Question for the community, reloaded ammo

[Rastus]

You may want to consider acquiring some used commercial equipment.  Gunbroker would be a place to peruse.  I remember in the great ammo drought a couple of years back people in my area buying commercial equipment and making a go at commercial reloading but ultimately getting out of the reloading business after a while. 

My thought is that there are quite a few units collecting dust nowadays and you can get into the business in a low cost way if you can wait a while during an equipment search.  The guys I know who tried reloading did OK for 4-6 months but had personnel and marketing problems.  They also missed profit projections because they bought into the business before components were at the top of the price cycle not to mention supply issues.  You already know about costs, personnel and you are working on market identification so I have no doubt your business plan is better than theirs.

I just reached out on LinkedIn to see if they still had their equipment or if they knew someone who had commercial equipment for sale.  Just in case you are interested.

I don't know, but I suspect you could buy some late model lightly used equipment for 30 cents on a dollar.  That would greatly improve your payout and lessen your risk dollars.

I think cowboy action supply may be your bread and butter market.  Competition like 3 gun or steel challenge could provide a nice secondary market along with tactical training in your region. 

Just my 2 cents....

[crusader rabbit]

Marketing and perception (maybe the same thing) are going to be among the most vital aspects of your potential new business.  Here's a quick story to illustrate... In Western Florida, we had a guy doing "professional" reloads on a fairly grand level.  He provided all the practice ammo for the local cop shops and cop ranges, so he did a huge amount of 9mm, .40 S&W and .223 ammo.  He did .38 Spec., and .357, too as well as .44 Mag and various other calibers.  His prices were reasonable and between the police and regular civilian shooters who bought his product, he sold about as much as he could produce.  Until one of his .223 loads blew the bottom out of somebody's AR.

Now, maybe it wasn't the fault of the load.  Maybe the AR was faulty.  Either way, our local guy denied any responsibility and ignored requests for an impartial examination of the weapon a nd the remaining ammo.

When this word spread around, cop shops cancelled their contracts.  Local gun shops refused to sell his re-mans.  Most shooters (myself included) refused to buy/use his ammo because even if it wasn't his fault or the fault of his ammo, the fact that he didn't step up gave us cause for pause.  And we just didn't trust him.  He has now started a "gun smith" aspect to his business because re-manufacture was suddenly rather less profitable.

Almost immediately, another re-manufacturer stepped into the void.  Company called Hyperion set up shop in our county after moving in from a neighboring county.  I'm not terribly happy with them because it's almost impossible to get any sort of a response from them to questions I might have.  And special orders are not high on their agenda.  For example, if I want a heavier bullet for my FMJ 9mm practice rounds so they approximate the hollow point rounds I carry every day, I'm out of luck.  So, I now purchase on line or at one of the gun shops I frequent.

Since the start of the current Administration in Washington D.C., ammo has been increasingly easier to get.  More companies are making and shipping new stuff and the prices have been dropping.  All those jerks who bought and hoarded .22 LR and were selling it at onerous prices are crying in their beer since I can buy it from WalMart for 3-cents a round and sometimes less.  9mm prices are dropping. .223 prices are dropping.  Even hunting rounds are coming down in price due to over-supply and reduced demand since no one fears the Feds are going to shut down production.

So, Tab, I would sound a couple of cautionary notes:  1. When new ammo has yet to find its actual bottom price, re-manufactured might not provide enough margin to be viable;  and 2. When it's unlikely that government regulation will be reduced from what we have under Trump, and the only real possibility is heavier regulation under a future Dummycrap Administration, is it wise to bet on the re-manufacturing business?

Tab, I don't know if you can afford the fairly hefty start-up costs and then write them off as a "hobby," but unless you have a great stash of dough to risk, I'd maybe give this some additional thought.

FWIW

Crusader Rabbit

[Rastus]

Wabbit is good, wabbit is wise....  That was in a movie, wasn't it? 

Regardless, my buddy got back with me and he has no equipment.  They were using a Dillon 1050 but to run really they needed primed demilled brass.  The Dillon isn't a true auto loader ammo machine.  He did recommend a Camdex over the Dillon.....

[TAB]

Camdex is what I have been looking at.  I looked at a few other manufactor stuff, but Camdex seemed too have best case prep set ups.  Like in 45 acp  they can auto detect  small pistol primer cases and kick them out, with out a stoppage.  Most others either didn't have, was a very expensive option or stopped the entire machine.  I also like the fact that they pressurized case at one station too check for splits.

I constantly shop financing.  Currently  I can get 100k for 3 years at 5 7/8%   which makes the payment just over 3k a month( 1st rule of business is use some one else's money)  if I can make just $2/ box of 50 that's 75k rounds a month to pay for the machine.    What is really killing it for me is the cost of the damn box and plastic tray. If I order 100k of them they are almost $1.40 each.  Everything else I priced out in comm'l quantity  was at or slightly  bellow what I assumed cost would be. The box kind of blew me away.  Used 30 cal ammo cans were actually cheaper then boxes by half.  A 30 cal can will hold 770 45acps.  It's just they are bulky so storing them is an issue.

Tmi have run pretty much all the numbers is can think of even if prices for components  go + or - 35%.   The only thing I can not figure out is what the market is willing too pay for reloads.

As too the issue of reloads "shady" rep.   I delt with that in contracting all the time.  Things I am already planing to help fight that is on the packaging, list my 06 ffl  number, city, where produced( don't want too give a physical address for security concerns)  a web link to my web site where regular independent  testing reports are available for veiw/ down load.  Load data from my personal fire arms.( with the 45 acp  for example  cronos  for a gov model, commander )lots of places use test barrels.  In other words I want too be as transparent as possible.  I already promptly return phone calls and emails.   

What concerns me the most is I have too much demand.   I don't want too be the guy with 50+ employees again, I want no more then 3. A skilled loader, a helper and an office manger/ phone , plus me.  I mean that's worse case ideally I would just want an assistant.


After the turn over of my construction company on August 31st.  I would never have too work again.   I know me I can not do that, but I don't have enough to where I can fund say a contracting business that does accessablity  for disabled vets at little too no cost.  I have already  handed over the reigns of a non profit I co founded, where now I am just a voting board member.  I am very proud to say that said none profit is 100% staffed by volunteers and always has been.  I will resign from the board the second that changes.  It did so well it bought it's own office complex and runs exclusively off the income that generates + donations.

I am all past that.  I am really looking at getting into small scale manufacturing of  niche products.    Sadly out side of reloads all of the niche products I have ex with/ enjoy developing/ building reloads are the only ones that would be me not dealing with the  very wealthy( read that as pita)  which I would rather. It do.  It's also the only one that would require less then 250k start up costs.

I don't want too be that 100 hour a week guy any more.

[MikeBjerum]

TAB, you touched on reloads having a "shady rep." again.  Here is where marketing comes in:

Are you reloading?  Are you manufacturing ammunition?  Are you manufacturing specialty ammunition?

What is reloading?  Reloading is using recycled brass, and manufacturing new ammunition.

Look at American Eagle.  Do you see them pushing that they are reloads?  After you notice different brass in the same box you can research and find that they use recycled brass, but that is not their marketing focus. 

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

Mike definitely has a point.  Marketing will be the key.  I think all anyone has to do is to look at Black Hills....

[Big Frank]

I think what you're talking about is referred to as re-manufactured ammo. If you roll your own at home they're reloads, but doing it pro-style to sell I think they're called re-manufactured. As for how low the cost would need to be or how great the savings would need to be, depending on how you look at things, that's hard to say. If you can't guarantee the brass has only been fired once I wouldn't be very interested at all. I'm assuming you have a source in mind already, maybe a military or LEO range that only uses new ammo. A commercial range that doesn't allow reloads could be a possible source of brass, but it would be a mixed bag instead of thousands of one caliber.

One market that ammo must be really selling good for is long range rifle, but .224 Valkyrie, 6mm and 6.5 Creedmoor, , etc. empty brass isn't exactly littering the ground waiting to be picked up. If you're going into business you have to find your niche. If you want to avoid the expense of buying new brass that wouldn't be it, but you may want to look into the price and demand numbers there. If you figure out what people want and give them a good product at a good price your reputation will grow. If you build it, they will come. Then your only worry will be hiring someone to run the second machine.

[les snyder]

don't know the price of a Camdex but you might take a look at the MarkVII... sensors up the wazoo

https://www.markvii-loading.com/loading-presses/101-1023.html

[TAB]

The the Camdex are about 38k.   I did look at the mark7, the base model is like $5500. Once optioned out it's 13.5k.   Still have a few operations you have to do on another machine/ manually  compared to the Camdex. (7 station  vs 11)   It's also about 50% slower. 

I wish I could say I have moved forward on this endeavor,  I got as far as to get financing  ready to go should I  pull the trigger on it.