is NOT a government takeover. How is that NOT forcing me into a government program? Oh and don't forget, if you decide to go without health care, you will be penalized on your taxes!
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We don't get to BUY into anything. There is no choice with Obamacare. It outlaws private insurance.
What health care bill are you reading from. It states very clearly that insurance companies will not be allowed to issue new policies. And if you make ANY change to your current plan.....YOUR OUT. Now you have to go to the government for your health care. So explain to me how that is NOT a government takeover. How is that NOT forcing me into a government program? Oh and don't forget, if you decide to go without health care, you will be penalized on your taxes!
OK
One last time. I AM NOT ENDORSING OBAMA CARE! I OPPOSE IT! I simpy offered as an alternative being allowed to buy into the federal employee plan if you choose to. Period. Full stop. No more.
FQ13 who hopes he is clear on this point
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OK, but I need to throw this out for general knowledge.
There are currently not enough Drs and nurses to serve the 253 million insured NOW, all the money in the world cannot change that in less than 8 - 10 years. Add another 20% or 47 million people, and cap the wages of Drs and Nurses which will make those professions far less attractive, and the ONLY possible way to keep up with demand will be rationing of services, and a brutal triage system that puts elders out on the ice in favor of younger patients and the "under served" minority population.
While the financial arrangements are some what different, it is the same system that has worked so well in Canada.
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OK, but I need to throw this out for general knowledge.
There are currently not enough Drs and nurses to serve the 253 million insured NOW, all the money in the world cannot change that in less than 8 - 10 years. Add another 20% or 47 million people, and cap the wages of Drs and Nurses which will make those professions far less attractive, and the ONLY possible way to keep up with demand will be rationing of services, and a brutal triage system that puts elders out on the ice in favor of younger patients and the "under served" minority population.
While the financial arrangements are some what different, it is the same system that has worked so well in Canada.
You raise a valid point, but there is a very easy solution. Have medical schools lower their standards. What? Let morons in? No. Its just that med schools are run by Dr.s who know damn well that scarcity of a commodity drives up the price. They are no different than electrician's unions who make it hard to get a union card so as to limit the supply and keep wages artficially high. Obviousley there need to be standards, but not standards set so high that folks are artificially kept out of the system to reduce competition. Think I'm making this up? Look at bar exams. Ca is universally recognized as being the hardest to pass and Pa as being the easiest. Is it because Ca. law is that much harder than Pa. law? No. Its because more folks want to live in LA than Philly. The Ca. bar wants to limit the number of lawyers they have to compete with and so they set up a bitch of a test.
FQ13
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OK
One last time. I AM NOT ENDORSING OBAMA CARE! I OPPOSE IT! I simpy offered as an alternative being allowed to buy into the federal employee plan if you choose to. Period. Full stop. No more.
FQ13 who hopes he is clear on this point
You dont think you are endorsing Obamacare, but that is exactly what you are describing as a desired plan.
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You raise a valid point, but there is a very easy solution. Have medical schools lower their standards. What? Let morons in? No. Its just that med schools are run by Dr.s who know damn well that scarcity of a commodity drives up the price. They are no different than electrician's unions who make it hard to get a union card so as to limit the supply and keep wages artficially high. Obviousley there need to be standards, but not standards set so high that folks are artificially kept out of the system to reduce competition. Think I'm making this up? Look at bar exams. Ca is universally recognized as being the hardest to pass and Pa as being the easiest. Is it because Ca. law is that much harder than Pa. law? No. Its because more folks want to live in LA than Philly. The Ca. bar wants to limit the number of lawyers they have to compete with and so they set up a bitch of a test.
FQ13
Dont worry, there will be lower standards..... as well as race based quotas that will lower standards even further in order to meet those quotas:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=7968.0
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You dont think you are endorsing Obamacare, but that is exactly what you are describing as a desired plan.
No Eric, his comes with compulsary enrollment, denial of private alternatives etc. I just say that it should be available like Blue Cross. There's a world of difference.
FQ13
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It's nothing but a bunch of lawyers. We all know how they work. Take an idea that should take 15-20 pages to completely explain, and turn it into a 1300 page monstrosity that no one can read. (let alone understand)
Think credit card contracts. I once heard an interview where a Lady said she had no clue what all that crap meant.
The scary part was that she was a Professor of contract law. ???
My daddy taught me a simple rule of thumb that has served me quite well over the years. "If you don't understand it, don't frickin sign it!!"
It really is a pity that common sense is SO uncommon.
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My daddy taught me a simple rule of thumb that has served me quite well over the years. "If you don't understand it, don't frickin sign it!!"
It really is a pity that common sense is SO uncommon.
Trouble is TT, we don't get a choice. Ain't like visa is going to sit down and go over the fine print with you. You dont want to sign, fine. See how far you get without a visa card. As Mark Twain said, they're smiling like a Christian holding 4 aces. The rest of us are just hoping for a reach around. :-\
FQ13
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Trouble is TT, we don't get a choice. Ain't like visa is going to sit down and go over the fine print with you. You dont want to sign, fine. See how far you get without a visa card.
FQ13
FQ, don't let your mouth write checks your ass can't cash pal! ;D
I went nearly 10 years without a single credit card, not one! If you have the will to give it a try, it's well worth the effort. I have one now but almost never use them. I'll never apply for another! There is only one winner in the credit card business and it ain't the consumer!
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As Mark Twain said, they're smiling like a Christian holding 4 aces
Not really caring for that, even though it might be a quote from Mark Twain. Now if you want to change "Christian" to "Catholic", then I could relate a little better, lol. ;D Just kidding. ;)
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As Mark Twain said, they're smiling like a Christian holding 4 aces.
You haven't seen my poker face, have you? ;D ;D ;D
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FQ, don't let your mouth write checks your ass can't cash pal! ;D
I went nearly 10 years without a single credit card, not one! If you have the will to give it a try, it's well worth the effort. I have one now but almost never use them. I'll never apply for another! There is only one winner in the credit card business and it ain't the consumer!
Timothy, my ass wants to book a hotel, rent a car and get a plane ticket. Try that without a credit card. I don't use mine much either (I learned that lesson the hard way when I was young). The point is, Visa holds all the cards.
FQ13
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Timothy, my ass wants to book a hotel, rent a car and get a plane ticket. Try that without a credit card. I don't use mine much either (I learned that lesson the hard way when I was young). The point is, Visa holds all the cards.
FQ13
You can do all those things without a credit card. I've a separate account that I use for these things linked to a debit card. I don't fly anymore, granted, but that's my choice. Renting cars has never been a problem. Just a large deposit involved. It's doable, you just can't let these assholes run your life. Adjustments may need to be made but basically, it "ain't no thang!"
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You raise a valid point, but there is a very easy solution. Have medical schools lower their standards. What? Let morons in? No. Its just that med schools are run by Dr.s who know damn well that scarcity of a commodity drives up the price. They are no different than electrician's unions who make it hard to get a union card so as to limit the supply and keep wages artficially high. Obviousley there need to be standards, but not standards set so high that folks are artificially kept out of the system to reduce competition. Think I'm making this up? Look at bar exams. Ca is universally recognized as being the hardest to pass and Pa as being the easiest. Is it because Ca. law is that much harder than Pa. law? No. Its because more folks want to live in LA than Philly. The Ca. bar wants to limit the number of lawyers they have to compete with and so they set up a bitch of a test.
FQ13
That still won't have any effect for at least 8 years, so you're still stuck with rationing care, and the ONLY way the plan could lower costs is by capping Dr.'s pay which means fewer people would be interested in the job any way. This means that even with lowered standards Schools will not be turning out any more Dr.'s.
As a side note with the current HIGH standards Dr.'s mistakes kill about 180,000 people per year. Lowere the standards even further and the will rival Cancer as the leading cause of death in America.
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Timothy, my ass wants to book a hotel, rent a car and get a plane ticket. Try that without a credit card. I don't use mine much either (I learned that lesson the hard way when I was young). The point is, Visa holds all the cards.
FQ13
I also haven't used a credit card in 6 or 7 years, don't have one, won't get one. If cash isn't good enough for them they are violating federal law, and I try to avoid doing business with criminals.
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OK, but I need to throw this out for general knowledge.
There are currently not enough Drs and nurses to serve the 253 million insured NOW, all the money in the world cannot change that in less than 8 - 10 years. .............
Hey OK......it's history time. What professional organization lobbied what president in what century to cap school enrollment for schools taking federal $'s? Time's up....AMA, Clinton, 19th Century...about a decade ago.
Question: What do you call the guy in medical school who is dead last in his class?
Answer: Doctor
Ugly truth coming up....lots of nepotism to get into med school. It's not about the good grades..though some are let through. It's become a family trade for many...and I personally know two doctors that should have been passed over for med school over better qualified friends because DOD (dear old dad) was an alum.
This medical log jam can be fixed. Increase enrollment...can't afford it...easy solution. 95% of students must have the highest grades and 5% can be accepted with lesser grades under review...oops...junior needs to get in. You can only get so many juniors (junior in the sense of DOD's boy) in...school must expand...alums cough up cash to expand school so the 5% number gets larger by virtue of a larger base. But the government loses control...the AMA starts screaming for larger schools......it will work. the 95 and 5 may actually be 90 and 10 or something...but you get the point.
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Timothy, my ass wants to book a hotel, rent a car and get a plane ticket. Try that without a credit card. I don't use mine much either (I learned that lesson the hard way when I was young). The point is, Visa holds all the cards.
FQ13
They also have VISA/MC/AMEX pre-paid cards that you can get with cash from many banks and any drug store or even wally world. Works like a credit card but is basically plastic cash. Might not be able to book a hotel, but should work most anywhere else. I do know they work online.
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Hey OK......it's history time. What professional organization lobbied what president in what century to cap school enrollment for schools taking federal $'s? Time's up....AMA, Clinton, 19th Century...about a decade ago.
Question: What do you call the guy in medical school who is dead last in his class?
Answer: Doctor
Ugly truth coming up....lots of nepotism to get into med school. It's not about the good grades..though some are let through. It's become a family trade for many...and I personally know two doctors that should have been passed over for med school over better qualified friends because DOD (dear old dad) was an alum.
This medical log jam can be fixed. Increase enrollment...can't afford it...easy solution. 95% of students must have the highest grades and 5% can be accepted with lesser grades under review...oops...junior needs to get in. You can only get so many juniors (junior in the sense of DOD's boy) in...school must expand...alums cough up cash to expand school so the 5% number gets larger by virtue of a larger base. But the government loses control...the AMA starts screaming for larger schools......it will work. the 95 and 5 may actually be 90 and 10 or something...but you get the point.
There is one huge problem with your very good idea that will prevent the current regime from ever considering it.
The actual objective of everything the current "race based" regime does is to INCREASE DEM control.
That is why BO implemented a "stimulus" spending program that was sure to fail, a medical plan that cannot work, Amnesty for illegal aliens, White house oversight of ACORNs census operation and attacking talk radio through FCC licensing policies.
The goal is not recovery, or "improving America" but in fact, turning America into a socialist state run by Dems and disenfranchising the wealthy and any one else who opposes them.
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There is one huge problem with your very good idea that will prevent the current regime from ever considering it.
The actual objective of everything the current "race based" regime does is to INCREASE DEM control.
That is why BO implemented a "stimulus" spending program that was sure to fail, a medical plan that cannot work, Amnesty for illegal aliens, White house oversight of ACORNs census operation and attacking talk radio through FCC licensing policies.
The goal is not recovery, or "improving America" but in fact, turning America into a socialist state run by Dems and disenfranchising the wealthy and any one else who opposes them.
I'm conjuring images of "Soylent Green"........... :(
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I'm conjuring images of "Soylent Green"........... :(
Don't get me started on the Health Care Bill ! ! ! :-X
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That still won't have any effect for at least 8 years, so you're still stuck with rationing care, and the ONLY way the plan could lower costs is by capping Dr.'s pay which means fewer people would be interested in the job any way. This means that even with lowered standards Schools will not be turning out any more Dr.'s.
As a side note with the current HIGH standards Dr.'s mistakes kill about 180,000 people per year. Lowere the standards even further and the will rival Cancer as the leading cause of death in America.
In re Dr.'s mistakes: Note the hours that residents work. I dated a trauma surgeon (7 year internship). She was routinley working hundred hour a week shifts. Her idea of a day "off" was getting home at 5am and not having to to report back until midnight the next day (though she was still on call). Does this make any sense? Can anyone expect someone to do their best under those conditions? The medical community does. And it's all about limiting the number of practioners. She made a butt load of money but had no time to spend it. What's the point? I got a lot more enjoyment out of my $40k as a teacher than her $90k as a Dr.
FQ13
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In re Dr.'s mistakes: Note the hours that residents work. I dated a trauma surgeon (7 year internship). She was routinley working hundred hour a week shifts. Her idea of a day "off" was getting home at 5am and not having to to report back until midnight the next day (though she was still on call). Does this make any sense? Can anyone expect someone to do their best under those conditions? The medical community does. And it's all about limiting the number of practioners. She made a butt load of money but had no time to spend it. What's the point? I got a lot more enjoyment out of my $40k as a teacher than her $90k as a Dr.
FQ13
Your point emphasizes why doctors are killing people. My surgeon's were all kids under 35, working their asses off for the wankers that are teaching them. The overworked, under trained kids are the ones killing folks in emergency rooms and trauma centers, not the doc's with the 500K salaries sitting in the office who should be held accountable. This won't get any better any time soon.
BTW, 90 grand ain't a lot of money in today's market. After taxes, she wasn't taking home much more than you were. Equate that salary to 100 hour weeks and what she making an hour, 18 bucks....entry level brake operator makes that much in my shop.
The systems broke, social health care won't fix it. I don't have the answers, just the scars!