Most Arizona Voters Put Immigration Over Health Care as More Important Reform Go

[fightingquaker13]

Ummm that is Barry's plan 100%. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

ITS THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability%2C_to_each_according_to_his_need

Not at all, its the same plan many corporations and governments have. Benefits are optional, if you take them, it will be a percentage of salary, more $s as your salary increases. You don't have to take it and options are ala cart beyond the basic (ppo vs hmo, dental or optical etc). Nothing socialist about it. Just a choice like a 401 K with employer matching, take it or dont.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

Not at all, its the same plan many corporations and governments have. Benefits are optional, if you take them, it will be a percentage of salary, more $s as your salary increases. You don't have to take it and options are ala cart beyond the basic (ppo vs hmo, dental or optical etc). Nothing socialist about it. Just a choice like a 401 K with employer matching, take it or dont.
FQ13

You are in denial it is a direct quote from old Karl, Das Kapital IIRC

[fightingquaker13]

You are in denial it is a direct quote from old Karl, Das Kapital IIRC

I guess I don't just care that much about quotes. What I DO have a problem with is if Big Brother says this is the way it shall be. If, on the other hand, someone says you can buy into a health policy for 4%+/- of your salary, take it or leave it, I don't feel burdened. If I should be, tell me why. I ain't proud and am always happy to be corrected if I have my facts wrong.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

 Because it is another step toward the Nationalization of the economy.
It will destroy the Insurance industry. It more or less eliminates health care for older people.
And it increases the level of uncertainty in the investment market, potential investors that we DESPERATELY need to  get the economy going again, are sitting on their money due to the fear that their industry will be next to suffer the attentions of the regime.
If Obamacare is so great, how come BO and Congress have their own plan ?

[fightingquaker13]

Because it is another step toward the Nationalization of the economy.
It will destroy the Insurance industry. It more or less eliminates health care for older people.
And it increases the level of uncertainty in the investment market, potential investors that we DESPERATELY need to  get the economy going again, are sitting on their money due to the fear that their industry will be next to suffer the attentions of the regime.
If Obamacare is so great, how come BO and Congress have their own plan ?

My whole point is we get to BUY into THEIR plan. I'm not endorseing Obamas package. I oppose it. I did however, participate in a nifty little package a small college and a few local businesses had put toghther to get a better rate. The deal was 4% of your base salary if you wanted in. Then you could pay for extras if you wanted. Still market driven and you could say no and pay for a Dr. on your own if you wanted.
FQ13

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

You REALLY need to LISTEN to these 2 clips, The lady is a health care professional and a former Lt. Gov of NY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w4f04zrF2s&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnicedeb.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F07%2F20%2Faudio-health-care-advocate-betsy-mccaughey-blasts-obamacares-vicious-assault-on-the-elde&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKD9t-G36w&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnicedeb.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F07%2F20%2Faudio-health-care-advocate-betsy-mccaughey-blasts-obamacares-vicious-assault-on-the-elde&feature=player_embedded

[JC5123]

My whole point is we get to BUY into THEIR plan. I'm not endorseing Obamas package. I oppose it. I did however, participate in a nifty little package a small college and a few local businesses had put toghther to get a better rate. The deal was 4% of your base salary if you wanted in. Then you could pay for extras if you wanted. Still market driven and you could say no and pay for a Dr. on your own if you wanted.
FQ13

We don't get to BUY into anything. There is no choice with Obamacare. It outlaws private insurance.
What health care bill are you reading from. It states very clearly that insurance companies will not be allowed to issue new policies. And if you make ANY change to your current plan.....YOUR OUT. Now you have to go to the government for your health care. So explain to me how that is NOT a government takeover. How is that NOT forcing me into a government program? Oh and don't forget, if you decide to go without health care, you will be penalized on your taxes!

[fightingquaker13]

We don't get to BUY into anything. There is no choice with Obamacare. It outlaws private insurance.
What health care bill are you reading from. It states very clearly that insurance companies will not be allowed to issue new policies. And if you make ANY change to your current plan.....YOUR OUT. Now you have to go to the government for your health care. So explain to me how that is NOT a government takeover. How is that NOT forcing me into a government program? Oh and don't forget, if you decide to go without health care, you will be penalized on your taxes!

OK
One last time. I AM NOT ENDORSING OBAMA CARE! I OPPOSE IT! I simpy offered as an alternative being allowed to buy into the federal employee plan if you choose to. Period. Full stop. No more.
FQ13 who hopes he is clear on this point

[tombogan03884]

OK, but I need to throw this out for general knowledge.
There are currently not enough Drs and nurses to serve the 253 million  insured NOW, all the money in the world cannot change that in less than 8 - 10 years. Add another 20% or 47 million people, and cap the wages of Drs and Nurses which will make those professions far less attractive, and the ONLY possible way to keep up with demand will be rationing of services, and a brutal triage system that puts elders out on the ice in favor of younger patients and the "under served" minority population.
While the financial arrangements are some what different, it is the same system that has worked so well in Canada.

[fightingquaker13]

OK, but I need to throw this out for general knowledge.
There are currently not enough Drs and nurses to serve the 253 million  insured NOW, all the money in the world cannot change that in less than 8 - 10 years. Add another 20% or 47 million people, and cap the wages of Drs and Nurses which will make those professions far less attractive, and the ONLY possible way to keep up with demand will be rationing of services, and a brutal triage system that puts elders out on the ice in favor of younger patients and the "under served" minority population.
While the financial arrangements are some what different, it is the same system that has worked so well in Canada.

You raise a valid point, but there is a very easy solution. Have medical schools lower their standards. What? Let morons in? No. Its just that med schools are run by Dr.s who know damn well that scarcity of a commodity drives up the price. They are no different than electrician's unions who make it hard to get a union card so as to limit the supply and keep wages artficially high. Obviousley there need to be standards, but not standards set so high that folks are artificially kept out of the system to reduce competition. Think I'm making this up? Look at bar exams. Ca is universally recognized as being the hardest to pass and Pa as being the easiest. Is it because Ca. law is that much harder than Pa. law? No. Its because more folks want to live in LA than Philly. The Ca. bar wants to limit the number of lawyers they have to compete with and so they set up a bitch of a test.
FQ13