The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on November 05, 2009, 04:25:34 PM
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The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938
'nuff said! >:(
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A Major? Odd to say the least.
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Not if he is a 'transfer' from Iran army!
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Yeah...there will be one hell of a sh*t-storm blowin' in off this one before all the wash comes clean. >:(
I gotta stew on this one a while before I can manage the ability to post something remotely coherent on this one.
sum-bitch......always something gummin' up the works. >:( >:( >:(
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People have a hard time believing how disarmed soldiers are on an US military base.
I would bet the farm there are more armed people walking the streets of my town than on most bases.
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People have a hard time believing how disarmed soldiers are on an US military base.
I would bet the farm there are more armed people walking the streets of my town than on most bases.
Very true....which goes to bolster my opinion that soldiers should go armed, and be trained in their effective use of same.
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Yeah...there will be one hell of a sh*t-storm blowin' in off this one before all the wash comes clean. >:(
I gotta stew on this one a while before I can manage the ability to post something remotely coherent on this one.
sum-bitch......always something gummin' up the works. >:( >:( >:(
We will probably know more tomorrow. Real time reporting tends to be wrong 99% of the time.
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Very true....which goes to bolster my opinion that soldiers should go armed, and be trained in their effective use of same.
+1 on that! All soldiers should've been reqired to be armed since the Oklahoma City bombing.
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The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938
'nuff said! >:(
+1.. I'm with ya Hazcat... >:(
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Just one guy with a hand gun? I doubt it. The first reports said three, but its all nonsense until the dust clears and the facts come to light. However, inflicting thirty on casulties with a pistol is beyond an extraordinary amount of skill.I do not doubt the guy has accomplices and this was more than "road rage" on the part of a disgruntled guy going postal. Particularly a major. That's the promotion that determines if the army wants to keep you or say so long. They don't give oak leaves out at the door.
FQ13
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name sound familiar? makes you say Hmmmm..
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154979,00.html
Friday, April 29, 2005
FORT BRAGG, N.C. — A military jury sentenced a soldier to death Thursday for a grenade and rifle attack on his own comrades during the opening days of the Iraq invasion, a barrage that killed two officers and that prosecutors said was driven by religious extremism.
Sgt. Hasan Akbar (search), who gave a brief, barely audible apology hours earlier, stood at attention between his lawyers as the verdict was delivered. He showed no emotion.
He could have been sentenced to life in prison with or without parole for the early morning March 2003 attack, which also wounded 14 fellow members of the Army's 101st Airborne Division (search) at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait.
The 15-person military jury, which last week took just two and a half hours to convict Akbar of premeditated murder and attempted premeditated murder, deliberated for about seven hours in the sentencing phase. After jurors reached a verdict, they voted on whether to reconsider the decision after one juror asked that they do so.
The sentence will be reviewed by a commanding officer and automatically appealed. If Akbar is executed, it would be by lethal injection.
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Just one guy with a hand gun? I doubt it. The first reports said three, but its all nonsense until the dust clears and the facts come to light. However, inflicting thirty on casulties with a pistol is beyond an extraordinary amount of skill.I do not doubt the guy has accomplices and this was more than "road rage" on the part of a disgruntled guy going postal. Particularly a major. That's the promotion that determines if the army wants to keep you or say so long. They don't give oak leaves out at the door.
FQ13
Wrong as usual!
He had two hand guns. In a crowded room it ain't hard to inflict that kind of damage. One round is gonna hit more than one person. Hell give me two Glocks with 17 rounds or so each and it wouldn't be hard at all.
There are two other suspects in custody but rumor is they were not shooters.
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Wrong as usual!
He had two hand guns. In a crowded room it ain't hard to inflict that kind of damage. One round is gonna hit more than one person. Hell give me two Glocks with 17 rounds or so each and it wouldn't be hard at all.
There are two other suspects in custody but rumor is they were not shooters.
If thats the final verdict, then that is what it is. The reports I read did not specify the location or circumstances. Just that there were three shooters. Still, very good marksmanship and very strange circumstances.
FQ13
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Just one guy with a hand gun? I doubt it. The first reports said three, but its all nonsense until the dust clears and the facts come to light. However, inflicting thirty on casulties with a pistol is beyond an extraordinary amount of skill.I do not doubt the guy has accomplices and this was more than "road rage" on the part of a disgruntled guy going postal. Particularly a major. That's the promotion that determines if the army wants to keep you or say so long. They don't give oak leaves out at the door.
FQ13
It all depends on the level of training, pre-planned tactics, and motivation as to how much damage can be done in a short amount of time by an aggressor.
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People have a hard time believing how disarmed soldiers are on an US military base.
I would bet the farm there are more armed people walking the streets of my town than on most bases.
Just because they are military doesn't mean they didn't panic.
As you said, FQ, we will have to wait for all the details.....
If we ever get all the details.
If thats the final verdict, then that is what it is. The reports I read did not specify the location or circumstances. Just that there were three shooters. Still, very good marksmanship and very strange circumstances.
FQ13
FTA:
Cone said that a gunman entered a facility known as the Soldier Readiness Facility, where soldiers who are preparing to deploy go for last minute medical check ups and dental treatment. Sources told ABC News that the soldiers gathered there were getting ready to deploy to Iraq.
The gunman used two handguns, Cone said. He wasn't sure if the shooter reloaded the weapons during the attack.
"The gunman opened fire and essentially due to the quick respond of the police forces was killed," said Cone.
The shooter was killed by civilian law enforcement and one police officer died in the shootout, Cone said.
The gunman's suspected accomplices were taken into custody in an adjacent facility known as the old SportsDome Complex.
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The sentence will be reviewed by a commanding officer and automatically appealed. If Akbar is executed, it would be by lethal injection.
The POS should be beheaded or firing squad... >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Back in the 90's the 82nd Airborne had an Instructor Sgt who had served in the Egyptian Army. He wound up being sentanced to prison for his continuing ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terror groups.
And yes, the insane thing is that US military bases are a gun control advocates wet dream. Generally speaking, the only people with arms AND live ammo are MP's and guys on guard duty.
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I hope our military will "wake up" and do further testing and evaluation measures to prevent or lessen the chances of "crazies" infiltrating and doing crap like this. And it's not just people with with foreign names, i.e. gangs and others are slowly degrading our military and using it to harm others.
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http://www.pakistanlink.com/community/2002/Mar/08/05.html
Is this the same guy? Bill T.
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http://www.pakistanlink.com/community/2002/Mar/08/05.html
Is this the same guy? Bill T.
Look his name and 'facebook'. Cancel that:
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/maj._malik_nadal_hasan%3A_fort_hood_shooter
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"... a murderous rampage that officials believe was carried out by an Army psychiatrist." He's the one that needed a psychiatrist.
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Makes a good case for internment camps like Japanese Americans went to during WWII.
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Makes a good case for internment camps like Japanese Americans went to during WWII.
As long as we intern them in Saudi Arabia!
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He was born in virginia. Went to Virginia Tech. A psychiotrist who had worked for some years at Walter Reed. His cousin said that this was to have been his first deployment. He was killed by the responding police.
The number of casualties indicate to me that they were in an enclosed space. When he began shooting there was just no where to go.
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I saw the Swat team arriving to protect the military? WTH? If our military is that vulnerable, they will never win.
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Woody, Other than MP's and guys on Guard duty, There is no live ammo except at the range.
A military Base is essentially a "Gun Free Zone".
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Makes a good case for internment camps like Japanese Americans went to during WWII.
Tom
One of the very few things I don't have a slightly twisted since of humor about is that. Curtailing immigration from muslim countries seems like good idea and one the Europeans should have adopted decades ago. Why import trouble? But...once you are here, you are here. You have same rights as me and that is something I take seriously. You may be a treasonous scum bag, but so was Mcveigh. Stop them at the bordrs. If they got here LEGALLY they they get the benefit of the doubt. If not, deal with them.
FQ13
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"... a murderous rampage that officials believe was carried out by an Army psychiatrist." He's the one that needed a psychiatrist.
Mental Health "professionals" can often be even more "screwed up" than the people they treat. If he was just panicking over his pending deployment, who even hired a lawyer to fight his deployment, now his blog posts are coming out,.....
Col. Terry, worked with Hasan, and according to Fox News, was quite vocal on his anti-war views.
I'm sure more will come out in the coming days.
Maybe U.S. military bases will re-evaluate their "Gun Free" attitudes. I made service calls to the marina on Camp LeJeune, and after checking in with nothing more than a NC Drivers License, got a pass, and went right through the gate, in a work van. No search, no nothing.
If I was a threat from the outside, I could have caused a lot of carnage. Hate to say it, but I view this as a vulnerability.
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Press Conference has the shooter still alive.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting
FORT HOOD, Texas – A military mental health doctor facing deployment overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army post on Thursday, setting off on a rampage that killed 11 other people and left 31 wounded. Authorities killed the gunman, and the violence was believed to be the worst mass shooting in history at a U.S. military base.
The shooting began around 1:30 p.m., when shots were fired at the base's Soldier Readiness Center, where soldiers who are about to be deployed or who are returning undergo medical screening, said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood.
President Barack Obama called the shooting "a horrific outburst of violence." He said it is a tragedy to lose a soldier overseas and even more horrifying when they come under fire at an Army base on American soil.
"We will make sure that we get answers to every single question about this horrible incident," the commander in chief said in Washington. "We are going to stay on this."
A law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.
It was unclear what the motive was, though it appeared he was upset about a scheduled deployment. U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison said the Army major was about to deploy overseas, though it was unclear if he was headed to Iraq or Afghanistan and when he was scheduled to leave. Hutchison said she was told about the upcoming deployment by generals based at Fort Hood.
Retired Army Col. Terry Lee told Fox News that he worked with Hasan, who had hoped Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.
Military officials say Hasan, 39, was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July. The officials, who had access to Hasan's military record, said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential.
The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He graduated from Virginia Tech, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.
Officials were investigating whether Hasan was his birth name or if he may have changed his name, possibly as part of a conversion to Islam. However, they were not certain of his religion.
The Soldier Readiness Center holds hundreds of people and is one of the most populated parts of the base, said Steve Moore, a spokesman for III Corps at Fort Hood. Nearby there are barracks and a food center where there are fast food chains. The center is part of the largest active duty armored post in the United States. Covering 339 square miles, the post halfway between Austin and Waco was home to about 52,000 troops as of earlier this year.
A graduation ceremony for soldiers who finished college courses while deployed was going on nearby at the time of the shooting, said Sgt. Rebekah Lampman, a Fort Hood spokeswoman.
Greg Schanepp, Carter's regional director in Texas, was at Fort Hood, said John Stone, a spokesman for U.S. Rep. John Carter, whose district includes the Army post. Schanepp was at a graduation ceremony when a soldier who had been shot in the back came running toward him and alerted him of the shooting, Stone said. The soldier told Schanepp not to go in the direction of the shooter, he said.
Soldiers don't carry weapons with them unless they're doing training exercises, said Spc. Jerry Richard, 27, who works at the building where the shooting happened — though he was not on post at the time.
"Overseas you are ready for it. But here you can't even defend yourself," he said.
Two other soldiers taken into custody following the deadly rampage have been released, Fort Hood spokesman Christopher Haug said. "They're not believed to be involved in the incident," Haug said. He said a third person was in custody, however.
The wounded were dispersed among hospitals in central Texas, Cone said.
Lisa Pfund of Random Lake, Wis., says her daughter, 19-year-old Amber Bahr, was shot in the stomach but was in stable condition. "We know nothing, just that she was shot in the belly," Pfund told The Associated Press. She couldn't provide more details and only spoke with emergency personnel.
Pfund said Bahr joined the reserves when she was 17 to earn money for school and loved being in the military even though none of her friends were interested in joining the Army.
A Fort Hood spokesman said he could not immediately confirm any identities of the injured.
"I ask that all of you keep these families and these individuals in your prayers today," Texas Gov. Rick Perry said.
The shootings on the Texas military base stirred memories of other recent mass shootings in the United States, including 13 dead at a New York immigrant center in April, 10 killed during a gunman's rampage across Alabama in March and 32 killed in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history at Virginia Tech in 2007.
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I really want to know what this guys motives were. Disgruntled postal worker or born again muslim who began to hate the "Great Satan" (at least we are not some low rent lesser Satan)? I also love the name of the girl's home town. Random Lake? I guess in the Land of lakes its hard to name them all. ;D
FQ13 who will pray for her recovery
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Russia is "the lesser Satan".
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Didn't they call Isreal the little satan?
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The shooter isn't dead.... Tell me... how do you get a fact like that wrong. All day it's been reported by every news agency and the base commander that both the shooter and the first responder were killed.... Now it's been confirmed they are both ALIVE!
WT...
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Because every time someone is shot the media automatically assume that it has to be fatal. That's why.
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Because every time someone is shot the media automatically assume that it has to be fatal. That's why.
"The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
;)
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"The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
;)
Mark Twain AND Eddie Rickenbacker said that.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_fort_hood_shooting_suspect
WASHINGTON – His name appears on radical Internet postings. A fellow officer says he fought his deployment to Iraq and argued with soldiers who supported U.S. wars. He required counseling as a medical student because of problems with patients.
There are many unknowns about Nidal Malik Hasan, the man authorities say is responsible for the worst mass killing on a U.S. military base. Most of all, his motive. But details of his life and mindset, emerging from official sources and personal acquaintances, are troubling.
For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood, Texas, in July, the 39-year-old Army major worked at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing his career in psychiatry, as an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in disaster and preventive psychiatry. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.
While an intern at Walter Reed, Hasan had some "difficulties" that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.
Grieger said privacy laws prevented him from going into details but noted that the problems had to do with Hasan's interactions with patients. He recalled Hasan as a "mostly very quiet" person who never spoke ill of the military or his country.
"He swore an oath of loyalty to the military," Grieger said. "I didn't hear anything contrary to those oaths."
But, more recently, federal agents grew suspicious.
At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.
They had not determined for certain whether Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.
One of the officials said late Thursday that federal search warrants were being drawn up to authorize the seizure of Hasan's computer.
Retired Army Col. Terry Lee, who said he worked with Hasan, told Fox News that Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.
Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his Army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md. He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim.
"I got the impression that he was a committed soldier," Khan said. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.
On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.
"I don't know why he listed Palestinian," Khan said, "He was not born in Palestine."
Nothing stood out about Hasan as radical or extremist, Khan said.
"We hardly ever got to discussing politics," Khan said. "Mostly we were discussing religious matters, nothing too controversial, nothing like an extremist."
Hasan earned his rank of major in April 2008, according to a July 2008 Army Times article.
He served eight years as an enlisted soldier. He also served in the ROTC as an undergraduate at Virginia Tech University in Blacksburg. He received a bachelor's degree in biochemistry there in 1997.
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Not terror related at all, nothing to see here, move along...... ::)
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This gets sadder and more outrageous as it goes. It sounds like the Army treated him well. Two enlisted tours which he obviously thought were ok or he wouldn't have re-upped, paid for his undergrad schooling and then put him through med school. This is how he repays them? WTF? What happened with this guy?
FQ13
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This gets sadder and more outrageous as it goes. It sounds like the Army treated him well. Two enlisted tours which he obviously thought were ok or he wouldn't have re-upped, paid for his undergrad schooling and then put him through med school. This is how he repays them? WTF? What happened with this guy?
FQ13
It's called radical Muslim.
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Like I said, Good argument for internment camps or deportation.
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It's called radical Muslim.
Thing is Haz, he didn't start out that way or he was the worlds best sleeper agent. Assuming he enlisted at 18 plus four years ROTC plus four years med school, plus an internship he obviousley spent his adult life in the Army with many chances to back out. Hell, unless the law has changed, its still two for one for Army sponsored education. If he didn't want to deploy he could have resigned and paid back the cost of his education. Something obviously got to him along the way. A born again muslim, religion trumping patriotism. It doesn't surprise me but it does piss me off.
FQ13
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I heard on the news that his attitude changed right after 9-11.
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Okay we've got to get some things straight.
1) This was terrible! Absolutely atrocious, but suggesting internment camps for people is not only morally wrong, but evokes one of the most despicable periods in American history. Largely, the internment camps of WWI consisted of Japanese families that harbored no ill will against the United States.
2) There is no such thing as a born again Muslim. There is such a thing as a born again Christian and this is a product of accepting Christ's salvation and God's New Covenant. Let's not associate Christian attributes to Islamo-extremists.
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SJ,
While I agree with your thoughts about the internment camps I do think it is well past time that we get over the PC no profiling crap. Also there should be a moratorium on Muslim visas and citizen requests.
We must face facts...Not all Muslims are terrorists but ALL terrorist are Muslim (and them that ain't don't complain about them that is!).
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2) There is no such thing as a born again Muslim. There is such a thing as a born again Christian and this is a product of accepting Christ's salvation and God's New Covenant. Let's not associate Christian attributes to Islamo-extremists.
By using the term Born Again, I merely mean either a new convert or someone who came back to a childhood faith long abandonded. You know as well as I do that there is no one more fanatical than the newly converted. If the term offends you, I won't use it anymore, but do understand that a Christian fanatic is just as dangerous as a Muslim, Hindu or Jewish one. The basic problem, theology aside, is believing that you are doing God's will and everyone who opposes you is not only wrong, but evil and needs to be destroyed. Its the sin of pride, dressed up in religious clothes. However, I won't use the born again phrase again, though for the record, I came to Christ at 25 and it doesn't bother me. BTW, I agree on the camps 100%.
FQ13
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By using the term Born Again, I merely mean either a new convert or someone who came back to a childhood faith long abandonded. You know as well as I do that there is no one more fanatical than the newly converted. If the term offends you, I won't use it anymore, but do understand that a Christian fanatic is just as dangerous as a Muslim, Hindu or Jewish one. The basic problem, theology aside, is believing that you are doing God's will and everyone who opposes you is not only wrong, but evil and needs to be destroyed. Its the sin of pride, dressed up in religious clothes. However, I won't use the born again phrase again, though for the record, I came to Christ at 25 and it doesn't bother me. BTW, I agree on the camps 100%.
FQ13
Ya want to re-think that statement? And PULEESE don't bring up the 12th century, we (Christians) have matured, Muslims have not.
Please site where radical Christians profess and pursue genocide in the modern era.
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Haz,
I too understand the hostility that is sometimes directed towards Muslims but the fact is that not all Muslims (in fact, very few) agree with terrorist tactics.
The Muslims of Arabia only actually constitute only 20% of the world population, and even there only a small margin supports such terrorism. The fact is, most Americans still know very little about Muslims. It's better than it once was, but even now people don't know the differences between Sunni and Shi'a. They know nothing about Sufi mysticism or Druze secrecy or the Yazidis or Muslims in India who blend Hinduism with Islam.
In fact, most Americans don't even know the five pillars of the Islamic faith. Most don't even know the true meaning of Jihad (it's "struggle" and is only expressed in terms of "holy war" in very rare cases). There are so many cultural differences and sects that we just tend to lump them all together. We are altogether terrified of the unknown. In fact, most Americans would be dumbfounded to know that a Protestant Christian created what we know as the Modern Arabic Language. Or that the founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine was in fact, an Orthodox Christian. In fact, Americans believe that the Taliban in Afghanistan represent mainstream Islam (they most certainly don't and they get away with it because the literacy rate is 11% and the people can't even read the Qur'an in the first place).
I'm a flag-wavin', gun-toting, bible-thumpin' Christian, but I'm also a student of Middle Eastern studies and the fact of the matter is that we are largely ignorant of what happens in the rest of the world.
There is a good documentary available on Youtube that goes over the perceptions of Arabs in MSM and film. It's called "Reel Bad Arabs" and it's a good one to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewaox9UA6NE
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SJ,
I am NOT questioning your patriotism.
BUT I have seen precious damn little of the Muslim community protesting these terrorist acts. CAIR is the main mouth piece and they ARE terrorists!
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Ya want to re-think that? And PULEESE don't bring up the 12th century, we (Christians) have matured, Muslims have not.
Please site where radical Christians profess and pursue genocide in the modern era.
Its not the religion I'm referring to Haz, but the mindset. Look I try to be as open minded as the next guy. Hell I would bet money I'm one of the only guys here who has actually read the Koran (Penguin addition, required in an undergrad class). Having done that, I will "recite as much as I am able'. I do not like Islam Sam I Am. I wouldn't like it as an atheist, I wouldn't consider it as an agnostic, like I was in my twenties when I was looking for God, and I sure don't like it as a Christian. That said, a murdering terrorist is not made so much by his religion as his character. I think its easier to build a terrorist using the Koran rather than the Bible, but you still have to have the same materials to work with. These are a deep desire to be part of something bigger, a basic detachment from others, or alternatively a deep attachment that drives you toward vengance for real or perceived wrongs, and a black and white world view that lets you seek certainty, not faith, and bind you to either a religion or a secular ideology like communism. You take these elements and you get someone who sees the world as divided into good and evil, with no grey where most folks live. If you're not on board with them, you are a legitimate target, and if mistakes are made its all for the greater good. I will say that Islam lends itself to this more than most religions, but the fact is, that a sociopath is a sociopath. Give them them the Koran rather than the Bible and you're more likely to have a body count, but the odds of a body count are pretty good either way. Nurture matters, but nature cannot be discounted.
FQ13
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Its not the religion I'm referring to Haz, but the mindset. Look I try to be as open minded as the next guy. Hell I would bet money I'm one of the only guys here who has actually read the Koran (Penguin addition, required in an undergrad class). Having done that, I will "recite as much as I am able'. I do not like Islam Sam I Am. I wouldn't like it as an atheist, I wouldn't consider it as an agnostic, like I was in my twenties when I was looking for God, and I sure don't like it as a Christian. That said, a murdering terrorist is not made so much by his religion as his character. I think its easier to build a terrorist using the Koran rather than the Bible, but you still have to have the same materials to work with. These are a deep desire to be part of something bigger, a basic detachment from others, or alternatively a deep attachment that drives you toward vengance for real or perceived wrongs, and a black and white world view that lets you seek certainty, not faith, and bind you to either a religion or a secular ideology like communism. You take these elements and you get someone who sees the world as divided into good and evil, with no grey where most folks live. If you're not on board with them, you are a legitimate target, and if mistakes are made its all for the greater good. I will say that Islam lends itself to this more than most religions, but the fact is, that a sociopath is a sociopath. Give them them the Koran rather than the Bible and you're more likely to have a body count, but the odds of a body count are pretty good either way. Nurture matters, but nature cannot be discounted.
FQ13
Quaker how much are you willing to bet? ;D
I totally agree that any extremist is capable of doing harm---
40 years ago upstanding "Christians" were hanging, beating, killing and burning blacks in my beloved American south. It's all a matter of mindset...
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Quaker how much are you willing to bet? ;D
I totally agree that any extremist is capable of doing harm---
40 years ago upstanding "Christians" were hanging, beating, killing and burning blacks in my beloved American south. It's all a matter of mindset...
One of those was my Great Grandfather I loved him dearly, respeccted him for being a real Southern gentleman and still carry his Parker. But when my Grand dad died, I wound up going through some of his effects and found the Klan stuff. This wasn't the silly Jerry Springer edition of the Klan either. It was the Klan back in the Twenties and Thirties when that meant something, and none of it was good. It was a very unpleasant wake up call. Don't tell me Christians can't be good little terrorists as well. The sad thing is Pop was in the Klan because it was expected for an upper middle class Southerner at the time, like the Rotarians, only with a body count. People associate themselves with evil for the most banal of reasons. I get my revenge from the fact that I lost my virginity to a black girl, and teach racial politics. I don't think the spinning in his grave has stopped yet.
FQ13
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FQ,
I agree and disagree with your premise. There are crazies every where but Muslims are FAR more likely to be sociopaths than Christians. Heck, LOOK at the teachings of both. As I said before, please name a group of Christians any where that believe that killing non Christians is not only a good thing but a desirable thing.
SJ,
Those Americans you talk of are now Dems (see Bryd, Robert J.) and I believe it was a bit more that 40 years ago. BTW you do know that it was the Dems that filibustered against the civil rights act and that Wallace was a Dem, don't you?
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We must face facts...Not all Muslims are terrorists but ALL terrorist are Muslim (and them that ain't don't complain about them that is!).
I'm sure those who've had to deal with the IRA or some of the more militant Hindu movements in India would disagree with you on that...
What this incident does prove is that the military needs to more closely screen its personnel for the signs that Maj. Hassan showed and take definitive action BEFORE events like this occurr---instead of the prevalent "don't ask, don't tell" attitude. Would the military of the 1960's have allowed someone who demonstrated pro-Soviet attitudes to rise through the ranks without significant scrutiny?
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SJ,
Those Americans you talk of are now Dems (see Bryd, Robert J.) and I believe it was a bit more that 40 years ago. BTW you do know that it was the Dems that filibustered against the civil rights act and that Wallace was a Dem, don't you?
Yeah but sort of thing transcends even party lines.
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The KKK did not accept Republicans, since it was originally formed by Democrats to resist the Republican instituted reconstruction of the devastated south.
As to this PC BS sympathy for "average Muslims", They are like politicians, THEY ARE ALL GUILTY. Them that are not terrorists are not doing anything about those that are, that makes them accessories. So please spare me the Rodney King BS.
FQ, while you quote away from your Koran, why don't you mention the "Sword Verses". Or do you avoid them because they don't fit your rose tinted view.
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I see the COWARD went to a gun free zone to enjoy his killing.
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FQ,
I agree and disagree with your premise. There are crazies every where but Muslims are FAR more likely to be sociopaths than Christians. Heck, LOOK at the teachings of both. As I said before, please name a group of Christians any where that believe that killing non Christians is not only a good thing but a desirable thing.
SJ,
Those Americans you talk of are now Dems (see Bryd, Robert J.) and I believe it was a bit more that 40 years ago. BTW you do know that it was the Dems that filibustered against the civil rights act and that Wallace was a Dem, don't you?
I disagree with both of you. For one, so-called "Christian" terrorists are an anomaly these days. The Klan was never a Christian organization any more than it was a Scottish organization (the burning cross was a signal for Clan members to drop what they were doing and bring their claymores to the chief's compound). Even people like th guy who shot the later-term abortion doctor in church was aberrant. So the "moral equivalency" NS about Christian and mooslim terrorists is just that - BS.
More to the point, the koran is clear on the treatment of infidels - kill them all, kill what you can, and Mohammed and Allah will be pleased and you will be blessed. There is no amount of sugar-coating by CAIR or its minions in gummint that can change that. So this is not an individual case of a sociopath, although that claim could be made against all of islam. When you are raised that way, taught to do kill those not like you (and that applies to Sunni if you're Shi'a and vice versa), you cannot claim a psychological disorder - it is an inherrent part of you.
No more PC, no more hiding the fact that islam is a vile, mid-7th century excuse for a so-called religion. It is a destructive force and seeks nothing more than world domination and subjugation. As a free man, I will resist islam in everything I do. Other free men and women should look to do the same, and not apologize or give them a pass on their crimes against humanity.
And I mean today, in the here and now. Not a 1000 years ago with Crusades or a so-called Islamic "golden age" of learning and enlightenment 500 years ago - now.
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More to the point, the koran is clear on the treatment of infidels - kill them all, kill what you can, and Mohammed and Allah will be pleased and you will be blessed. There is no amount of sugar-coating by CAIR or its minions in gummint that can change that. So this is not an individual case of a sociopath, although that claim could be made against all of islam. When you are raised that way, taught to do kill those not like you (and that applies to Sunni if you're Shi'a and vice versa), you cannot claim a psychological disorder - it is an inherrent part of you.
No more PC, no more hiding the fact that islam is a vile, mid-7th century excuse for a so-called religion. It is a destructive force and seeks nothing more than world domination and subjugation. As a free man, I will resist islam in everything I do. Other free men and women should look to do the same, and not apologize or give them a pass on their crimes against humanity.
And I mean today, in the here and now. Not a 1000 years ago with Crusades or a so-called Islamic "golden age" of learning and enlightenment 500 years ago - now.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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Path, The so called "Golden age of Islam" was actually the death of the ARAB culture that gave us things like our number system and the concept of the zero point. Islam has never CREATED anything, it only suppresses and destroys. They actually quit thinking in the 1400's.