The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: turkeydad on August 31, 2009, 06:56:15 PM
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can slugs be shot out of fixed modified chokes and modified choke tubes? just wondering for quick home defense if unable to change out choke tube. don't own rifled choke tube, or slug barrel.
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No, No and No... welcome turkeydad. Slugs turn a shotgun into a bullet firing firearm. Albeit a large one. chokes can damage the firearm, and/or the shooter.
Slugs can be fired from "full cylinder bore" NO CHOKE actions, do not take the chance on firing a Remington Slugger through a barrel with any type of choke.
Chokes are designed for "shot" and pattern,....launching a 2 3/4" or 3" sabot slug/bullet, needs all the barrel it can get.
For SD, check the archives here, including Rob Pincus's analysis on home defense shotguns.. No. 2, through No. 9 shot at SD ranges, within a home, are totally adequate. Usually less than 21 feet.
I like No. 2, 9 pellet Winchester Super X 2 3/4", staggered with No. 4, 21 pellet, with slugs as the last couple in my Rem 870..
It has to hold them off long enough for the wife to get the safe open,... Unless its Zombies, it should be good enough.
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Hey TW, love ya, but maybe you misunderstood the question.
Modern shotguns can shoot slugs from any choke choice, maybe not to its best benefit, but safely. As Tw is mentioning, slugs are definitely not the 1st choice in HD or SD, past 20 yrds then maybe, if the situation demands more accuracy or hard hitting projectile, like shooting through a car door.
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drop by the new member's thread
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Rifled slugs can be shot safely through any choke in a modern shotgun, the "rifling" on the slug isn't there to impart spin, but to swage down when going through a tight choked barrel. Think about it, a slug is made of soft lead, the choke and barrel is made out of hardened steel, which is going to give first.
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It's okay to shoot slugs out of any choke except TURKEY chokes. You'll probably get better performance out of an improved cylinder.
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I shoot slugs through an improved cylinder choke all the time with no ill effects.
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I don't know about all slugs, but many are in the .50 caliber range.
If a 12ga. open bore is around .720" give or take (?), with a decrease in diameter with each choke designation from Open (.720") down to Full (.680" ?) then slugs should be OK.
However, not all dimensions are exactly the same from one manufacturer to another and may vary by several thousandths, but should not be effectual.
If you have screw-in chokes, check 'em....it's stamped into to choke. Look on the slug box and it should give the slug diameter.
If you have a regular barrel, check with the manufacturer for actual choke dimensions.....OR, measure with a dial caliper.
Some additional info:
http://www.kwacs.org.uk/barrels&choke.htm
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Mossberg 500, 28" smoothbore modified chock barrel, Remington 2 3/4" saboted slugs, 1" groups at 100 yards consistantly. WITH WITNESSES! ;D
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Mossberg 500, 28" smoothbore modified chock barrel, Remington 2 3/4" saboted slugs, 1" groups at 100 yards consistantly. WITH WITNESSES! ;D
Group of 1? ;D
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Mossberg 500, 28" smoothbore modified chock barrel, Remington 2 3/4" saboted slugs, 1" groups at 100 yards consistantly. WITH WITNESSES! ;D
Are you shooting sabot slugs in a smooth bore? I wouldn't think that it'd be worth the extra price.
I shoot my slugs in a Benelli with screw-in chokes - no problem, but like I said, improved cyl.
I'm waiting my 10 days on my new house clearing gun and couldn't wait until I can take pictures of it myself. I get one of these on the 5th.
(http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/52438.JPG)
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I'd got a box of the shells on clearance at KMart at the end of the season. Tried them out at the range, went back and bought all they had! ;D
I've had the gun for 23 years. Something around 2,000 rounds or more through it, never had a FTF, jam, or one single problem yet. I've heard Moss'ys even older than mine had a single rail on the for-arm, and were prone to problems. Dont know. :-\
I've also got an 870 that fits me better than any gun I own, or have ever even picked up, but the Mossberg is better IMO because it doesnt pinch your thumb when loading the magazine (STUPID design on Remington's part), and the Mossberg has operated smoother, and more solidly from day one. Just my opinion.
The 870's still a fine gun too!
Chokes I've got for it (Marbles front bead, fugly Remington camo):
Remington "Breacher" "cylinder" choke on top, "Jelly Head" "super full" on bottom.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000976.jpg)
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So, you shotgun hunters explain to me why .410 slugs have not been developed into the premier hunting round ???
I would think that you could use the smaller .410 to get closer to true rifle performance then the enormously heavy 12 gauge slugs. It seems to me that all that ridiculous amount of weight in the 12 ga slugs is what really puts the limitations on shotgun hunting as far as range is concerned. I would think, that you could use .410 to get a lighter slug with a greater ballistic coefficient, and have more then enough room for the need gunpowder.
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I'd got a box of the shells on clearance at KMart at the end of the season. Tried them out at the range, went back and bought all they had! ;D
I've had the gun for 23 years. Something around 2,000 rounds or more through it, never had a FTF, jam, or one single problem yet. I've heard Moss'ys even older than mine had a single rail on the for-arm, and were prone to problems. Dont know. :-\
I've also got an 870 that fits me better than any gun I own, or have ever even picked up, but the Mossberg is better IMO because it doesnt pinch your thumb when loading the magazine (STUPID design on Remington's part), and the Mossberg has operated smoother, and more solidly from day one. Just my opinion.
The 870's still a fine gun too!
Chokes I've got for it (Marbles front bead, fugly Remington camo):
Remington "Breacher" "cylinder" choke on top, "Jelly Head" "super full" on bottom.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000976.jpg)
I bought a Mossberg 500 in the mid 80's BECAUSE it had twin rails. And this spring I picked a Mossy over Remington for the same price for the same reason.
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So, you shotgun hunters explain to me why .410 slugs have not been developed into the premier hunting round ???
I would think that you could use the smaller .410 to get closer to true rifle performance then the enormously heavy 12 gauge slugs. It seems to me that all that ridiculous amount of weight in the 12 ga slugs is what really puts the limitations on shotgun hunting as far as range is concerned. I would think, that you could use .410 to get a lighter slug with a greater ballistic coefficient, and have more then enough room for the need gunpowder.
I know .410's legal to hunt deer with in MI. But not in some other states.
What you have confidence in, and are comftorble with goes a looooonnnng way in shooting accuracy / a good hunt.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010071.jpg?t=1251855709)
12 Gauge, 3 1/2" chamber, 18" full choke barrel, hair trigger & Marbles front bead, removed lead "recoil reducer" from stock. Load'er up with "Magnum Turkey" #6 shot, and go looking for grouse, pheasant, turkey, chipmunks, godzilla, anything you want! Possibly the most fun to shoot gun I'll ever own! LOVE IT!!! Yes it scares me, no I dont flinch. JUST SUCK IT UP AND RELOAD! ;D ;D ;D
As my dad puts it. "Kills in front, cripples behind." ;D It's just to much fun! ;D ;D ;D
Wouldnt a steel butt plate be fun?!? I might even give it up at that point!
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So, you shotgun hunters explain to me why .410 slugs have not been developed into the premier hunting round ???
I would think that you could use the smaller .410 to get closer to true rifle performance then the enormously heavy 12 gauge slugs. It seems to me that all that ridiculous amount of weight in the 12 ga slugs is what really puts the limitations on shotgun hunting as far as range is concerned. I would think, that you could use .410 to get a lighter slug with a greater ballistic coefficient, and have more then enough room for the need gunpowder.
I hunted with one guy that went with a .410. He bought the gun on the tails that you could run .45's through it >:( We convinced him it was not safe to do that, but now all he had was a .410 to hunt with ::)
I've been down range and heard 12 and 20 gauge slugs tumble. Doesn't seem to matter how "good" the ammo or the gun, they all seem to start tumbling at some point. The same thing happened with his .410. He took a shot at a doe, and all I heard from where I was posted was whoop, whoop, whoop ... thud. He hit the deer in what I would call a "good enough" spot, but didn't drop the deer. After another guy dropped it, we found the .410 slug in the close side lung, while the 12 gauge had passed all the way through.
I haven't dug deep enough into it, but I believe that a .410 may have good ballistics at the muzzle, but they may bleed energy too fast to be good at any range.
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Back on the thought of chokes with slugs:
I am a believer in either using a slug barrel (either smooth or rifled) or a cylinder choke. I have heard of old guns splitting barrels (one of our firearm safety demo barrels was a result of slug through full choke). I have also heard of a rifled choke tube being ripped from its threads (the theory is that the threads may have been weak to start and the force of the slug resisting the spin broke it all loose).
Regardless of what should work, when it comes to firearms I will always error on the side of caution. When I have seen proof of one issue, and heard reports from sources I trust I will stay with what I know all manufacturers recommend ... Cylinder choke!
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Cylinder bore or rifled barrel or choke tube specific for slugs, tend to be most accurate, but Herb Parsons, told us in the 50's " slugs will not hurt your gun" if they do, something is wrong with the gun, not the ammo, the ammo makers take all of this into consideration, and make their product accordingly. Would you only shoot .38 spl, in your .357 because it might be a problem?
I mentioned modern guns, that does mean like since I was born. Like when Herb was still alive. Jeez I am getting old.
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There are LOTS of slug guns out there shooting VERY accurately at 200 yards. How much farther would anybody be taking game at? ??? Granted people in arizona (where it was 107 degrees yesterday!!!) shoot ground rats and such at much greater distances. But, for game big enough to use a slug on I think 3" groups at 200 yards will more than get the job done. Especially when your projectile hits like a brick turned sideways (all but a very lucky few of us wont be hunting mountain goats regularly either). I LOVE long range shooting! But, if you cant get within 200 yards of game... Better to leave the hunting to the wife.
Shotguns wont be as trendy as AR's EVER, no matter what magazines, movies, government, or TV were to do. To much recoil. ::)
BUT, surfing channels on Saturdays it seems to now be illegal to use anything but Thompson Center rifles on tv. Marketing single shots has got to be tough in a nearly all AR market. Wonder how much TC's paying people?
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K, not so much about slugs. But if you want to learn about chokes...
http://www.wildfowlmag.com/tips_strategies/shotgun_062304/
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Cylinder bore or rifled barrel or choke tube specific for slugs, tend to be most accurate, but Herb Parsons, told us in the 50's " slugs will not hurt your gun" if they do, something is wrong with the gun, not the ammo, the ammo makers take all of this into consideration, and make their product accordingly. Would you only shoot .38 spl, in your .357 because it might be a problem?
I mentioned modern guns, that does mean like since I was born. Like when Herb was still alive. Jeez I am getting old.
The book for the Winchester 1300 I bought in 1990 said cylinder only for slugs.
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Rem.y's manual recommends improved cylinder (on the choke package too).
More good info. http://www.briley.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=133
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I hunted with one guy that went with a .410. He bought the gun on the tails that you could run .45's through it >:( We convinced him it was not safe to do that, but now all he had was a .410 to hunt with ::)
I've been down range and heard 12 and 20 gauge slugs tumble. Doesn't seem to matter how "good" the ammo or the gun, they all seem to start tumbling at some point. The same thing happened with his .410. He took a shot at a doe, and all I heard from where I was posted was whoop, whoop, whoop ... thud. He hit the deer in what I would call a "good enough" spot, but didn't drop the deer. After another guy dropped it, we found the .410 slug in the close side lung, while the 12 gauge had passed all the way through.
I haven't dug deep enough into it, but I believe that a .410 may have good ballistics at the muzzle, but they may bleed energy too fast to be good at any range.
If I was shotgun hunting for large game I would choose the 12 ga over .410 because it will give superior range and knock down power..... But I think that is because ammo manufacturers have used their R&D resources to push the 12 ga slug to its maximum potential, and have ignored the .410 (greater consumer demand for 12 ga has dictated it)..... I just believe that if they poured the same R&D money into .410 slugs, they might be able to get closer to true rifle performance since they should be able to use slugs that are closer in weight and ballistic coefficient to rifle bullets then the bricks that 12 ga slugs are.
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If they do lots of research they could come up with a .410 slug that's almost as good as a .38 Spl. That's about it. 410's a nice pistol round so that's all I use it for.
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If I was shotgun hunting for large game I would choose the 12 ga over .410 because it will give superior range and knock down power..... But I think that is because ammo manufacturers have used their R&D resources to push the 12 ga slug to its maximum potential, and have ignored the .410 (greater consumer demand for 12 ga has dictated it)..... I just believe that if they poured the same R&D money into .410 slugs, they might be able to get closer to true rifle performance since they should be able to use slugs that are closer in weight and ballistic coefficient to rifle bullets then the bricks that 12 ga slugs are.
Sounds to me like you've got a really good reason to start hand loading some .410 slug rounds! ;D
Some research and experimenting on powders and such should net you what your looking for. Do they make .410 rifled slug guns? A FINE reason to pick one up if you dont have it yet as well! ;D ;D ;D
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http://hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big%20410%20Ballistics.html
DANG! I'm impressed!!! 3/4" groups at 100 yards!
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http://hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big%20410%20Ballistics.html
DANG! I'm impressed!!! 3/4" groups at 100 yards!
Thats still with a 375 gr slug with a terrible ballistic coefficient..... bring that down to what is really necessary/more commonly used (100-150 gr) and you could probably get that kind of performance out well past 100yds. It seems to also have a pretty good trajectory for just a 100 yard zero.
Using a smaller projectile, zeroing at maybe 200 yards, and possibly using more powder could produce some serious rifle-like results..... not to mention if you could use slugs made to the same performance standards that 12 ga slugs are today, and gains that would be had by reducing drag and improving the ballistic coefficient.
*Hell, I dont know why you couldnt just take a standard .30 caliber bullet and sabot it to make up for the difference in bore size ;D
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Thats still with a 375 gr slug with a terrible ballistic coefficient..... bring that down to what is really necessary/more commonly used (100-150 gr) and you could probably get that kind of performance out well past 100yds. It seems to also have a pretty good trajectory for just a 100 yard zero.
Using a smaller projectile, zeroing at maybe 200 yards, and possibly using more powder could produce some serious rifle-like results..... not to mention if you could use slugs made to the same performance standards that 12 ga slugs are today.
Why not just use a rifle to get rifle like results ?
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Why not just use a rifle to get rifle like results ?
Illegal in a lot of states..... many only have "Shotgun Only" deer hunting.
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Somehow this doesn't surprise me. Maybe because I am not a hand loader.
It reminds me of people that say a .357 from a rifle isn't very good for deer at 100 to 150 yards. Ask them if a .357 handgun will drop a deer at 10 feet and they say "sure", then show them that from a rifle the velocity and energy at 100 yards is the same or better and they are surprised.
So why couldn't a .410, with today's improved barrels and powders be a great little gun at 100 yards or even more?
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Somehow this doesn't surprise me. Maybe because I am not a hand loader.
It reminds me of people that say a .357 from a rifle isn't very good for deer at 100 to 150 yards. Ask them if a .357 handgun will drop a deer at 10 feet and they say "sure", then show them that from a rifle the velocity and energy at 100 yards is the same or better and they are surprised.
So why couldn't a .410, with today's improved barrels and powders be a great little gun at 100 yards or even more?
Ballistics fall off after 50 yards. Last time I checked, granted it was years ago, but after 50 yards it was dropping almost 1 to 1.
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So why couldn't a .410, with today's improved barrels and powders be a great little gun at 100 yards or even more?
Yeah, but it is more then just that..... just about any shotgun with just about any slug can get you a deer at 100yds.... the question is, can you create something that will take the handcuffs off those hunters that are restricted to shotguns only and allow them to hunt out to 250+ yds? I think, and its 100% theory, that the .410 is the best way to get there. The uber awesome, highly refined 12 ga slugs that are out there now will let you reach out to 150-200 yards (about a 6 1/2 inch drop at 200yds)..... and that is with 260-385 gr slugs
(http://www.remington.com/images/products/ammo/shotshell/accutip_slug.jpg)
(http://www.remington.com/images/products/ammo/shotshell/prcsbox.jpg)
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/slugs/accuTip_bonded_sabot_slug.asp
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I remember reading awhile back about a study regarding shotgun only hunting areas. The study found that shotgun slug use may not be as safe as rifle use. I wish I could find the info. Michigan has a shotgun only zone, but much of the state is open to rifles. You can use pistols in the shotgun zone and there are some qualifications on their use as far as minimum caliber and I think it has to be a straight wall case. I think Indiana recently passed the use of rifles use in pistol calibers only.
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We have a couple "Shotgun only" counties here. The reason is population density, they don't want people using stuff yhat carries to far in order to cut the number of accidental shootings.
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I remember reading awhile back about a study regarding shotgun only hunting areas. The study found that shotgun slug use may not be as safe as rifle use. I wish I could find the info. Michigan has a shotgun only zone, but much of the state is open to rifles. You can use pistols in the shotgun zone and there are some qualifications on their use as far as minimum caliber and I think it has to be a straight wall case. I think Indiana recently passed the use of rifles use in pistol calibers only.
Yeah I read that study too, BW. It concluded that shotguns only areas were no safer than rifle areas. And yeah some places have gone pistol caliber rifle legal in the last year or two.
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At least all the shotgun only zones I've heard of also allow muzzle loaders... STUPID! Today's muzzle loaders are reaching velocities of magnum rifles. The restricting laws are TOTALY out-dated, and either need refining, or done away with. I actually vote for refining, because people are to stupid to not shoot 458 magnums at rabbits when houses are in plane sight.
Same thing applies to rimfires for squirrel. The velocities being hit with rimfires is giving them equal range as anything else, and very few have enough brains and patience to consider whats on the other side of their targets.
Eric, I think your "Magnum Whoop Ass .410 Slug" idea is 100% viable, and would pull a giant segment of the market. SO LONG AS they came out with some kind of futuristic looking, black, semi-auto that was "built to purpose". Then use that gun in a hit movie. SADLY, that's what drives the market. :-\ And thats what would sway people away from other options, more than its performance. :(
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At least all the shotgun only zones I've heard of also allow muzzle loaders... STUPID! Today's muzzle loaders are reaching velocities of magnum rifles. The restricting laws are TOTALY out-dated, and either need refining, or done away with. I actually vote for refining, because people are to stupid to not shoot 458 magnums at rabbits when houses are in plane sight.
Same thing applies to rimfires for squirrel. The velocities being hit with rimfires is giving them equal range as anything else, and very few have enough brains and patience to consider whats on the other side of their targets.
Eric, I think your "Magnum Whoop Ass .410 Slug" idea is 100% viable, and would pull a giant segment of the market. SO LONG AS they came out with some kind of futuristic looking, black, semi-auto that was "built to purpose". Then use that gun in a hit movie. SADLY, that's what drives the market. :-\ And thats what would sway people away from other options, more than its performance. :(
They already have, American Tactical Imports T-14 Uppers to be avaiable soon.now.
http://www.americantactical.us/at14.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZLlYOpqQ4
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Safir_Arms_T-14_Classic_.410_Guage_Upper_Half.html
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At least all the shotgun only zones I've heard of also allow muzzle loaders... STUPID! Today's muzzle loaders are reaching velocities of magnum rifles. The restricting laws are TOTALY out-dated, and either need refining, or done away with. I actually vote for refining, because people are to stupid to not shoot 458 magnums at rabbits when houses are in plane sight.
Same thing applies to rimfires for squirrel. The velocities being hit with rimfires is giving them equal range as anything else, and very few have enough brains and patience to consider whats on the other side of their targets.
Eric, I think your "Magnum Whoop Ass .410 Slug" idea is 100% viable, and would pull a giant segment of the market. SO LONG AS they came out with some kind of futuristic looking, black, semi-auto that was "built to purpose". Then use that gun in a hit movie. SADLY, that's what drives the market. :-\ And thats what would sway people away from other options, more than its performance. :(
You REALLY are not "getting it". If they refine the regulations in "shotgun only" hunting zones to reflect the "more rifle like" performance of todays shotguns and muzzle loaders, they will ban gun hunting in those areas. They might leave handguns, but long guns would not be allowed.
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I think the shotgun only zones SHOULD go to shot shells only, & NO muzzle loaders. I lived in SE Michigan for a LONG time. The houses are now WAY the heii to close for anyone to be throwing slugs around. Especially when every year you have hunters turning in goats for deer. But on the other side of it I think Eric's 100% right in saying .410's have the potential to perform far better than they do. It just needs to be done in a safe area! At leaste the shotgun zone of Michigan is NOT this area! For that matter even cross bow's are bad news there.
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About the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 of Michigan's lower peninsula is a shotgun only zone for deer hunting. There are many areas in this zone where a rifle could safely be used. Granted there are some high density population areas that need to be
taken into account, but the way the citizens are fleeing this state that may not be a problem for much longer. The key to hunting and shooting, using any device, is knowledge and education. There may also be so called hunters out there that may not be able to tell the differance between a deer and a goat, but I have yet to see a goat ever turned in at a deer check station. Your thought to limit hunting opportunites and methods is a no win situation and does nothing but give the antis grist for the mill to ban whatever they can. As far as crossbows go, they are probably the least effective and least dangerous of all the the weapons you have mentioned. I need to verify this yet, but I heard a conversation a few days ago in which it was mentioned that crossbows are now accepted for hunting in Michigan for everyone and not just the handicapped.
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Guys, here in Indiana we can only hunt deer with our bow, shotgun, or pistol in a higher caliber, .357, .44 magnum. Funny how we can go out and blast a coyote with a .223, but can't hunt deer with one.
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What?
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To the best of my knowledge in the shotgun zone in Michigan you can use centerfire rifles for varmit hunting, but not deer.
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To the best of my knowledge in the shotgun zone in Michigan you can use centerfire rifles for varmit hunting, but not deer.
That sounds dumb but it may be the same here in our Shotgun counties, I don't know, Cross bows are not allowed for hunting at all though.
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To the best of my knowledge the theroy is that "Varmit" round "break up" when they hit the critter or the ground and don't carry further or ricochet. At least that was the way it was explained to me.
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To the best of my knowledge the theroy is that "Varmit" round "break up" when they hit the critter or the ground and don't carry further or ricochet. At least that was the way it was explained to me.
Provided that the ground is say, 800 yards away, with nothing between it and the muzzle, thats great. ::) Honesly, I am agnostic on the whole "no rifle" issue. I find it highly annoying, but better to put up with a few restrictions based on safety than to start having collaterall damage that the antis will exploit. I will grumble, but trust the Wildlife departments (mostly). Still I do sleep better at night knowing that a .556 fired at a coyte rather than a deer is safer in the eyes of the law. ;D
FQ13
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All points showing how out-dated, and useless the gun laws are.
When my daughter went through hunters safety over a year ago they said crossbow's had been made legal to hunt with in MI (we were living there then). Bald Mountain, Lapeer State Game Area are easily the two biggest, and most widely used hunting area's in the lower half of MI (the shot gun zone). If anyone tries to tell me its safe to use a .223 to hunt anything in either of those area's they're only proving the point that people are to stupid to govern themselves! :o I've hunted those area's enough to know the land like the back of my hand... Shotguns throwing slugs, muzzle loaders that hit 2,000fps, and crossbow's have NO PLACE in a woods with houses scattered all through and around it!
The fact that anybody is even thinking otherwise makes me feel 1000 times better that I'm not in that woods anymore! ::) Thank God we made it out of there alive!!!
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M16 style Tactical shotgun T-14 from Safir Arms Turkey (http://www.safirarms.com/eng.html will hit the market by January - Feb 2011. In addtition to production in Turkey, the gun will be manufactured at a facility in NJ USA. T- 14 HUNTING GUN will be available in Flattops or with carry handles. T- 14 HUNTING GUN is currently manufactured in 36 (410) CALIBER, UNRIFLED AND UNGROOVED SEMIAUTOMATIC WHICH IS SIMILAR TO AR-15 223 REMINGTON. grooving and rifling is a possibility too.
T 14 is designed to use everykind of ammo, birdshots, buckshots or slugs. Mainly the manufacturer recommends slugs because the gun has a powerful gas system that no other shotgun has and also very very accurate up to 300 metres.
www.tactical.desktopmarket.com (http://www.tactical.desktopmarket.com)
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So, you shotgun hunters explain to me why .410 slugs have not been developed into the premier hunting round ???
I would think that you could use the smaller .410 to get closer to true rifle performance then the enormously heavy 12 gauge slugs. It seems to me that all that ridiculous amount of weight in the 12 ga slugs is what really puts the limitations on shotgun hunting as far as range is concerned. I would think, that you could use .410 to get a lighter slug with a greater ballistic coefficient, and have more then enough room for the need gunpowder.
IMHO - When using a low pressure cartridge, (pistol or shotgun) weight has the benefit of momentum which gives better penetration. Using a lighter slug even if you got the velocity up over 1900fps, may get the job done but at what cost? (to the gun and your wallet)
You still have to keep the pressure DOWN for shotguns. They don't have the steel mass or strength of revolvers let alone rifles.
Shotgun slugs have gotten better by using sabots, but the 410 is the redheaded stepchild of the shotgun world.
Too expensive, ammo is harder to find and a 410 won't and can't do what the same load will do out of a 12 gauge. Move up to 12 mag territory and it's no contest.
Have you priced a box of 410 ammo lately?
Side note, why anyone would use a 410 shell in a Taurus Judge instead of an honest to goodness thumper 45 Colt is beyond me unless the recoil is GREATLY reduced and/or you have serious overpenetration worries.
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.410 is a great snake round in a Judge. Times have sure changed, my 28" barreled Mossberg/Wards Western Field bolt action .410, with threaded barrel, was designed as a rabbit/squirrel/dove almost rifle. The choke(s) control the spread, but .410 is the dodo bird round today.
The 20g, is more popular, and cheaper. So........
But I love the thing, keep my stocks up on .410, and it's a family gun so there it will stay. In the Judge, as intended, it is more than adequate for SD ranges, having the 45Colt is a bonus...(although another pricey round)... :-\