Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: rojawe on October 23, 2009, 01:02:04 PM
Title: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: rojawe on October 23, 2009, 01:02:04 PM
Pure BS
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 23, 2009, 01:14:30 PM
Ok boys and girls, I can send e-mails, letters and make calls to my Pres. BHO worshipers from MN, but what else can we do to head this off in forty-four days?
This speaker was in St. Paul, and this is the first I have seen of this. I don't live and die by my news reports, but this is something that should have been spotted in the Star Tribune or any of our local news shows (you know, that 35 minutes at 10 PM where they tell you the important stuff like how many millions a movie grossed or how great favre is).
We have been dumbed down to the point that this crap is going to kill us, and we won't even know it happened.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: Pathfinder on October 23, 2009, 01:28:04 PM
If bho signs it (if? - there will be no stopping him - no chance of it at all, even if 10 million people surrounded the White House they would just helicopter him out and he will sign it) and if the Senate ratifies it (more of an if, but not much) then there is little left to do but secede. That, or kowtow to our third world brethren, and that is something I for one will never do.
Monkton may be wrong about one thing though - remember the so-called Kyoto Accords? They died on the vine although overwhelmingly signed by just about everyone else - except the US and a handful of others. Future Admins can (they won't but they can) refuse to acknowledge any UN carbon tax and operate independently - if we can afford to. Besides, they whacked JFK and got away with it, what chance does any President have in rejecting this?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 23, 2009, 02:21:12 PM
Even if our Maximum Leader signs the agreement it must be ratified by the US Senate by a two-thirds majority. That is the fight.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: Hazcat on October 23, 2009, 02:28:27 PM
Even if our Maximum Leader signs the agreement it must be ratified by the US Senate by a two-thirds majority. That is the fight.
Agreed!
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 23, 2009, 03:07:04 PM
You folks think I'm exaggerating, or an extremist when I say we have no choice but to start killing these bastards. But I ask you, what other answer is there to "f-ck you, I won " ?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: callithump on October 23, 2009, 09:11:58 PM
I think everybody would agree that whacking folks ain't it. One author has said that martial law will be a declaration of war on you and your family and that might be a "go" button but elections are only a year away. In the meantime the person who has access to Maximum Barry's school records, long form birth certificate, passports and financial aid should step forward. Everything he has done will be null and void and we'll get a new election. The bc trial is comng up, well see where it leads. You tube is hell if you have dial-up but I'll take a nap then watch.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: callithump on October 23, 2009, 09:47:54 PM
I'd like to know what Barry gave the ChiComs as collateral for all that money.... and why they are walking away with Iraq's oil. The Dems will certainly run us into the ground with all this. W said he never thought he would run into people in Washington who hated the Country... he sure was right.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 23, 2009, 09:52:54 PM
We've been trying to save the country with votes for 70 some odd years, since FDR started implementing his Socialist programs. Do you expect to get by on hope for 600 years like the Irish ?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: r_w on October 24, 2009, 08:44:56 AM
Even if our Maximum Leader signs the agreement it must be ratified by the US Senate by a two-thirds majority. That is the fight.
If he signs it, it is TREASON.
Punishment for treason is still pretty clear.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 24, 2009, 08:57:07 AM
President
Quote
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Senator
Quote
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
Congressman and Vice President
Quote
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
Everyone in the big buildings in DC took one of these very recently. We need to remind them that supporting and defending does not mean turning over to others!
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 24, 2009, 11:32:37 AM
This treaty issue kind of broke the code for me. Most of our Presidents just leeave office, build their Library, give speeches and work on philanthropic endeavors. Every one in while they pop off and get their name in the news.
Well, perhaps our Maximum Leader wants a new challenge after his term(s) expire. Perhaps he wants to be Maximum Leader of the World. It could be part of the grand design. I'm just sayin'...
Also, Tom, we have access to this board through the efforts of Michael Bane and the Halloway's under the banner of the Outdoor Channel. Please, don’t mess it up with talk of violence and death.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 24, 2009, 12:55:28 PM
This treaty issue kind of broke the code for me. Most of our Presidents just leeave office, build their Library, give speeches and work on philanthropic endeavors. Every one in while they pop off and get their name in the news.
Well, perhaps our Maximum Leader wants a new challenge after his term(s) expire. Perhaps he wants to be Maximum Leader of the World. It could be part of the grand design. I'm just sayin'...
Also, Tom, we have access to this board through the efforts of Michael Bane and the Halloway's under the banner of the Outdoor Channel. Please, don’t mess it up with talk of violence and death.
“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.” Thomas Jefferson quote “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson quote “Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.” Thomas Jefferson quote “If ever there was a holy war, it was that which saved our liberties and gave us independence” Thomas Jefferson quotes “Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains or slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!” Patrick Henry quotes
After a couple minutes reflection I think I should point out to you Watchman, the 1st Amendment protection of free speech, if it protects some one else's right to burn the flag, it also protects MY right to say that those treasonous bastards in Washington should all hang, be stood against a wall and shot, hit on the head like cattle, or any other economically feasible method of execution . If you don't approve, TS. While that is your right I suggest you think about this, the Founders of this great experiment, the freest, most productive and prosperous of nations, Pledged their lives, their treasure and their sacred honor to throw off the shackles of oppression. If you actually think what you posted may be true, yet you chastise ME for advocating the same cleansing action that gave birth to this Nation with out submitting any other option that has not been attempted and failed, then are YOU not part of the problem, rather than part of the solution ?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 24, 2009, 04:35:32 PM
“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.” Thomas Jefferson quote “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson quote “Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.” Thomas Jefferson quote “If ever there was a holy war, it was that which saved our liberties and gave us independence” Thomas Jefferson quotes “Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains or slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!” Patrick Henry quotes
After a couple minutes reflection I think I should point out to you Watchman, the 1st Amendment protection of free speech, if it protects some one else's right to burn the flag, it also protects MY right to say that those treasonous bastards in Washington should all hang, be stood against a wall and shot, hit on the head like cattle, or any other economically feasible method of execution . If you don't approve, TS. While that is your right I suggest you think about this, the Founders of this great experiment, the freest, most productive and prosperous of nations, Pledged their lives, their treasure and their sacred honor to throw off the shackles of oppression. If you actually think what you posted may be true, yet you chastise ME for advocating the same cleansing action that gave birth to this Nation with out submitting any other option that has not been attempted and failed, then are YOU not part of the problem, rather than part of the solution ?
With My previous post on this topic I was trying to point out that this is not your blog. Others pay for us to pontificate. As I said, this board is through the efforts of Michael Bane and the Halloway's under the banner of the Outdoor Channel.” As such we and you are guests who get to meet here, share ideas and opinions on a vast array of topics.
Tom, I don't care what you say or where you say it. You can scream FIRE in a theatre if you want. I don't care. On your blog you can do whatever you wish to your heart's desire. It's your space, you pay for it. You know I even agree with most of what you say but this talk of death and killing is getting out of hand.
People used to say that you were trying to funny or using sarcasm to make a point in past comments about armed revolution, killing politicians. But apparently, according to yourself, you are no longer joking when you are saying, “You folks think I'm exaggerating, or an extremist when I say we have no choice but to start killing these bastards. But I ask you, what other answer is there to "f-ck you, I won " ?”
To me you do sound like an extremist. It sounds like you have some bloodlust needing to satisfied and want to bypass the electoral process and start shooting.
We, as a people, have not lost our ability to influence our elected officials. Our form of self government has not been exhausted. Tom, you may see the end but we are not there yet! We can fight this as a people at the ballot box. We may get to the point of armed revolution, God help us if we do, but we ain’t even close yet.
I don’t mean that as a joke. I think you might need to get some help for depression – seriously man!
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: twyacht on October 24, 2009, 06:26:03 PM
Watchman, Tom can fight his own battles, but being a DRTV Ranger which is an "appointed" title, should kinda enlighten you.
By all account every single one of us are probably already on a "watch" list, and according to BHO, already "extremists".
Hang on I have to get the rifle and Bible off my lap..
You never talked to Marshal'ette before have you?
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." President Thomas Jefferson
Reference "the pressure cooker" and search previous DRTV topics regarding it.
There is a line in the sand, and BHO is getting closer all the time.
Nov. 2010 will give us what? New scumbags who throw the most money at their election? Or the blind sheeple that keep re-electing the Pelosi's of the country?
Watchman, Tom can fight his own battles, but being a DRTV Ranger which is an "appointedEARNED" title, should kinda enlighten you.
By all account every single one of us are probably already on a "watch" list, and according to BHO, already "extremists".
Hang on I have to get the rifle and Bible off my lap..
You never talked to Marshal'ette before have you?
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." President Thomas Jefferson
Reference "the pressure cooker" and search previous DRTV topics regarding it.
There is a line in the sand, and BHO is getting closer all the time.
Nov. 2010 will give us what? New scumbags who throw the most money at their election? Or the blind sheeple that keep re-electing the Pelosi's of the country?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: twyacht on October 24, 2009, 07:16:26 PM
Thanks Pathfinder, I stand corrected. My fingers got away from me.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 24, 2009, 08:42:03 PM
Thank you TW and Path. Watchman, First off in your PC rush to judgment you conveniently ignore half my post. Do you have a BETTER IDEA ? Utilizing the Ballot box since the time of FDR has been an abject failure because the scumbags who get elected extend the vote to wino's the mentally handicapped and illegal aliens (Why else would they prohibit checking ID and Citizenship ) They also tell you sheep anything you want to hear if they think it will get a vote
Americans have been trying to utilize the soap box to voice their opposition to these socialist wacko's since before last April 15th and what has THAT accomplished, it has gotten Citizens called terrorists, extremists, unpatriotic, Nazi's. and their demands for Congress and the president to limit their spending spree and obey the Constitution are ridiculed, laughed at, and ignored
NOTE This douche bag allegedly represents my district
That only leaves one other choice " We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."
You think I'm depressed ? Damned right I am , just like Cassandra got depressed when the Trojans ignored her warnings about Greeks bearing gifts. You hide your age in your profile so I will assume you are fairly young, and tell you that I remember what America was like, and this current nanny state where a cities Mayor can regulate what FOODS are eaten there sure as HELL is not America.
I think you are either a federal employee trying to justify his paycheck, (which, being unemployed myself, I can understand, if not excuse ) or you are a blind fool who lacks enough historical awareness to realize that the "usurpation's and abuses" that led to rebellion against King George have been so far exceeded by by our runaway Congress as to call into question the manhood of our citizens. I will follow the quote from the Declaration with a modern example until I have gotten tired of typing ; He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
Obama ignoring Gen McChrystal should cover this one. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. Federal resistance to the current spate of "States rights bills" He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their substance. Czars, or Tsars if you prefer He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. We don't even know how many gunbearing federal enforcement agencies there are, even the dept. of Agriculture has a SWAT team. But the so called "war on Drugs fits this as it has been a drain on our Constitutional rights since it was passed. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: UN >:( For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: This also goes back to the war on some drugs and the payoffs received through unjust forfeiture laws For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: Should need no comment My supper is getting cold so I will close this with one more and a comment He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
The tax rate that drove the Colonists to insurrection was 4% What are YOU paying ?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 24, 2009, 09:16:04 PM
Sitting around and trying to warm up this evening (150 miles on bike today - 120 on mine and 30 test driving a brand new, less than 500 miles, Ultra Classic with last 25 miles in the sleet), and I'm watching The Patriot. Makes me think of another favorite, Braveheart. Appropriate for this discussion is the question, the men depicted in these movies drew a line in the sand and took a stand, where is our line, and when do we stand at it?
Have we drawn the line clearly, and are we making it clear to our elected officials where we stand and where we expect them to start and stop?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 24, 2009, 09:39:10 PM
The problem, as some one else recently posted , is LEADERSHIP . More precisely that we have none. The Colonists had prominent RESPECTED men like Adams, Jefferson and Washington to rally behind. In fact, recovering stolen weapons was only part of the British mission o 4 Apr. 1775, the other objective were the arrests of Adams and Hancock. Would modern Patriots rally to the defense of Alan Keyes, or Glen Beck ? Would we have risen in arms at the arrest of McCain (Yeah I know, but he was the one who ran against BO ). Bill O'Reilly (Who is a dem and actually somewhat of a liberal ) Rush , Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter,these people are actually doing exactly the same as Franklin, Hamilton, Paine, etc, they are calling BS on abuses of the people by the Govt.. The difference that is causing us problems is that they can no longer spread their message by posting it on the side of a building as the old time news sheets (called "Broadsides") were. They have to refrain from calling for decisive action in order to retain their "bully pulpit". Will Sarah Palin be America's Joan of Arc ? I don't know, but she has taken the first 2 steps of gaining the ear and respect of THINKING Patriots, ( FU FQ ) and shifting her focus from the corruption of "Old Boy" political machines to the unrestricted internet. Ron Paul ? Sure, he's been defeated before, so wasn't Reagan. Another question though, is either of them radical and ruthless enough to actually DO the job if they get the office ? Regardless, with out a leader we remain disgruntled individuals, with a leader to rally behind, even one who does not completely agree with your ideas, we become a movement. But with or with out Leadership, eventual victory WILL be ours if we remember that the Irish fought for their freedom for 800 years. Even as Leaderless individuals we can NEVER be defeated. We can be killed, but the ideals of Liberty can not be extinguished. Each of us who falls is an inspiration to others.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 24, 2009, 10:22:10 PM
Watchman, Tom can fight his own battles, but being a DRTV Ranger which is an "appointed" title, should kinda enlighten you.
By all account every single one of us are probably already on a "watch" list, and according to BHO, already "extremists".
Hang on I have to get the rifle and Bible off my lap..
You never talked to Marshal'ette before have you?
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." President Thomas Jefferson
Reference "the pressure cooker" and search previous DRTV topics regarding it.
There is a line in the sand, and BHO is getting closer all the time.
Nov. 2010 will give us what? New scumbags who throw the most money at their election? Or the blind sheeple that keep re-electing the Pelosi's of the country?
I could care less if he or anyone is a DRTV Ranger or a Rescue Ranger or a Park Ranger.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on October 24, 2009, 10:25:04 PM
Here's a link to the Copenhagen site of the conference: http://en.cop15.dk/frontpage
I searched for the word 'treaty' and found several links. It appears the top climate change official for the UN states there will not be a treaty, this time. However, he does want them to establish a framework for a more cohesive agreement that will be established at a later date.
It's important we pay attention to not only what is said, but what is not said. And I will add we should be more savvy about the way certain discussions are framed on this issue too.
-FA
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 24, 2009, 10:49:45 PM
Thank you TW and Path. Watchman, First off in your PC rush to judgment you conveniently ignore half my post. Do you have a BETTER IDEA ? Utilizing the Ballot box since the time of FDR has been an abject failure because the scumbags who get elected extend the vote to wino's the mentally handicapped and illegal aliens (Why else would they prohibit checking ID and Citizenship ) They also tell you sheep anything you want to hear if they think it will get a vote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0
Americans have been trying to utilize the soap box to voice their opposition to these socialist wacko's since before last April 15th and what has THAT accomplished, it has gotten Citizens called terrorists, extremists, unpatriotic, Nazi's. and their demands for Congress and the president to limit their spending spree and obey the Constitution are ridiculed, laughed at, and ignored
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkssjEWz_iI NOTE This douche bag allegedly represents my district
That only leaves one other choice " We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."
You think I'm depressed ? Damned right I am , just like Cassandra got depressed when the Trojans ignored her warnings about Greeks bearing gifts. You hide your age in your profile so I will assume you are fairly young, and tell you that I remember what America was like, and this current nanny state where a cities Mayor can regulate what FOODS are eaten there sure as HELL is not America.
I think you are either a federal employee trying to justify his paycheck, (which, being unemployed myself, I can understand, if not excuse ) or you are a blind fool who lacks enough historical awareness to realize that the "usurpation's and abuses" that led to rebellion against King George have been so far exceeded by by our runaway Congress as to call into question the manhood of our citizens. I will follow the quote from the Declaration with a modern example until I have gotten tired of typing ; He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
Obama ignoring Gen McChrystal should cover this one. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. Federal resistance to the current spate of "States rights bills" He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their substance. Czars, or Tsars if you prefer He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. We don't even know how many gunbearing federal enforcement agencies there are, even the dept. of Agriculture has a SWAT team. But the so called "war on Drugs fits this as it has been a drain on our Constitutional rights since it was passed. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: UN >:( For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: This also goes back to the war on some drugs and the payoffs received through unjust forfeiture laws For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: Should need no comment My supper is getting cold so I will close this with one more and a comment He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
The tax rate that drove the Colonists to insurrection was 4% What are YOU paying ?
Tom, above you talk about BHO getting closer to a “line in the sand” that, I assume, if crossed will force some one into action. I would presume that, given your previous posts, would mean some sort of violent response.
Your post makes it appear that you have already determined the 2010 elections won’t appreciably change what is going on regardless of who wins. It looks to me that you probably have all the justification you need. You live in a State that gives you the right to revolt. So why are you waiting? What is the line in sand for you?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: twyacht on October 24, 2009, 11:08:54 PM
You live in a State that gives you the right to revolt. So why are you waiting? What is the line in sand for you? I could care less if he or anyone is a DRTV Ranger or a Rescue Ranger or a Park Ranger.
The line in the sand is the violation, usurpation, and rape of the principles of which this country was founded. The Amendments in the Constitution are NOT an "evolving" document. Politicians have forgotten this and who they represent. The old addage of voting for the "lesser of two evils" is growing weary on a republic that is finally waking the "f" up.
A "New World Order" was wrong when first initiated, and it is still wrong. Our Republic left a "World Order", in the 1700's and fought to the death to defend a premise of freedom from tyranny and frankly, Imperial Bullshit.
We are facing that Imperial BS now, and the Conservatives have yet to Man The "F" Up, sound off like they got a pair, and do something about it. ie Olympia Snow, John McCain, Lindsey Graham,....etc,...play the game, and contribute to their own agenda, NOT OURS.
Watchman, I'm sorry things got off to a rough patch in regards to this thread. You seem like a good guy and have your intentions in all the right places.
All the polls and people you probably know, have Americans pissed off at the gov't. Both Red & Blue voters have had it with their "representatives" in D.C.
Some members here are more explicit and vocal (in type anyway), in their personal opinion. It is from a defensive posture. Let the elections in 2010 work, let the "voters" decide the next "salesman". Hopefully, this country gets back on track, right now it is not.
I do not advocate proactive violence against my own country, but the key phrase is how many times do we keep grabbing our ankles and saying " Thank you Sir, may I have another?"
I hope the 2010 elections send a message, but history has ebb and flow of the same sham...
Remember, it's nothing personal here, try not to take it as such.
Sincerely,
tw "Remember that Jefferson told us that the Second Amendment would not be needed until they tried to abolish it. There are people who have that in mind right now. The personal ownership and usage of firearms is not a common aspect of today's culture worldwide. It is up to Americans - those who know what it means to be an American - to uphold the light of liberty in the face of those both here and elsewhere who would extinguish it. We see the hysterics who feel that the abolition of firearms would bring about major changes in the human psyche, and that crime would disappear. We cannot reason with these people because they are impervious to reason, but we can expose them to ridicule and frustrate their political clout. That is a job not just for the National Rifle Association, but for everyone. If you want to make a resolution for the coming century, resolve to do something in defense of liberty every day, and by liberty, of course, we mean true liberty - the right to keep and bear arms. Without that liberty all other liberties are meaningless." Col. Jeff Cooper
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: bryand71 on October 24, 2009, 11:13:57 PM
The problem, as some one else recently posted , is LEADERSHIP . More precisely that we have none. The Colonists had prominent RESPECTED men like Adams, Jefferson and Washington to rally behind. In fact, recovering stolen weapons was only part of the British mission o 4 Apr. 1775, the other objective were the arrests of Adams and Hancock. Would modern Patriots rally to the defense of Alan Keyes, or Glen Beck ? Would we have risen in arms at the arrest of McCain (Yeah I know, but he was the one who ran against BO ). Bill O'Reilly (Who is a dem and actually somewhat of a liberal ) Rush , Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter,these people are actually doing exactly the same as Franklin, Hamilton, Paine, etc, they are calling BS on abuses of the people by the Govt.. The difference that is causing us problems is that they can no longer spread their message by posting it on the side of a building as the old time news sheets (called "Broadsides") were. They have to refrain from calling for decisive action in order to retain their "bully pulpit". Will Sarah Palin be America's Joan of Arc ? I don't know, but she has taken the first 2 steps of gaining the ear and respect of THINKING Patriots, ( FU FQ ) and shifting her focus from the corruption of "Old Boy" political machines to the unrestricted internet. Ron Paul ? Sure, he's been defeated before, so wasn't Reagan. Another question though, is either of them radical and ruthless enough to actually DO the job if they get the office ? Regardless, with out a leader we remain disgruntled individuals, with a leader to rally behind, even one who does not completely agree with your ideas, we become a movement. But with or with out Leadership, eventual victory WILL be ours if we remember that the Irish fought for their freedom for 800 years. Even as Leaderless individuals we can NEVER be defeated. We can be killed, but the ideals of Liberty can not be extinguished. Each of us who falls is an inspiration to others.
AMEN!
I often wonder what the tipping point will be. I only hope it will rally those of us willing to do what it takes to return our great country to what it should be.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 24, 2009, 11:57:02 PM
Individual action is counter productive, for 2 examples look at Timothy McVeigh or the Serb who assassinated Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand, both had valid arguments supporting their actions, in fact, neither was even an individual but both groups were to small to do more than carry out one single action, That is merely a protest, not a revolution. Both were vilified in the press amid much hype that buried their grievances under a mountain of disinformation, Govt. propaganda, and vaguely related side issues. All successful Revolutions require coordinated actions, for example the seizure of armories, communication centers and transportation centers, in large countries such as the US, France, Russia, or Germany this requires a nation wide organization or coalition of organizations such as the "Sons of Liberty and the Committees of Correspondence in colonial America, the Jacobite movement in France, Russia had a Red coalition made up of several groups that included a small ruthless well conceived group called Bolsheviks but there were other groups that did not plan so far ahead like the Mensheviks. Then of course the Nazi's in Germany failed miserably when they attempted the 1923 Putsch,as a regional Party, they did not rise to power until they had formed a nation wide organization. While that was not, strictly speaking, a revolution they DID utilize many of the same tactics such as the burning of the Riechstag as tactics in consolidating their power. Another feature shared by all of the examples was the elimination of the opposition after their victory. America's tories were induced to leave, fleeing to Canada, England, and the Bahamas, France had the "reign of terror" Germany started it's Concentration Camps, not for Jews but for political opponents. Russia's purges started with the October Revolution and continued till after the death of Stalin. In your post you state "Your post makes it appear that you have already determined the 2010 elections won’t appreciably change what is going on regardless of who wins." That is correct, not even the election of Ronald Reagan was enough to stop the slide toward socialist dictatorship that started under FDR (which is kind of funny, My Great Grandfather used to curse "that damned Rus velt" ) Reagan managed to slow the slide, but at the expense of being constantly reviled by the communist media and Democrat left, but he ONLY slowed it. You also state in your post It looks to me that you probably have all the justification you need. You live in a State that gives you the right to revolt. So why are you waiting? That also is correct, my personal line in the sand was crossed during the Clinton administration when VP Al Gore, acting in his capacity as Senate President cast the tie breaking vote authorizing already overburdened social security benefits for illegal aliens. and Congress passed the AWB. That is the time that Patriotic Americans should have risen and vented their wrath on the self righteous elitists who hide their socialist power grabbing behind the BS phrase "it's for the children", it isn't, it's for power. Power that is rightfully OURS, not congress, or the President's , but the sole property of "We the people". You ask why I am waiting ? Two different aspects of the same reason. I am enough of a student of history to know what is needed for a successful revolution, and I am honest enough with myself to know that I lack the eloquence, organizational ability or financial resources to get the job done. I have no national level exposure, and probably would not be happy with it if I did, some of those MSM interviewers would probably get my back hand judging by the way they treated Palin ;D While I would be happy, no, Proud, to follow a reputable, leader who actually had some kind of a chance. And would with equal pride lay down my life for the cause of American Liberty in combat. I am more qualified for thinking about plans and policies than for leadership. You will note here that Ben Franklin was as avid a Patriot as any one but he fought HIS revolutionary battles in the drawing rooms of Europe, Jefferson is another who fought for freedom with his brain rather than leading charges against the British.
Actually I'm rather enjoying this thread, it is making me articulate things that have been circling in my mind as a general sense of disgust and disillusionment. ;D I will also point out that most of what I post are NOT originating with me but are an amalgam of many other writers and historions ranging from Robert Heinlein and Alexander Solzhenitsyn, to Barbara Tuchmann and John Keegan.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 25, 2009, 12:12:23 AM
Bryand, based on the past, it will be about 5-10 % outside the military. The military will probably as in 1860 be split down the middle. The best result there would be for the Navy and Air Force to remain above the fray to safe guard the nuke forces and guarantee our ability to fight it out uninterrupted by foreign intervention.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: MAUSERMAN on October 25, 2009, 01:29:49 AM
Leadership? We have that in this country?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 25, 2009, 10:50:34 AM
Watchman, While this video deals with INTERnational relations it is worth thinking about in this context
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 25, 2009, 05:00:48 PM
Tom, I agree with you on almost every issue. I love our nation and, like you, will fight for liberty and freedom. I share your frustration with the current political situation. Where you and I diverge is on your repeated advocacy of violent revolt.
You may recall that this not the first time I have taken issue with your advocacy of violence. It's not that I think violence would never be warranted, rather I do not agree that all lesser avenues of substantive change have been exhausted. Armed insurrection is extremely serious. As a student of history you know the personal price many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence However, the price was not just paid by the men who signed the Declaration. Their friends and families paid a steep price, too.
Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds or hardships during the war. Five were captured and imprisoned, in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire families. One lost his 13 children. Two wives were brutally treated. All were at one time or another the victims of manhunts and driven from their homes. Twelve signers had their homes completely burned. Seventeen lost everything they owned.
When the Declaration of Independence was adopted there were no trumpets blown. No one stood on their chairs and cheered. No one relished the fact that the killing and suffering of many people was about to begin. All accounts indicate that it was very understated yet all the signers knew what it meant.
In my view, continually posting that you are about ready to begin "killing these bastards" cheapens the seriousness of the issue and the price that would be paid by many people.
I really don't care if you agree with me or not. Quite often people can have common ground on many issues yet not agree on all. People are allowed to be different. We can agree to disagree. You can continue to advocate violence and I will continue to needle you about it.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: Pathfinder on October 25, 2009, 06:42:35 PM
WatchMan, I think the real issue ihere is time. Yes, maybe if God favors us, the next election or 2 will remove a lot of the smarmy, self-serving assholes in Congress with which we are now stuck. For the sake of argument, let's say bho, Biden, all of the czars, Pelosi and Reid are all ejected from office. The Pubbies - with real conservatives in leadership, take over. What then?
The press will destroy every effort the new regime takes to undo bho's damage - assuming for the moment it can be undone. Once UN treaties are signed and approved by the Senate, it is my understanding we must go to the other treaty signers and ask their f..king permission (!!!!!) to withdraw from the treaty.
The entrenched bureaucracy within the Federal gummint will also work to destroy the new regime. See point above.
Assuming the first 2 items are not true, or can be overcome, what then? Is it even possible to undo what bho has already done, let alone what he will get done - with the willing complicity of the kongress - over the next 3+ years. How much damage has already been done? Maybe Soros' plan all along was to destroy the US economy and stature in the world in one term - after that, it really doesn't matter who commands the sinking ship.
Lastly, if my hunch is correct and JFK was whacked for fighting back against the trend back in the early 60's, then NO president - conservative or not - will seriously work to undo what has been done.
All of this assumes a lot happening in the next 3 years, assumptions that are unlikely to hold true. Again, how much damage will be done in those 3 years?
So maybe now you understand why the Colonists could not wait beyond 1775, and why maybe the American people - or at least the 3% who really five a f..k - can't wait much longer.
Put another solution on the table, help us win the soft war so that we can avoid - God willing - a hard war.
Where is your line drawn?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 25, 2009, 06:52:06 PM
From Watchman USA "We can agree to disagree. You can continue to advocate violence and I will continue to needle you about it."
Works for me ;D Jefferson suggested that we have a revolution every 20 years or so to keep the politicians honest. I will again ask if you don't agree with me than what do YOU suggest besides the failed voting process ? Is there ANY tipping point that will make you say enough is enough ?
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 25, 2009, 10:48:55 PM
From Watchman USA "We can agree to disagree. You can continue to advocate violence and I will continue to needle you about it."
Works for me ;D Jefferson suggested that we have a revolution every 20 years or so to keep the politicians honest. I will again ask if you don't agree with me than what do YOU suggest besides the failed voting process ? Is there ANY tipping point that will make you say enough is enough ?
No, Tom, I have not had the time this weekend to give you an answer. You may have noticed that my posts have been fairly brief. My daughter had a birthday and we had the family over for dinner yesterday. Today, I sang in a choir concert which took much of the day. In between times I resized some .40 S&W brass with my new G-Rx die and cleaned out the lint from the dryer vent. I lead a very exciting life! :) Perhaps in a couple of days I can craft a response. Like you have been (or are), I'm unemployed right now and my first priority is networking and scaring up consulting work to fill my financial gap.
My first reaction was that I don't agree with your premise that elections are domed to failure. Second, yes there will be a point at which enough will be enough for me. I just have not defined it. But, like you, I will be a participant and not the leader.
I could tell you all kinds of stuff but talk is cheap. It is easier to talk-the-talk than it is to walk-the-talk. Very few of us know or have any experience discovering what we are willing to do until faced with the real decision.
When you make a move like you advocated there is no turning back.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 26, 2009, 11:12:54 AM
Well, You wish that young lady a Happy Birthday from us here at the Forum. As for singing, they would pay ME a lot more to stop than to start ;D Since one of our members posted photos of a dryer jammed up by a snake, it seems that cleaning dryer vents can be VERY exciting. In your post you wrote " there will be a point at which enough will be enough for me. I just have not defined it. " I would suggest that this is fairly common and discussions like we are having gives other food for thought in defining their own limits and standards. I will freely admit that some of the things I have said here were just vague ideas until our discussion forced me to form them into coherent words. I'll be looking forward to your further posts. Good luck with the job search.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 27, 2009, 10:37:35 PM
I will again ask if you don't agree with me than what do YOU suggest besides the failed voting process ?
Is there ANY tipping point that will make you say enough is enough ?
Tom, you asked me to answer the above two questions and I’ll attempt to do so. However, there is a third question to be asked and I think it is:
What are you willing to do about it?
This question is probably the most important one because, unless one is committed to action, the answers to the other two questions don’t really matter. However, it is the most difficult question to answer if one is honest.
There is the old saying built around a breakfast of eggs and bacon. “The chicken was involved but the pig was committed.”
As mentioned before, wuth a lot of bravado and testosterone flowing and it is very easy to say one is committed to the cause with one’s life to the death. This is what our military does when taking the oath “to protect and defend the Constitution.” Typically a solder goes away to a war and goes into harms way. A solder’s family is usually safe from the daily impact of a conflict.
However, if talking about a true revolt as a private citizen, the action very likely will impact the entire family. All loved ones become part of the potential sacrifice as evidenced by the experience of the signers of the Declaration of Impendence. I’m sure that the Founders took their action after considering the consequences both to their loved ones and them.
So, what would I do?
Again, I don’t accept the premise that the voting process has failed. I believe that the Founders purposely build a form of self-government that is quite messy, disorganized, slow, filled with passion and a host of other none complimentary adjectives. This includes all three branches of the federal government.
It is also a fact that political power ebbs and flows between liberal and conservative over the course of our history. No matter how I feel about our extremely liberal government in power right now they were all elected. No matter what one thinks about our Maximum Leader’s citizenship status he is only a piece of the problem.
Since Reagan, even though we elected some politicians having a “R” after their name most have been RINO’s and I include the Bush 41 and 43. This also includes the 1884 republican take over of Congress. Too many were RINO’s.
I believe the root problem is too many of us are not involved in grass roots politics. We let others attend the meetings and abdicate our responsibility to find, recruit and support candidates who reflect our values.
I want to take back the election process. I want us to commit to the difficult work and not let the RINO’s control the process.
The easy way out is to grouse and complain and pontificate what a bunch of schlubs we allow to get elected. Too many people go this route rather than getting involved and actually trying to influence the outcome at the source.
The political wonks of both parties don’t want nor encourage this type of involvement. They want to control the type of politicians who get elected. That way the party is the in control of the politician and not the People.
In the short term we have to elect politicians who will oppose our Maximum Leader’s agenda. I don’t care what initial they have behind their name. We must get politically active and elect people who will lead a meaningful resistance in Congress.
Another action I want is for some entity to challenge the constitutionality of many of the actions the Congress and actions of our Maximum Leader. I don’t have the cash or the legal skill to even assist in this type of action. I don’t like suggesting things that I can’t reasonably impact on my own at least in some small part.
What is my tipping point?
I’m not even close to being done contemplating this one yet because I haven’t determined what I willing do about it. I know that the less the sacrifice of my family and the lower the consequence the lower the threshold for a tipping point will be.
I can be righteously indignant if all I want to do is talk a good game but have no intension of really doing anything.
I would suggest that everyone on the forum consider all three questions.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 27, 2009, 11:14:21 PM
What is my tipping point and what would I be WILLING to do I have answered in previous posts. What AM I doing now ? In the absence of a reputable leader I continue to work within the system, (Jeanne Shaheen won't reply to my letters and Carol Shea-Porter hates to see my name ;D ) I write letters to the editor, and to the White House reminding BO that his conduct, duties, and powers are supposed to be limited by the Constitution. I also vote in all elections, and speak out any time I hear any one spouting socialist BS. However, as I have stated before I have no faith in the system. I may not have explained my reasons for that previously, I will do so now. The problem is only partly elected officials, those from radically liberal constituencies can get away with a lot, but the rest have to tone it down to avoid alienating the voters, the REAL menace is those not elected, Staffers, aides,and career bureaucrats who were hired, regardless of the laws that are passed these are the people who write the policies of Agencies and they CAN'T be voted out, sued, or even identified in most cases because they lurk within committees. Think of the anti gunners at the CDC. Then we have the ones outside of Govt. The leadership of groups like the ACLU, NEA, ABA and AMA. And then of course there is the blatantly one sided media passing on fluff stories, sensationalizing BS, praising the social elitists to the stars and if they mention OUR views at all it is only to belittle them or demonize them with prejudicial comments, half truths, and outright lies. We the People have absolutely no influence on these people at all, but they basically run our Govt. Labor unions finance campaigns, the professional associations advise on policy issues while the media's slanted polls influence the votes of the Elected officials. Socialist nanny state elitists are a cancer on the body politic that has been ignored to long to be dealt with with in the system and now require a more radical approach. Perhaps the system could have protected us with early detection but the nation, while many may have complained, allowed FDR to start the infection, and then stood by doing nothing as the symptoms spread. Now we have reached the point where we require radical surgery or we will die, and might die even with radical action.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: Pathfinder on October 28, 2009, 05:34:16 AM
Other than a reference to the NEA, Tom, you omitted the crass indoctrination of our children in the "public" schools to a statist mindset.
Otherwise, an excellent summation of why we are so freaked at actually seeing the line in the sand approach us. We shouldn't even see the line, it should be far off in the distance - and yet here it is racing toward us.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 28, 2009, 09:55:20 AM
Tom, all good points and I'm pretty much in agreement with the assessment. I will add that the groups you mentioned, I think we would agree that their leadership is extremely liberal, are embolden right now because of Maximum Leader and the left controlling congress. The have the "bully pulpit" and are using it.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 28, 2009, 10:48:37 AM
Watchman, Now that you are aware of my reasoning, do I sound less in need of getting my head shrunk ? ;D Path, I didn't get into the education/indoctrination system because that is all based on policies pushed by the UN and adopted by those unaccountable leaders of the NEA and the National teachers union. As for the UN, we should with draw our membership and funding, America did not, nor was it intended to grow great through cooperation with the rest of the world. in fact, our greatness was achieved IN SPITE of the rest of the worlds opposition.
Watchman, as in the debate on open carry as a political statement, we are on the same side, we are simply debating methods.
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 28, 2009, 11:06:20 AM
The United Nations was created following WWII with the intent of avoiding war ... Yea ... that has been successful.
Just like any government it has become a monster out of control.
I have been looking around and have a hard time getting hard numbers, but the most common figure is $1.2 billion annually from the United States to the U.N. I also have read for years how the U.N. determins, often at the urging of us or western nations, that military might must be used. The United States tends to be the main force, highest numbers and costs, and is seldom reimbursed by other nations. In fact, I recall a few years ago that a "true U.N. mission" was not paid for by the U.N., and there was debate of us withholding our dues to gain on the U.N. debt ... however, we didn't follow through.
I am going to add to my vocabulary a phrase I first learned in the 60's, "Get us out of the U.N.!" All I see at this time from the U.N. is that it gives many small nations the right to control the United States with our blessings. It gives nations the ability to do what England could not do in 1776 ... Negate our Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
A paraphrase from a businessman I know well that had a client that was jacking him around and telling him how to do business - He told his representative to "Go back in the meeting room, say nothing, gather all his papers and briefcase, and leave ... and if you want to give them the finger on the wayout, that is fine with me." We need to tell the United Nations that we are done!
Title: Re: 4 minutes to see where were headed by the stroke of the pen
Post by: WatchManUSA on October 28, 2009, 11:18:14 AM
Watchman, Now that you are aware of my reasoning, do I sound less in need of getting my head shrunk ? ;D
Watchman, as in the debate on open carry as a political statement, we are on the same side, we are simply debating methods.
I had little disagreement with you on the issues. I questioned the action plan. As for your mental health, I can't make a medical assessment - only suggestions. I'm not a Doctor and I didn't stay at Holiday Inn Express last night, either. ;)