Shooter Identified

[fightingquaker13]

It's called radical Muslim.

Thing is Haz, he didn't start out that way or he was the worlds best sleeper agent. Assuming he enlisted at 18 plus four years ROTC plus four years med school, plus an internship he obviousley spent his adult life in the Army with many chances to back out. Hell, unless the law has changed, its still two for one for Army sponsored education. If he didn't want to deploy he could have resigned and paid back the cost of his education. Something obviously got to him along the way. A born again muslim, religion trumping patriotism. It doesn't surprise me but it does piss me off.
FQ13 

[Hazcat]

I heard on the news that his attitude changed right after 9-11.

[sanjuancb]

Okay we've got to get some things straight.

1) This was terrible! Absolutely atrocious, but suggesting internment camps for people is not only morally wrong, but evokes one of the most despicable periods in American history. Largely, the internment camps of WWI consisted of Japanese families that harbored no ill will against the United States.

2) There is no such thing as a born again Muslim. There is such a thing as a born again Christian and this is a product of accepting Christ's salvation and God's New Covenant. Let's not associate Christian attributes to Islamo-extremists.

[Hazcat]

SJ,

While I agree with your thoughts about the internment camps I do think it is well past time that we get over the PC no profiling crap.  Also there should be a moratorium on Muslim visas and citizen requests.

We must face facts...Not all Muslims are terrorists but ALL terrorist are Muslim (and them that ain't don't complain about them that is!).

[fightingquaker13]

2) There is no such thing as a born again Muslim. There is such a thing as a born again Christian and this is a product of accepting Christ's salvation and God's New Covenant. Let's not associate Christian attributes to Islamo-extremists.

By using the term Born Again, I merely mean either a new convert or someone who came back to a childhood faith long abandonded. You know as well as I do that there is no one more fanatical than the newly converted. If the term offends you, I won't use it anymore, but do understand that a Christian fanatic is just as dangerous as a Muslim, Hindu or Jewish one. The basic problem, theology aside, is believing that you are doing God's will and everyone who opposes you is not only wrong, but evil and needs to be destroyed. Its the sin of pride, dressed up in religious clothes. However, I won't use the born again phrase again, though for the record, I came to Christ at 25 and it doesn't bother me. BTW, I agree on the camps 100%.
FQ13

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

By using the term Born Again, I merely mean either a new convert or someone who came back to a childhood faith long abandonded. You know as well as I do that there is no one more fanatical than the newly converted. If the term offends you, I won't use it anymore, but do understand that a Christian fanatic is just as dangerous as a Muslim, Hindu or Jewish one. The basic problem, theology aside, is believing that you are doing God's will and everyone who opposes you is not only wrong, but evil and needs to be destroyed. Its the sin of pride, dressed up in religious clothes. However, I won't use the born again phrase again, though for the record, I came to Christ at 25 and it doesn't bother me. BTW, I agree on the camps 100%.
FQ13

Ya want to re-think that statement?  And PULEESE don't bring up the 12th century, we (Christians) have matured, Muslims have not.

Please site where radical Christians profess and pursue genocide in the modern era.

[sanjuancb]

Haz,

I too understand the hostility that is sometimes directed towards Muslims but the fact is that not all Muslims (in fact, very few) agree with terrorist tactics.

The Muslims of Arabia only actually constitute only 20% of the world population, and even there only a small margin supports such terrorism. The fact is, most Americans still know very little about Muslims. It's better than it once was, but even now people don't know the differences between Sunni and Shi'a. They know nothing about Sufi mysticism or Druze secrecy or the Yazidis or Muslims in India who blend Hinduism with Islam.

In fact, most Americans don't even know the five pillars of the Islamic faith. Most don't even know the true meaning of Jihad (it's "struggle" and is only expressed in terms of "holy war" in very rare cases). There are so many cultural differences and sects that we just tend to lump them all together. We are altogether terrified of the unknown. In fact, most Americans would be dumbfounded to know that a Protestant Christian created what we know as the Modern Arabic Language. Or that the founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine was in fact, an Orthodox Christian. In fact, Americans believe that the Taliban in Afghanistan represent mainstream Islam (they most certainly don't and they get away with it because the literacy rate is 11% and the people can't even read the Qur'an in the first place).

I'm a flag-wavin', gun-toting, bible-thumpin' Christian, but I'm also a student of Middle Eastern studies and the fact of the matter is that we are largely ignorant of what happens in the rest of the world.

There is a good documentary available on Youtube that goes over the perceptions of Arabs in MSM and film. It's called "Reel Bad Arabs" and it's a good one to watch:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewaox9UA6NE

[Hazcat]

SJ,

I am NOT questioning your patriotism.

BUT I have seen precious damn little of the Muslim community protesting these terrorist acts.  CAIR is the main mouth piece and they ARE terrorists!

[fightingquaker13]

Ya want to re-think that?  And PULEESE don't bring up the 12th century, we (Christians) have matured, Muslims have not.

Please site where radical Christians profess and pursue genocide in the modern era.

Its not the religion I'm referring to Haz, but the mindset. Look I try to be as open minded as the next guy. Hell I would bet money I'm one of the only guys here who has actually read the Koran (Penguin addition, required in an undergrad class). Having done that, I will "recite as much as I am able'. I do not like Islam Sam I Am. I wouldn't like it as an atheist, I wouldn't consider it as an agnostic, like I was in my twenties when I was looking for God, and I sure don't like it as a Christian. That said, a murdering terrorist is not made so much by his religion as his character. I think its easier to build a terrorist using the Koran rather than the Bible, but you still have to have the same materials to work with. These are a deep desire to be part of something bigger, a basic detachment from others, or alternatively a deep attachment that drives you toward vengance for real or perceived wrongs, and a black and white world view that lets you seek certainty, not faith, and bind you to either a religion or a secular ideology like communism. You take these elements and you get someone who sees the world as divided into good and evil, with no grey where most folks live. If you're not on board with them, you are a legitimate target, and if mistakes are made its all for the greater good.  I will say that Islam lends itself to this more than most religions, but the fact is, that a sociopath is a sociopath. Give them them the Koran rather than the Bible and you're more likely to have a body count, but the odds of a body count are pretty good either way. Nurture matters, but nature cannot be discounted.
FQ13

[sanjuancb]

Its not the religion I'm referring to Haz, but the mindset. Look I try to be as open minded as the next guy. Hell I would bet money I'm one of the only guys here who has actually read the Koran (Penguin addition, required in an undergrad class). Having done that, I will "recite as much as I am able'. I do not like Islam Sam I Am. I wouldn't like it as an atheist, I wouldn't consider it as an agnostic, like I was in my twenties when I was looking for God, and I sure don't like it as a Christian. That said, a murdering terrorist is not made so much by his religion as his character. I think its easier to build a terrorist using the Koran rather than the Bible, but you still have to have the same materials to work with. These are a deep desire to be part of something bigger, a basic detachment from others, or alternatively a deep attachment that drives you toward vengance for real or perceived wrongs, and a black and white world view that lets you seek certainty, not faith, and bind you to either a religion or a secular ideology like communism. You take these elements and you get someone who sees the world as divided into good and evil, with no grey where most folks live. If you're not on board with them, you are a legitimate target, and if mistakes are made its all for the greater good.  I will say that Islam lends itself to this more than most religions, but the fact is, that a sociopath is a sociopath. Give them them the Koran rather than the Bible and you're more likely to have a body count, but the odds of a body count are pretty good either way. Nurture matters, but nature cannot be discounted.
FQ13

Quaker how much are you willing to bet?   

I totally agree that any extremist is capable of doing harm---
40 years ago upstanding "Christians" were hanging, beating, killing and burning blacks in my beloved American south. It's all a matter of mindset...