Where's the line?

[pioneer]

On this and other forums which I subscribe to, several posters comment that we armed, patriotic; freedom loving Americans will resist tyranny, with arms if necessary.  That often starts me to wondering; just how far will we let it go?  Where is our Line In The Sand?  What actions of government will push our buttons?  Taxes?  Gun control and confiscation?  Socialism, or the nationalizing of private industry, such as with banks and auto maker bail-outs?  Loss of individual freedoms in the name of "public safety?"  GPS units on our cars to calculate how much money we owe the government to drive on public roads and highways?  Proliferation of surveillance cameras in public and private places?  Big Brother monitoring of our private lives and Internet usage?  Surveillance and monitoring of Gun Forums?  I would not be surprised to learn that some government "cyber crimes unit" is already doing just that. 

Will we wait for a partisan leader to come forward to organize a resistance movement, or act independently?  By which method do you think we would be more successful?  The FBI has demonstrated an ability to infiltrate "extremist" groups, so who can you trust?  Ask Randy Weaver, or the Branch Davidians.  If a modern-day Patrick Henry were to come forth and make a plea to rally round the flag, would you go, or write him or her off as "some kind of nut" as the media tells you to do?  Would you not only leave your home, your family and your job in order to take up arms against the government, but also cut off all communication with them?  Are you willing to live in primitive conditions outdoors, with no sanitary facilities and with little, or no shelter, food and water? 

Would the US armed forces fire on American citizens?  How about the National Guard, our neighbors?  Would they fire on fellow citizens, or come over to the patriot's side?  What kind of opposition can such a group, armed with personal firearms expect?  Has anyone here seen a Bradley Fighting Vehicle in action?  How about a close air support gun ship, AC-130, or A-10 used in close air support?  Artillery?  FLIR capabilities on unmanned drone aircraft?  Where would we hide?  How effective will your AR-15 be against those?  How would we sustain an army of partisan fighters?  Food, clothing, medical care? 

The French, Italians, Poles, Filipinos and some Jewish groups and others during WW2, put up quite a fight.  They recognized the danger they faced and fought bravely for freedom.  How long would the average American these days be willing to continue fighting against the military forces of the US and /or UN?  Until it became inconvenient, or until it cut into the baseball season?  Would there be a high rate of desertion as there was in the late 1770's?  Would the public support such a movement?  Only about 1/3 of the Colonials supported the American Revolution.  It’s one thing to talk tough and cavalierly about going to war when no one is shooting at you.  It is quite another to do it for real. facing a high probability of death. 

I have no idea where my personal "line in the sand" is.  I am by no means advocating anything, but just wanted to offer up some food for thought.  In 1965 I swore an oath not to take up arms against my country, but I also swore to defend the "Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic."  A foreign invasion, or attack where the Armed Forces would need the support of the Militia, you betcha.  No question.  Sign me up. 

What got me started thinking about this stuff were some books I've recently read;  Swan Song;  Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse; and Lucifer's Hammer.   All about disasters, nuclear, natural and economic, and their aftermath including the collapse of our national government.  What we like to call SHTF scenarios. 

[pops1911]

All of us must consider these things & make up our own minds - soon! And of course, a public forum is not the place to discuss either.....

I do think the line is somewhere behind us at this point. It is time & definitely no later than Jan 20th depending on what happens prior to that (probably nothing - no cajones anywhere in elected officials).

[TSB]

In 1965 I swore an oath not to take up arms against my country, but I also swore to defend the "Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic." 

I swore the identical oath about ten years later, three times as a matter of fact!  Things would have to go to hell in a handbasket for me to take up arms against that same government today.  These times will pass, for better or worse and the proper tools to fight the fight are education and vigilance to secure the "Blessings of Liberty" to ourselves and our country...

[tombogan03884]

Taking up arms against an administration in defense of the Constitution is not the same as trying to overthrow the government.
In the first case you are forcing office holders to go by the rules laid down by the Founding Fathers, exercising the basic intent of the Second amendment, in the second case you are trying to fundamentally  change the government out side constitutional methods. The democrats are overthrowing the government, armed citizens would in effect be restoring order.

[Pathfinder]

I swore the identical oath about ten years later, three times as a matter of fact!  Things would have to go to hell in a handbasket for me to take up arms against that same government today.  These times will pass, for better or worse and the proper tools to fight the fight are education and vigilance to secure the "Blessings of Liberty" to ourselves and our country...

I have heard isolated reports over the years of oaths to commanders or the US Governments instead of the Constitution. Do any of my brethren (and the few sisters) on this site know personally of any such oaths anywhere in the US military?

[Sponsor]

[twyacht]

The political climate unfortunately won't favor a "New Minuteman". Look at the outcry from the MSM and other UN types crying over Israel's disproportionate air assaults on Hamas.

If a little dog in your house bit you in the ankle everytime you walked by, over and over an over, eventually you grab a 9 iron and "correct" the problem.

Our constitutional rights are being "bitten away" piece by piece, a little at a time, and now it will come down to "When" to grab the 9 iron.

Although I agree, a public forum is not the best place to discuss it.

"A nation which does not remember what it was yesterday does not know where it is today." Robert E. Lee

"Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again."
Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President of the United States

[tombogan03884]

While I agree that specifics of a persons preparation or planning for "resistance to tyranny " scenario's should not be discussed on public forums. I think that public discussion of potential triggers, impediments, and consequences, would be helpful in two ways, it would help impress those in "authority" that  they exist by the consent of the governed even in the 21st century, and would help weed out some of the gun store Rambo's.
My Dad used to know this guy who was always talking about "when the next war comes I'm prepared." The old Man shut him down by asking what about the last one ? (Vietnam, this guy was in the Coast Guard RESERVE)

[Rastus]

While I agree that specifics of a persons preparation or planning for "resistance to tyranny " scenario's should not be discussed on public forums. I think that public discussion of potential triggers, impediments, and consequences, would be helpful in two ways, it would help impress those in "authority" that  they exist by the consent of the governed even in the 21st century, and would help weed out some of the gun store Rambo's...........

Good points Tom.  In any case, I think the fact that I have sold off most of my guns in advance of a freeze on personal transfers and eventual confiscation so the chump can take a loss is a good strategy.  If/when they knock on my door the "Rambo's" who purchased from me thinking that was going to save their bacon so that I could take it on the chin will find out differently.  When "they" knock on the door, if ever, I will cooperate and be a good citizen.  No need to take a gun butt in the teeth until the sheep are fed up, eh?  Why go down in flames all alone ahead of the pack?

Like MB said we all need to have a stake in the loss to make it, in my words, "an up front and personal loss".

[2HOW]

These are sad words from good men. All I can say is "want some, get some" read about it in the morning paper. Knock and I will answer. But not the answer they want.