S&W 627 in .38 SC

[alfsauve]

Been looking, casually, for a 627 in .38 Super. But they're expensive and rare. Unless you have big bucks and deep pockets to call SW Performance Center and have one custom made.

The goal is to have a shorter case so that it feeds smoother & quicker than the ungangly .357 with moon clips.

Duh.

The parent of the .357 Max is the .357 mag, which was begat by the .38 Special which was begat by ..... The .38 Short Colt.

The .38 Short Colt.brass is made by Starline and is quite capable of handling .38  Spl pressures. After a little research tonight I find this a common practice and possibly a better alternative to .38Super. The drawback is the long jump from case to barrel.   But then were not shooting bullseye.  So I ordered a few pieces of bras tonight to try out.

[ellis4538]

Very popular substitution for ICORE type shooting.  BE forum has a revo thread and is mostly comp shooters (USPSA and ICORE w/a little IDPA thrown in).

FWIW


Richard

PS:  Thinking about the above, I am not sure if they use the sc in .38 super or .38 spl. revos and it is too early for my search function to function properly!  LOL

[alfsauve]

Richard,

The .38 Super uses a 9mm bullet with is about 2mils smaller than a .357.  It'll work okay, just might not be as accurate.  I read postings from several shooters talking about how their Supers would keyhole a lot.

With .38SC you use the .357 bullet so it fits the barrel.   The negative here is the increased "jump" from case to throat.

I don't think you can do this in IDPA.   I believe the only substitutions are .38Spl in .357 guns and .44spl in .44mag guns.    Not sure they'd let you go down yet another step in history.  I may be wrong, but I have the impression that ESR, which allows moon clips, uses mainly .45ACP and SSR uses mainly .38spl.   I also think you're limited to 6 rounds in the cylinder which knocks the 627 out.

Haven't looked at the limitations in USPSA yet, but I know it's a 6 round limit there too.   Might be worth it thought in speedloaders, if allowed in revolver class.

 

[ellis4538]

I don't believe they make a 627 in 4" so it is not IDPA legal.  Yes, you are right about no sc in .38/.357 revos except maybe some local shoots.  You can use the 627 in USPSA but w/8 rds you are in open!!!  I haven't heard of anyone loading only 6 live rounds or 6 and 2 dummies in USPSA revo.  I don't believe the sc would work in the .38s but I didn't do a search in BE forum to make sure it doesn't or hasn't been tried.  They like to experiment over there.  You could use it w/sl's if they make them but you would not make up enough speed to get over the handicap of shooting minor because I don't believe there is anyway in h..l you could make major even if they would allow it which they wouldn't.  ESR revo is the domain of the .45 acp w/a few 610's thrown in because the 610 4" is not too common (wish I had one cause I have a s..t load of free .40 brass).  ICORE is where the sc shines because it is allowed, power factor is not a factor (I don't believe) and mooned it's just a tad faster to reload.  I have even read on BE that some guys are cutting down .38 spl brass.  Seems like a lot of work to me but they are fanatical sometimes! 

The .45 is the better way to go all around but to reload smooth the chambers have to be smoothed sometimes and if you want a shorter round the .45 GAP is the way to go but I'm not sure where it is legal.  Want one of those too!  LOL

Richard

[alfsauve]

Yep the 4.25" barrel limit in IDPA would prohibit the 627.

It's a gun for Bowling Pins, Shooting Steel and ICORE with the latter two requiring a much lower PF.

I haven't done a LOT of reading, but I thought it would be something fun to try out at a real low cost (brass).

Now here's the interesting thing about 38SC.  It actually was designed to shoot a bullet closer to .38 than to .36.  I think the spec is  around .379.  It used a heeled/rebated base. That is the base of the bullet (the part that goes inside the case) is smaller than the bore. (Also how .22 Rim Fires work.)  And guess what the base is about ....  wait for it ... .357.  That how this all works out.

BUT here's the really cool tangent to all of this I discovered while researching.   I didn't know before but SAAMI has all the specs listed in one really cool PDF file.  I may print a hard copy of this to put down by the reloading bench.

I'll start a new thread on this for posterity's sake.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

[Sponsor]

[alfsauve]

Got the brass.   Loaded some 124gr 9mm bullets and some 158gr .357s.

Not a fan of the 158grs.  The case is small and you have to seat the bullet out further than I'd like, not giving a lot of gripping surface.

But the 9mms rock.

First you use a .38spl resizing die then a 9mm expander and seater.  No need to make any adjustments!   Very cool.

Same case capacity as a 9mm so you use the same powder charge.   And I get just over 1050fps, just like in a semi-auto.  I figure that what's lost in the barrel cylinder gap is made up for in less friction due to the slightly smaller size bullet.

So what's it good for?   Loads so much easier, smoother and quicker with speedloaders and moonclips than the longer 38spl or .357mag.   Ejects very cleanly with no brass hung up between cylinder and the grip. 

Where can you use it other than for practice?   (Note I'm not complaining.  Each organization sets their rules and you play within those parameters.  Just pointing out what this ammo is good for.)

Not in IDPA which has an explicit list of ammo substitutions.  No cut down cases and only .38spl in .357mag, .44spl in .44mag, 9mm in .38super (which is not recommended by SAAMI as they are different shapes, but this one is only applicable to revolvers with moon clips so it probably works okay), and .40S&W in 10mm.

USPSA says 9x19mm is the minimum caliber.   I wonder if they'd allow 9x19R?

Shooting Steel you don't reload anyway.

Bowling pins, not enough power.

So all that's left is ICORE.   Which is where this sort of started anyway.  I've joined ICORE, but the nearest club is Augusta, GA which is 3 hours away.  Maybe that would be a fun weekend trip to shoot in one of their matches.

Here's a picture of my lineup.

On the left is a 9mm next to a .38 Short Colt loaded with 124gr 9mm bullet. (1,050fps)
Then there's the .38 Special w/ 158gr Copper Plated HP. (800fps)
The.357 Magnum w/ 158gr JHP (1,250fps when loaded with H110 and 1,000fps w/ Power Pistol)
.357 Maximum 158gr JHP (1750 fps)