The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: LaMott Cowan on November 24, 2007, 09:36:13 PM
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I need help deciding what cal. rifle to get for large game hunting ( Deer, elk, moose, black bear.) All of my hunting friends use .270's or .308'S what about a 7mm or 300 how do they compare for knock down, distance & accuracy. what do ya'll reccommend?
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Any of those would be a good choice.
other good ones to look at are the 7-08 , 30 -06 any of the 30 short action or ultras mags.
308 30-06 and 270 are going to be the most common and cheapest too sho0t( factory ammo ) while a 270 would work for everything on your list, I think a little more knock down power would be nice for things like elk and moose.( as a 1500lbs moose charging you is a very bad thing.)
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Welcome, LaMott
I see this is your 1st post.
Tab is giving good advice, but I'm as usual going to ask more questions to qualify my answer.
If your able to hunt all these species in your home state, you must be north, very north perhaps. If I needed a rifle for all of the above, I would probably go at least 7mm magnum, and maybe up to .338 winchester magnum. Magnum cartridges are expensive compared to the more common, 30-06, .308, .270, and these lower powered cartridges have done handsomely for a very long time.
If I was chosing from these, the 30-06 would be the first choice due to the wide variety of bullet types and weight available. But if you get into premium ammunition, the cost will be very close to the magnum calibers. Knock down is combination of bullet construction, velocity, and shot placement versus animal tenacity. Faster and heavier is generally better. Accuracy has more to do with the rifle/shooter potential than the cartridge potential. Give me a 30-06 in the heart over a .460 Weatherby in the ass, everytime. Trajectory, with good medium range to the biggest, baddest cartridges, ( the .50bmg, and all the chey tacs excluded)
the worst to the best are only truly 100 yards apart for the point blank 0, where the bullet will rise and fall within an 8" circle without adjusting your sight. If you are willing to learn your rifle/cartridge and scope, learn some distance judging, and wind doping, thats when you really start to see and understand marksmanship. For most hunting with a good medium to heavy cartridge, and a proper zero, you'll be good to 300 yards with no holdover.
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Welcome, LaMott
I see this is your 1st post.
Tab is giving good advice, but I'm as usual going to ask more questions to qualify my answer.
If your able to hunt all these species in your home state, you must be north, very north perhaps. If I needed a rifle for all of the above, I would probably go at least 7mm magnum, and maybe up to .338 winchester magnum. Magnum cartridges are expensive compared to the more common, 30-06, .308, .270, and these lower powered cartridges have done handsomely for a very long time.
If I was chosing from these, the 30-06 would be the first choice due to the wide variety of bullet types and weight available. But if you get into premium ammunition, the cost will be very close to the magnum calibers. Knock down is combination of bullet construction, velocity, and shot placement versus animal tenacity. Faster and heavier is generally better. Accuracy has more to do with the rifle/shooter potential than the cartridge potential. Give me a 30-06 in the heart over a .460 Weatherby in the ass, everytime. Trajectory, with good medium range to the biggest, baddest cartridges, ( the .50bmg, and all the chey tacs excluded)
the worst to the best are only truly 100 yards apart for the point blank 0, where the bullet will rise and fall within an 8" circle without adjusting your sight. If you are willing to learn your rifle/cartridge and scope, learn some distance judging, and wind doping, thats when you really start to see and understand marksmanship. For most hunting with a good medium to heavy cartridge, and a proper zero, you'll be good to 300 yards with no holdover.
Some answers to your questions are. I live in North Carolina, But I have family land in upstate NY. & Missouri. so I love to hunt different locations. I was in the Marine Corps for 6yrs & qualified expert (Highest qual) for 5 of 6 yrs. I shoot well..9mm,40mm,45mm, .223, 7.62& 50mm. I just have a hard time with the knowledge (distance, knockdown, etc.)of the hunting rifles. I currently have a TC. Encore prohunter 50 cal. muzzle loader, but I really need to buy a all around cal. rifle. Oh Did i mention that I haven't a ton of money..
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well I would look at savage then. For the money you can't beat them, they shoot well under a inch at 100 yds with factory ammo. They are ugly as sin, but they will drive tacts. If your really on a budget the remington 770( or the 710 the gun it replaced)comes with a bore sighted 3-9X40 scoped(bushnell I beleave) already mounted for around 500. its not pretty or highly refined, but they work and work well. If I was looking to get into hunting on the cheap, its what I would buy.
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If you need to go even less expensive look at Stevens models on the Savage site. Basically they are older model Savage at a real bargain. Good shooters but I will say the triggers are stiff and a bit gritty.
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They are all good. .270/30.06/.308/.300/7mm all great. I prefer the 7mm Remington Magnum. It shoots a little flater and hits a little harder than the 30.06. .308 is a classic and either that or the 30.06 would be my next choice for big game. That is just me though. I know several guys that use 7mm Mag's and they have easily brought down elk and bear with their's. But, I'm sure others have been successful with their favorites too. ;)
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Hazcat has you on the right track. You can find them used for a good bargain as well, and most of them will have been shot very little. Get common calibers in .308 and above and you will be fine. For moose, choose a good 180gr bullet and put it where it needs to go. The .270 is also an excellent choice, and with the proper bullet will do just as good. It is a very popular caliber, and for years was the one that was usually the first one released for a new rifle.
-Bidah
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LaMott,
My personal caliber for a "do all" is 30-06. The 30-06 has been "doing it" for 100 years and you can get ammo any where.
Savage is the most accurate out of the box production rifle and Stevens is probably next best and either will put it in the 10 ring all day at 100 yards. I'd get a fixed power scope ( 3 or 4 power, 3 is best I think) and you're in business! I have a TASCO 4 power on my Savage 111F and though the scope only cost about $70.00 it has stayed tight for 500 round so far!
Here is a link to a down-loadable program that is easy to use to see ballistics for all common rounds. It's from Federal.
http://www.federalpremium.com/default.asp?br=1
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.308 and .30-06 are mine as well.
-Bidah
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For all-around use: .308. Easy to find, a bit shorter than the .30-06, and quite powerful.
For big game: either .300 Win Mag or .300 Win Short Mag. My brother has the short mag and loves it, to the point of arguing with everyone over it. Frankly, it's seems a good choice for a mag, and he's not had trouble finding the ammunition. Only problem was the price of the ammunition...
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GT,
I just not a big fan of the eargeshsplittin loudenboomers to shoot North American game at 350 yards. Losts of noise, lots of recoil and expensive, harder to find ammo when the "old standbys" will do the job just fine. Heck, in most cases I think 30-06 is a bit large for white tail so the WSMs and WSSMs are way over kill in my book.
Also what's the big deal with using a standard length action (30-06, .270)? .308 is a good round but I don't see the mistique in a short action over a standard action. The .308 does shoot a little flatter and with a very slightly reduced recoill compared to the 30-06 and I would support his choice of either. .270 is also a great round but they don't stock much of the ammo in my Wally World so I tend to shy away from it.
I guess I'm just a "retro" kinda guy.
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GT,
I just not a big fan of the eargeshsplittin loudenboomers to shoot North American game at 350 yards. Losts of noise, lots of recoil and expensive, harder to find ammo when the "old standbys" will do the job just fine. Heck, in most cases I think 30-06 is a bit large for white tail so the WSMs and WSSMs are way over kill in my book.
For white tail and most North American game, I'd agree. For bear or moose, I gotta disagree. A magnum means that the larger animals will be taken cleanly, and frankyl, .30-06 is the floor for bears above black bear. I probably not use the .308 there even though it's my preference. As to elk, a .30-06 should work fine, but I'd still go with a Mag. I don't own one and probably won't ever, as if I ever get to safari I want a double in .375 H&H or .458 Win Mag. If I and a lion want the same elephant, I want to make sure he goes down before I do.
Also what's the big deal with using a standard length action (30-06, .270)? .308 is a good round but I don't see the mistique in a short action over a standard action. The .308 does shoot a little flatter and with a very slightly reduced recoill compared to the 30-06 and I would support his choice of either. .270 is also a great round but they don't stock much of the ammo in my Wally World so I tend to shy away from it.
I guess I'm just a "retro" kinda guy.
I oughta stick you with my brother in a room and watch y'all fight it out over short action v. standard. Like I said, I prefer the .308. I persoanlly don't care much about action length, but the guides I 've heard of like short actions.
I like .308 because you can find and use milsurp and commercial. There's not much milsurp .30-06 anymore. I like the .270 as well, but for what LaMott stated his game was going to be, a Mag covers it all cleanly.
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For white tail and most North American game, I'd agree. For bear or moose, I gotta disagree. A magnum means that the larger animals will be taken cleanly, and frankyl, .30-06 is the floor for bears above black bear. I probably not use the .308 there even though it's my preference. As to elk, a .30-06 should work fine, but I'd still go with a Mag. I don't own one and probably won't ever, as if I ever get to safari I want a double in .375 H&H or .458 Win Mag. If I and a lion want the same elephant, I want to make sure he goes down before I do.
I oughta stick you with my brother in a room and watch y'all fight it out over short action v. standard. Like I said, I prefer the .308. I persoanlly don't care much about action length, but the guides I 've heard of like short actions.
I like .308 because you can find and use milsurp and commercial. There's not much milsurp .30-06 anymore. I like the .270 as well, but for what LaMott stated his game was going to be, a Mag covers it all cleanly.
Gee, I wonder how we managed to take all of those animals before magnums?
As far a double rifle....I WANT ONE! Actually I think it would be cool to hunt with a double in .308, .270, 30-06, 45-70.....
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Gee, I wonder how we managed to take all of those animals before magnums?
Didn't say couldn't, said should. By that logic, why use smokeless powder, or even a firearm at all? Longbows worked great for centuries...
As far a double rifle....I WANT ONE! Actually I think it would be cool to hunt with a double in .308, .270, 30-06, 45-70.....
Quite.
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Didn't say couldn't, said should. By that logic, why use smokeless powder, or even a firearm at all? Longbows worked great for centuries...
Quite.
Yep, My son uses a recurve.
BTW, just raggin on ya, don't mean no harm. :) Just my thought that a lot of calibers that come out are soley to drive the industry by filling a need that does not exist.
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Same here. ;D Witness the .327 magnum. (I'll probably catch it for that)
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Same here. ;D Witness the .327 magnum. (I'll probably catch it for that)
That is a ??? HUH?? ??? round.
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GT'er...LOL!
I suppose that sooner or later I'll have to address the little sucker, althought, in the interest of total disclosure, I thought the .32 H&R was an okay little cartridge and slightly better than a .380. The specs on the Federal round has it moving out pretty quickly, and, hey, 6 rounds are better than 5. I could rationalize it pretty easily in that my Sweetie shoots .32 H&R in cowboy action shooting, so there's always a bunch of .32s around...I wwould have preferred Ruger introduce an alloy-framed SP-101, but, sigh...no dice.
And lest I be accused of horrific thread drift, a new executive at the Outdoor Channel asked for my recommendations on an elk rifle. I suggested (and he got) a Ruger in .300 Win Mag. Lots of alternatives in loaded ammo; more punch in the long haul than a .308; very reasonable price.
Michael B
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GT'er...LOL!
I suppose that sooner or later I'll have to address the little sucker, although, in the interest of total disclosure, I thought the .32 H&R was an okay little cartridge and slightly better than a .380. The specs on the Federal round has it moving out pretty quickly, and, hey, 6 rounds are better than 5. I could rationalize it pretty easily in that my Sweetie shoots .32 H&R in cowboy action shooting, so there's always a bunch of .32s around...I would have preferred Ruger introduce an alloy-framed SP-101, but, sigh...no dice.
Figured someone would say something along those lines. All I can say is what I've say about the .45 GAP v. .45 ACP: given that it's able to achieve the same result (arguable, I know), it could replace it or be used as a substitute.
Instead of the J fame with 6 shots of .327, I'd go for a K frame or bigger .357 with 3in barrel, but that's me. Hmm... could get the wife a k frame 3in in the .327, which would hold 7 or eight shots? She'd like the lower recoil, but would probably be...unhappy at the least to be buying more guns. She's a big fan of the "one gun, lots of furniture approach."
And lest I be accused of horrific thread drift, a new executive at the Outdoor Channel asked for my recommendations on an elk rifle. I suggested (and he got) a Ruger in .300 Win Mag. Lots of alternatives in loaded ammo; more punch in the long haul than a .308; very reasonable price.
Michael B
YES!!
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Michael, Michael, Michael,....It's an ELK not a T-Rex. 30-06!
Heck, you can bring an elk down with a .270 or even a 25-06. A 44 lb draw compound bow with a 75 grain broad head will do it!
"I recently shot a moose in the Yukon. All with the same set up. I usually shoot between 45 and 48 lbs. I use Axis arrows and Muzzy 75 grain." Said by the CEO of Muzzy.
I think you just like people to go deaf and hurt their shoulders. :)
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Yeah, I know you can shoot deer with just about anything from the 22 centerfires all the way up to as large as you want to go. But I still think variety is the spice of life. Yeah, I could use my 30-30 from here on out and get along great, but I sure do like shooting my 30-06. That will always be one of my favorites. Shoots like a dream. But then there is the 243. 1/2 inch groups with 90 grain GameKings. But I don't want to leave at home the 6.5x55. It loves Nosler BTs. And yes the 300 Win Mag is a great shooter, for when maybe just maybe I can go on that elk hunt with the guys. So, get what you enjoy. Shoot what you like. No reason we should be limited to just one hunting rifle. Boy, that 257 Roberts looks kind of interesting.
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Do not overlook the 6.5X55. I know to small, not enough whoopa**, but tell the more than one elk I put in my freezer that.The poor people of Sweden, still think it is a moose cartridge. OH Well. ;) Doug