The cops shooting vs hits percentages are improving!

[tombogan03884]

Now just to lay out the flip side of this:

The responding officers, at best, knew the perp had shot and killed someone.   They had no way of knowing it was a targeted shooting and for all they knew, he was about to start shooting more people, not just at them.    What may have been in the balance is how many people will he kill before he's stopped him later verses how many will we hit if we fire immediately.   

Maybe they did or didn't go through that thought process, but they took the later course.   9 innocents were injured, but we'll never know how many lives they might have saved.

Not taking sides, just presenting another view.

We know exactly how many lives were saved.
News reports say he only had 2 rounds left so the public would have been safer if the cops had just ducked and let him do as he pleased.
The things to remember in this case are that the AVERAGE level of fire arms training in large departments sucks.
NYC has something like 35,000 cops, they produced one Jim Cirrillo in 150 years of carrying guns.
The average armed citizen has some level of interest in shooting to begin with and uses his/her own money to gain some level of proficiency. The average armed citizen is focused on not having their life destroyed by injury, criminal charges, or civil suits.
The average big city cop on the other hand is more interested in his pension than in gun skills and does not worry over much since they have the PBA to shield them from most of the consequences a civilian would face.
You will see an increase in this sort of incident as political appointees continue to promote lower hiring standards in favor of "ethnic diversity, and continue to raid training funds to pay for cronyism and politically motivated worthless programs.

[Big Frank]

At least they don't get paid to shoot people like they do in Albuquerque. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us/payments-to-albuquerque-officers-involved-in-shootings-called-bounty-system.html?pagewanted=all Or do they?

[Magoo541]

I think Bloomberg needs to resign, not because of this incident just because he's a pompous ass 

[twyacht]

Here's a real test of what gun, what trigger, and what the results are with a mandated 12 lb. DAO (only) Sig or Glock.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/foghorn/nypds-choice-of-firearm-may-have-contributed-to-the-terrible-shooting/

12 lbs. !!!!!!!!!

One of my friends is a NYPD police officer, and when he comes to shooting competitions he always uses his duty gear. I think that’s fantastic and more police officers should do likewise, but it always puts him at a disadvantage compared to other shooters. And the reason for that is the NYPD’s requirement for a 12 pound trigger pull weight.

NYPD cops are given a choice. They can have a SIG P226, a Glock 19, or a Smith & Wesson wheelgun. But no matter what they choose, the triggers are modified to have a 12 pound pull for every shot fired.

So even with the P226, which was designed to be double action for the first round and single action for every round thereafter, the NYPD requires it to operate in “double action ONLY” mode. Not only that, they raise the trigger pull weight from the designed pull of 10 pounds to 12 pounds. Its the same story for the Glock. What used to be a factory-issue 5.5 pounds of pressure required to trip the trigger becomes a 12 pound monstrosity.

As anyone who has fired a double action handgun knows IMMEDIATELY once they touch that round off, getting an accurate shot with a heavy trigger is significantly more difficult than with a lighter one.

To illustrate this point, I went out to the local range to do some testing.

*****

Pics and more info at link.

12 lbs....!!!!!!

Not enough training.....

[Solus]

You know, I've been aware  of the NY Trigger from working with my Glocks for several years.

I always thought it was stupid, but never put it into this type of term.

New York City has requirements that force it's police to be significantly less accurate with their hand guns thus endangering themselves and citizen bystanders while making the criminal harder to hit.

[Sponsor]

[Magoo541]

New York City has requirements that force it's police to be significantly less accurate with their hand guns thus endangering themselves and citizen bystanders while making the criminal harder to hit.

All because of Negligent Discharges during Administrative gun handling that resulted in cops shooting themselves, furniture or others.  Too bad training cost so much 

If you are a LEO and your department doesn't afford you the opportunity to train with your sidearm (it appears in the article TW posted that you wouldn't do it on your own anyway) it is part of your duty, your responsibility to ensure public safety by being proficient with your firearms.

I am reminded of a story told on here some where were at an annual qualification an officers firearm malfunctioned and it was traced back to activities from the previous years qualification (IIRC he didn't load his revolver after qualifying). 

[DGF]

It is irrelevant. Even if they had to light a fuse to fire their weapon the error is in shooting at all when innocents are in the line of fire. It is a problem of protecting their own butt at the expense of the citizens. They fired because they were afraid.

[MikeBjerum]

Well we now have verification that law enforcement in our fair Twin Cities can hit "A" target.  A hostage situation in a local hotel, a hostage is sent into the hallway, and the cops kill him. 

Sounds like my warning to hostages when I describe my USPSA abilities when No Shoots are present.

[tombogan03884]

Got a link ?
I'm going to want the reference the next time some one tells me how the Cops are so highly trained .
Follow up would be good too.
 Bet they don't go through the crap George Zimmerman is experiencing.

[MikeBjerum]

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/168131816.html

Star Tribune has multiple stories on this now.  Typical of a lot of this it changes constantly, but once they admitted he was a hostage nothing has changed considering his be unarmed and fleeing the room.