For Tom..

[santahog]

Well, Tom, I suppose you could point to the God of Creation, or Creations God, as the Founders eluded to and professed.
The God of Israel, the Christ, claimed exclusivity for Himself. He, as I, am just passing it along. You didn't have to believe it, or like it, any more than I did. I do, because it makes sense, but I'm not at war with Him anymore. You are. (He does ask you to love Him, because He loved you first, but He's not gonna MAKE you, because that's not "love".) I'm not interested in the semantics games that you'll default to in the first round of response to this one. I don't gain anything in entertaining you. You don't need one thing or person for you to know that "God is", simply by our own limitations in light of all that is, and the laws that govern it.. You don't need me or Billy Graham to tell you "that".. You have access to the same Word that I've got under my arm over here in the bathroom. You can read. I could help you, if you were honest about it, but you're not.. The only way that you can be god in your own life is if God "isn't". In that light, you have a vested interest in anything you can say, do or ascribe to, to keep yourself on the throne of your own life. It's not complicated.. Unless you can demonstrate that you're not human, human nature applies to you as well as it does anybody else here.. Even admitting that much puts you at a disadvantage in the conversation though. You can't even admit that "Shit Happens" without being created by something outside itself, acting upon it, defining it, and putting limits on it's existence.
The thing about "Societal Decay" is that (absent God), man doesn't know the difference between shit and food, or that each has a distinct place in existence, and that one is preferable to the other for the benefit of individuals or society..
Your tactics are no different than the socialists and leftists that you rail against, in case you haven't noticed. They're a little dated, compared to current talking head debates on the alphabet soup shows, but still the same.. Every bit of what you say about God, Christians, (Jews) and their influence on society is word for word what was espoused, expounded upon and extolled by the the Communists and leftists of the 60s, all the way back (in our own age) to Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin.
As the historian that you claim to be, it amazes me that you don't hear it as it comes out of your own chest.. Thinking that I'm gonna get all ripped up by your bombast is laughable at this point though. It's only the Liberty that comes from a Christian worldview that allows you to believe, say and proselytize as you wish.. You don't recognize that either, even in light of the avowed enemies of the nation that we're all trying to save here..
Every word God says bears itself out in every facet of the human experience. That, in large part, is how I came to believe in the first place. "It makes sense". It doesn't need "me" to defend it. It stands all by itself.. It's unassailable by rage or contradictory reason. It's unimpeachable, no matter who you accuse or how you accuse it. It simply "is". Just like God Himself..
The thing that's hanging you up, (after pride) is that the vertical is incomprehensible in the horizontal dimension that you insist that you're safe and in charge in. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, just that you can't see it from where you are.

Just trying to help!!

Okay, knock yourself out..
I'll think of Shirley MacLaine as she stands on the coast, yelling towards the sky with her fist in the air, saying "I am god!!! I am god!!!"
Good luck with that..
(And God bless, truly!!)

[oldkat69]

Look at it this way, You can not secure the morality of a nation if you do not have a nation to moralize to.
As it stands now the Christian faction of the conservative movement is more hindrance than help because they keep squawking about irrelevant special interest crap like abortion while ignoring things like the economy, immigration, defense, and expanding Govt that could actually WIN elections.

   The founding fathers did ignore "irrelevant special interest crap" like SLAVERY.  That turned out well 80 years later.

What Tom said Tom is correct in that elections must be won.  Staying home has consequences too.

[MikeBjerum]

I have to disagree with the statement that it makes the Christians no better than the Taliban.

The Christians haven't killed any disbelievers....lately.

+1

[tombogan03884]

1 -  To many Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker's have turned the term "Christian" into a punch line, Give your money to God, you can make the check out to me.
2 - You alienate everyone else who might support your policies.
Ever wonder why so many Jews vote for anti Israel liberals instead of pro Israel conservatives ?
It's because of your narrow minded focus on "Christian values", lose that and you'd be surprised how many Jews, Pagans, and others would vote for your candidate.
The issues that actually gain peoples attention have no faith, they are based on common sense and the historical record of what has and hasn't worked.
3 - Christians constantly bring up pointless crap like abortion as "issues".
Wake up, the SCOTUS ruled 40 years ago, you lost.
If you wanted real change, instead of a reason to bitch about how righteous you are and how terrible everyone else is you would do the same as the liberals.
You would shut up about those things and focus on winning elections . Then you would be in a change the makeup of SCOTUS and revisit the issue at a later date when you have a chance of doing more than boring everyone else .
But you don't because being self righteous is more important than winning.

Speaking of abortion, the idea of any medical procedure "on demand" is idiotic in itself .
Abortion however is handy for our side, the inherent contradiction in supporting abortion while opposing capital punishment, (in effect saying that killing innocent babies is good, while killing convicted murderers and rapists is bad. ) makes it easier to illustrate the stupidity of liberal philosophy.
Considering all the other forms of birth control available any one so irresponsible that they must resort to this "last resort" method shows they would probably be a lousy parent anyway, they should get the abortion and a sterilization thrown in for free to prevent repeats.
I have to say however that as a pure thought exercise I find it curious that we take more care in the breeding of our pets than in the breeding of our offspring.

[santahog]

...

Speaking of abortion, the idea of any medical procedure "on demand" is idiotic in itself .
Abortion however is handy for our side, the inherent contradiction in supporting abortion while opposing capital punishment, (in effect saying that killing innocent babies is good, while killing convicted murderers and rapists is bad. ) makes it easier to illustrate the stupidity of liberal philosophy.
Considering all the other forms of birth control available any one so irresponsible that they must resort to this "last resort" method shows they would probably be a lousy parent anyway, they should get the abortion and a sterilization thrown in for free to prevent repeats.
I have to say however that as a pure thought exercise I find it curious that we take more care in the breeding of our pets than in the breeding of our offspring.

Funny, I seem to recall hearing about a Margaret Sanger fielding the same sort of idea.. 
As for the rest of it, keep it.. You and Tammy Faye deserve each other.. 

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Funny, I seem to recall hearing about a Margaret Sanger fielding the same sort of idea.. 
As for the rest of it, keep it.. You and Tammy Faye deserve each other.. 

The racist Margaret Sanger wasn't the only one, Adolph Hitler and Oliver Wendall Holmes both thought it was a great idea as well.
As for Tammy Faye, I haven't claimed to be a Christian in 30 years .
I don't respect people who tell me they are Christians, I respect people who do the best the can with the situation they are in.