Author Topic: A Thousand Words  (Read 10339 times)

Timothy

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2009, 08:30:45 PM »
I'm just crazy. Argue with Franklin and Jefferson instead.
FQ13

OK....now that I've had a couple hours to review history, investigate the philosophy of Classic Liberalism, read a bit of 150 year old excerpts from Mill, Locke and Smiths works, I hereby retract the "molten crazy" statement.  I apologize!

However, knowing the TRUE definition of Classic Liberalism vexes me even more when vetted against your decision to vote for Obama!  He stands for NONE of that polical philosophy.  He believes in big government, less liberty, less individualism, more taxation, distribution of wealth, et al.....Can we agree, at least in theory, that "liberalism" as defined by your mentors no longer exists in modern politics?  It appears since Rooseveldt to have morphed into the vile left wing radical poop that exists today, now, in our lifetimes!

I've read extensively the Constitution and the Declaration of Indendence and some of the Federalists papers but certainly can further my knowledge of the history of all of those documents.  I keep a pocket version of the Constitution at home and at work, I don't know why anymore, it started a long time ago.

Maybe we can agree to disagree without my being so disagreeable....I'll try...

fightingquaker13

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2009, 08:37:07 PM »
OK....now that I've had a couple hours to review history, investigate the philosophy of Classic Liberalism, read a bit of 150 year old excerpts from Mill, Locke and Smiths works, I hereby retract the "molten crazy" statement.  I apologize!

However, knowing the TRUE definition of Classic Liberalism vexes me even more when vetted against your decision to vote for Obama!  He stands for NONE of that polical philosophy.  He believes in big government, less liberty, less individualism, more taxation, distribution of wealth, et al.....Can we agree, at least in theory, that "liberalism" as defined by your mentors no longer exists in modern politics?  It appears since Rooseveldt to have morphed into the vile left wing radical poop that exists today, now, in our lifetimes!

I've read extensively the Constitution and the Declaration of Indendence and some of the Federalists papers but certainly can further my knowledge of the history of all of those documents.  I keep a pocket version of the Constitution at home and at work, I don't know why anymore, it started a long time ago.

Maybe we can agree to disagree without my being so disagreeable....I'll try...
No apology is ever necessary here. Its all with in the family. I'm glad you checked those guys out they really are worth a read (mill especially, its a quick read that I am very grateful for having had assigned to me once). As far as CL being dead, you are on the money, which is why I get so frustrated at election time as I rarely find something to vote for rather than against. I also apologize if I came over a bit (to quote Tom) bitchy in my post. Peace.
FQ13

brosometal

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2009, 10:16:56 PM »
FQ13: a man of contradictions ;D  Quakers fighting?  Have you been watching too much Band of Brothers? (Not possible)  I would have to place my ideals in the Libertarian camp as well.  As an evil fundamentalist, I believe in Truth.  It doesn't need the laws of man to exist.  As a point of fact, that is where our rights are derived:  "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

We can argue abortion 'till we are both blue in the face, but until someone can point precisely to when life begins, I will choose to err on the side of life (as do increasingly more Americans: http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx)  But I digress.

I live in a very liberal town and would have very few folks to hang out with if I wasn't a tolerant man.  That is why I choose to argue principles as apposed to issues.  Most just spout issues to fit into the mainstream so as to not cause any waves.  Your buddy (not mine) Charlie Crist would fit into that category.  I voted for him the first time.  He is a nice person, affable, however, he's short on principle.  Most refer to it a populist.  One has to ask, why would a person with presidential aspirations take a step down to senator.  I'm not sure, but principles isn't one of them.  He's also jumped on the Global Warming/Climate Change bandwangon (not only short on principle, but on the science as well).  If you can't guess, I won't be pulling the Crist lever in the primary. 

Whoa! I got off on a bit of a rant there.  To sum up my principles, I default to freedom (Libertarian).  That is rare in a politician these days.  Somewhere along the evolution of our Republic the elected class thinks it has to address any problem with more laws:  "See, we're working hard for your here in (fill in the blank)." 

You mentioned, "Secondly on the economic front, they have gotten too doctrinaire about taxes and the market and failed to regulate."  Both the red spots do not "default to freedom".  Taxes and regulations are both tools that are used to destroy freedom as Commissar Obama is illustrating with his dearth of experience, but wealth of liberal (anti-freedom) principles.

We could get into a long and winding thread that covers several political philosophies, but I believe most here will default to freedom.  So get in where you fit in and I'm happy you're a "gun nut". 
The person who has nothing for which his is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
- J.S. Mill

fightingquaker13

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2009, 10:47:57 PM »
FQ13: a man of contradictions ;D  Quakers fighting?  Have you been watching too much Band of Brothers? (Not possible) 
I agree on your assesment of Crist, I simply like the fact that he seems competant, a too rare trait in Florida pols as you well know. As far as the fighting quaker name, it used to be the name of the football team at Earlham College in Indiana where I taught for awhile. It was a fine Quaker school, very liberal as you might imagine, but very Christian too, hell the socialist club began its meetings with silent prayer. Anyway, the team, now known as The Quake, as in quaking with fear because if they won 4 games it was a good year, used to be the Fighting Quakers. The board, in a fit of theological correctness decided that that wouldn't do, hence The Quake. The students though, were not amused and the team cheer became:
Quakers Fight!
Quakers Fight!
Kill, Quakers, Kill!
It didn't seem to help the team, but it amused the hell out me. ;D
FQ13

Timothy

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2009, 10:55:08 PM »
So you didn't attend Northwestern University,  Home of the Fighting Quakers?

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #45 on: Today at 08:44:02 PM »

fightingquaker13

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2009, 11:03:21 PM »
So you didn't attend Northwestern University,  Home of the Fighting Quakers?
Didn't realize that was their name. The only time I went to NW was for a conference. Apparently, there is some day in April, where folks run naked around the campus for a race (why I don't know) however, we were passing a girls dorm when about fifty very atractive coeds wearing track shoes and a smile came piling out, so, my view of the place is positive. ;D
FQ13

Pathfinder

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2009, 07:38:06 AM »
So you didn't attend Northwestern University,  Home of the Fighting Quakers?

Northwestern's logo is the Wildcats. I used to live less than 2 miles from them in Evanston. Don't know where the Quaker thing came from. Or the naked race - another Northwestern perchance? Or Northeastern maybe?

The turn of this thread reminded me of a bumper sticker I saw on a car yesterday - along with the bho sticker, he had one saying Jesus was a LIBERAL - printed just like that. He was driving off, else I would have collared him to remind him that Jesus was - in today's uses of the terms - right wing, a fundamentalist. He called the priests and their followers hypocrites for pretending to obey the law, but then allow all sorts of mis-deeds against the law when it was in their favor. He demanded a return to truth and adherence to the law, not a broad and baseless re-interpretation of the law.

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do this to others and I require the same from them"

J.B. Books

Timothy

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2009, 07:47:46 AM »
Northwestern's logo is the Wildcats. I used to live less than 2 miles from them in Evanston. Don't know where the Quaker thing came from. Or the naked race - another Northwestern perchance? Or Northeastern maybe?

The NU has an intermeral sports program called the Fighting Quakers.  The University mascot is a Wildcat as my high school used the Wildcat and NU fight song as well...  NU Big Ten conference teams are the Wildcats....

brosometal

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Re: A Thousand Words
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2009, 09:55:56 AM »
...hence The Quake. The students though, were not amused and the team cheer became:
Quakers Fight!
Quakers Fight!
Kill, Quakers, Kill!
It didn't seem to help the team, but it amused the hell out me. ;D
FQ13

That would have me rolling as well.  Funny stuff.
The person who has nothing for which his is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
- J.S. Mill

 

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