The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on October 14, 2009, 10:17:12 AM

Title: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: ericire12 on October 14, 2009, 10:17:12 AM
He said this on his podcast. The 19 second audio is here:
http://talkradionews.com/2009/10/80-percent-of-the-guns-confiscated-in-mexico-are-from-u-s-claims-arizona-democrat/

Quote
Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) says 80 percent of the guns confiscated in Mexico are originally from the U.S. He says Second Amendment “implications” have halted any federal interventions to stop the gun running. (0:19)

(http://grijalva.house.gov/images/websiteheader.jpg)

Email here:
http://grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=49&sectiontree=2,49
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: Hazcat on October 14, 2009, 10:19:57 AM
Raul needs to be repatriated to his ancestral home!
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: JC5123 on October 14, 2009, 12:55:32 PM
He said this on his podcast. The 19 second audio is here:
http://talkradionews.com/2009/10/80-percent-of-the-guns-confiscated-in-mexico-are-from-u-s-claims-arizona-democrat/

(http://grijalva.house.gov/images/websiteheader.jpg)

Email here:
http://grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=49&sectiontree=2,49


I'd like to know where he came up with his facts. But I'll believe them for just a moment, to pose this question: How many of the guns that you "Supposedly" traced to the us, were in fact stolen from armories that the U.S. (this means you congressman) payed for and gave to some South American government, (Columbia comes to mind) and brought up to Mexico?

Ok, the moments over, back to looking at his bogus facts and asking him to back them up!  Oh Wait! I forgot I was dealing with a congress critter. So I'll just shut my pie hole and take everything that comes out of their mouths/asses as gospel.   >:(
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 14, 2009, 01:23:14 PM
 If Mexico's gun problem comes from America, it is FAR more likely to involve some corrupt bastard with ties to both sides of the border than the average gun owner.
Like say, for example, a Mexican American Congressman who wants to divert attention from his campaign contributors.
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: r_w on October 14, 2009, 01:39:08 PM
How many times do you need to repeat a lie for it to become "fact"?

Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 14, 2009, 01:39:31 PM
We all have seen how bogus this claim is. 80% of a small sample provided to ATF provided by the Federales (who do not want the number of guns stolen from their own arsenals made public) could be traced to te US, from those that could be traced. This is like 20% of a tainted sample. But you know what? Lets pretend its real and 80% of the guns in Mexico were bought here. So what? Why should I care? Why should I curtail my freedoms to solve their problems? They want us to enact gun control? How about they start policing their side of the border to keep drugs and illegals out (say requiring a stamped passport to reenter the country)  as a show of good faith? Until then they can kiss my ass. The only concession the good congressman can give them, with my approval, is to end the prohibition on some drugs and make the whole mess go away. What do you know, a problem solved by providing LESS government control, rather than more. What a concept.
FQ13
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: JC5123 on October 14, 2009, 02:20:59 PM
We all have seen how bogus this claim is. 80% of a small sample provided to ATF provided by the Federales (who do not want the number of guns stolen from their own arsenals made public) could be traced to te US, from those that could be traced. This is like 20% of a tainted sample. But you know what? Lets pretend its real and 80% of the guns in Mexico were bought here. So what? Why should I care? Why should I curtail my freedoms to solve their problems? They want us to enact gun control? How about they start policing their side of the border to keep drugs and illegals out (say requiring a stamped passport to reenter the country)  as a show of good faith? Until then they can kiss my ass. The only concession the good congressman can give them, with my approval, is to end the prohibition on some drugs and make the whole mess go away. What do you know, a problem solved by providing LESS government control, rather than more. What a concept.
FQ13

So what you are saying is that if we just legalize cocaine, then the Mexican Mafia will stop trying to overthrow an already corrupt government in a third world country? Sorry I don't buy it. It kinda sounds like the theory that if we just leave the middle east, the terrorists will stop trying to kill us.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for less government, but by legalizing illicit drugs you are asking for way more problems than you are solving. Just look at San Francisco.

 The real solution here is the obvious one. Button up the borders tighter than a frogs ass. If you don't have documents, then your ass gets airmailed back home, and I don't mean on Delta. I'm taking about loading you up in a crate and parachuting you out of the back of a C-130 wherever we THINK you came from.

But that would be bad for the Democrat voting base, which amazes me since it is the Democrat party that is the most racist group in the country.  ::)
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 14, 2009, 02:29:23 PM
So what you are saying is that if we just legalize cocaine, then the Mexican Mafia will stop trying to overthrow an already corrupt government in a third world country? Sorry I don't buy it. It kinda sounds like the theory that if we just leave the middle east, the terrorists will stop trying to kill us.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for less government, but by legalizing illicit drugs you are asking for way more problems than you are solving. Just look at San Francisco.

 The real solution here is the obvious one. Button up the borders tighter than a frogs ass. If you don't have documents, then your ass gets airmailed back home, and I don't mean on Delta. I'm taking about loading you up in a crate and parachuting you out of the back of a C-130 wherever we THINK you came from.

But that would be bad for the Democrat voting base, which amazes me since it is the Democrat party that is the most racist group in the country.  ::)

   If they continue selling drugs they become "business men", like post Prohibition Brewers, with a stake in keeping the Govt stable. If they don't have the huge profits that prohibition generates, they do not have the funding to be a serious threat to the Govt.

How ? What worse problems than a multi billion dollar money hole, that breeds corruption, violent crime, and justifies any concievable erosion of our civil liberties ?

I DO however agree with sealing the border, I've commented on that before.
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: r_w on October 14, 2009, 02:31:12 PM
FQ,
If that were true, the ATF would have disappeared after the 21st amendment.
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 14, 2009, 02:40:03 PM
Quote
The real solution here is the obvious one. Button up the borders tighter than a frogs ass. If you don't have documents, then your ass gets airmailed back home, and I don't mean on Delta. I'm taking about loading you up in a crate and parachuting you out of the back of a C-130 wherever we THINK you came from.


That's pretty good, JC.
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 14, 2009, 02:42:25 PM
So what you are saying is that if we just legalize cocaine, then the Mexican Mafia will stop trying to overthrow an already corrupt government in a third world country? Sorry I don't buy it. It kinda sounds like the theory that if we just leave the middle east, the terrorists will stop trying to kill us.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for less government, but by legalizing illicit drugs you are asking for way more problems than you are solving. Just look at San Francisco.

 The real solution here is the obvious one. Button up the borders tighter than a frogs ass. If you don't have documents, then your ass gets airmailed back home, and I don't mean on Delta. I'm taking about loading you up in a crate and parachuting you out of the back of a C-130 wherever we THINK you came from.

But that would be bad for the Democrat voting base, which amazes me since it is the Democrat party that is the most racist group in the country.  ::)
Three problems with that JC
1 Where do you think the Mexican mafia gets its money? No illegal drugs=no revenue beyond ordinary crime which really doesn't pay that well.
2 While you are right that we should close the border  it won't solve the problem. There is too much desert and too few resources to solve this by playing coyote vs the road runner. Just like the drug war, you will never win by trying to shut down supply whle the demand is still there. The real solution is to start serious fines and jail time for those who hire illegals. Without the jobs they won't come. No demand=no supply.
3 this leads to the third problem. The Dems and GOP want the latino vote and both are in bed with businesses that profit from illegal labor and don't want to go to jail for hiring them.

Until you muster the politcal will to stop the hiring, you will never stop the flow of illegals no matter what the penalty. The drug war and prohibition  proves this.  Stop the drug war and defund (eg disband) the cartels and we and Mexico can save a lot of money and a lot of lives. The only losers are the addicts and their families. Sad, yes, but no one is forced to stick a needle in their arm. You buy the ticket, you take the ride.
FQ13
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 14, 2009, 02:50:03 PM
Three problems with that JC
1 Where do you think the Mexican mafia gets its money? No illegal drugs=no revenue beyond ordinary crime which really doesn't pay that well.
2 While you are right that we should close the border  it won't solve the problem. There is too much desert and too few resources to solve this by playing coyote vs the road runner. Just like the drug war, you will never win by trying to shut down supply whle the demand is still there. The real solution is to start serious fines and jail time for those who hire illegals. Without the jobs they won't come. No demand=no supply.
3 this leads to the third problem. The Dems and GOP want the latino vote and both are in bed with businesses that profit from illegal labor and don't want to go to jail for hiring them.

Until you muster the politcal will to stop the hiring, you will never stop the flow of illegals no matter what the penalty. The drug war and prohibition  proves this.  Stop the drug war and defund (eg disband) the cartels and we and Mexico can save a lot of money and a lot of lives. The only losers are the addicts and their families. Sad, yes, but no one is forced to stick a needle in their arm. You buy the ticket, you take the ride.
FQ13

Allow me, Tom..........."Never underestimate the power of a little bit of rope and a tall tree."

Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 14, 2009, 03:00:24 PM
Allow me, Tom..........."Never underestimate the power of a little bit of rope and a tall tree."


True, but
A That ain't going to happen and
B Should we be hanging a hotel maid or the greedy bastard that lured her with the offer of a job?
FQ13
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: JC5123 on October 14, 2009, 03:03:16 PM
True, but
A That ain't going to happen and
B Should we be hanging a hotel maid or the greedy bastard that lured her with the offer of a job?
FQ13

Why not both. If there are stiff consequences on both sides, then neither will try to "get away with it".
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: Hazcat on October 14, 2009, 03:04:29 PM
True, but
A That ain't going to happen and
B Should we be hanging a hotel maid or the greedy bastard that lured her with the offer of a job?
FQ13

BOTH!

My proposition is

1. If you hired an illegal (either knowingly or by not checking documents) then you lose your business.  We sell (or give) it to someone that will follow the rules.

2. If you are an illegal then you go home!  Got an 'anchor' baby?  TOO BAD!  They can stay in foster care or go home with you!

Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: ericire12 on October 14, 2009, 03:09:14 PM
BOTH!

My proposition is

1. If you hired an illegal (either knowingly or by not checking documents) then you lose your business.  We sell (or give) it to someone that will follow the rules.

2. If you are an illegal then you go home!  Got an 'anchor' baby?  TOO BAD!  They can stay in foster care or go home with you!



Works well, but not as much fun as giving high end sniper rifles to the Minute Men and telling them to fire at will Pepe!
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: graywolf on October 14, 2009, 04:48:12 PM
Perdonme Senor Grijalva, la problema es con el gobierno de Mexico no los Estados Unidos!  See I knew 4 years of High School Spanish would come in handy someday. 
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 14, 2009, 04:51:39 PM
Perdonme Senor Grijalva, la problema es con el gobierno de Mexico no los Estados Unidos!  See I knew 4 years of High School Spanish would come in handy someday. 
If we don't stop this crap you may need more. Hell I can't even talk to my butcher in English. Press two for Spanish? How about pressing 3 for go the f..k home?
FQ13
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 14, 2009, 05:13:31 PM
FQ,
If that were true, the ATF would have disappeared after the 21st amendment.


No, because they have been regulating the taxation of  Booze since Washington was Pres. they just went back to that function.


Three problems with that JC
1 Where do you think the Mexican mafia gets its money? No illegal drugs=no revenue beyond ordinary crime which really doesn't pay that well.
2 While you are right that we should close the border  it won't solve the problem. There is too much desert and too few resources to solve this by playing coyote vs the road runner. Just like the drug war, you will never win by trying to shut down supply whle the demand is still there. The real solution is to start serious fines and jail time for those who hire illegals. Without the jobs they won't come. No demand=no supply.
3 this leads to the third problem. The Dems and GOP want the latino vote and both are in bed with businesses that profit from illegal labor and don't want to go to jail for hiring them.

Until you muster the politcal will to stop the hiring, you will never stop the flow of illegals no matter what the penalty. The drug war and prohibition  proves this.  Stop the drug war and defund (eg disband) the cartels and we and Mexico can save a lot of money and a lot of lives. The only losers are the addicts and their families. Sad, yes, but no one is forced to stick a needle in their arm. You buy the ticket, you take the ride.
FQ13

Then change the law to make them legal .
The Constitution says :
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
They swore to up hold the US Laws they should either enforce the law or change it..
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 14, 2009, 05:17:14 PM
If we don't stop this crap you may need more. Hell I can't even talk to my butcher in English. Press two for Spanish? How about pressing 3 for go the f..k home?
FQ13


 ::)  There's hope for you yet FQ   ::)
Title: Re: Rep. Raul Grijalva blames our 2nd Amend for Mexico's gun problem
Post by: ericire12 on October 14, 2009, 05:28:25 PM
::)  There's hope for you yet FQ   ::)

Its a siren song