Marketing

[MikeBjerum]

Can you tell I'm having a slow week?  Going to sit until the snow starts, and then try to get in 1500 miles in bad weather.

Now to the point:

How would you feel if you were a part of Ruger, especially a company officer or marketing director, and you watched Gun Talk this week?

"The Ruger American Rifle is a pretty good rifle for the price."

I don't want "a pretty good rifle" or a rifle based on price.  I want the best gun I can buy, and I will save if I need to.  There are the old standards, like the Remington 700.  There are also the Savage line that is flat out accurate and durable.  Price on the Savage is a bonus!  When I take my Savages to the range I don't need to hang my head and say "it's all I can afford" or "I will give up that little bit of accuracy for the money I saved."  I will put my Savages, straight out of the box, up against ANY out of the box rifle.

Sorry, but Ruger needs to work on their image to regain confidence after letting these media clowns present their "newest and greatest" as a second rate gun.  Or, maybe they need to admit it is time to go back and try again at designing an accurate gun.  I don't know which it is, but the rifle market isn't in need of a "pretty good rifle for the price."

[Timothy]

FYI - They start about $500...and up.

I wish I still had my old Savage 30-30...

[billt]

There are also the Savage line that is flat out accurate and durable.  Price on the Savage is a bonus!  When I take my Savages to the range I don't need to hang my head and say "it's all I can afford" or "I will give up that little bit of accuracy for the money I saved."  I will put my Savages, straight out of the box, up against ANY out of the box rifle.

I agree completely. I will put my 3 Savage bolt actions against ANY custom rifle as far as accuracy. Savage delivers unquestionable accuracy. And this is even more apparent if you are a handloader, and take the time to experiment with different loads. It won't take long before you hit the sweet spot, and find one that will produce all but unbelievable accuracy in most any Savage. I have to say this isn't so with Ruger on a gun to gun basis. Many Ruger rifles are hopelessly inaccurate. I know because I own more than my fair share of them.

[Solus]

I agree completely. I will put my 3 Savage bolt actions against ANY custom rifle as far as accuracy. Savage delivers unquestionable accuracy. And this is even more apparent if you are a handloader, and take the time to experiment with different loads. It won't take long before you hit the sweet spot, and find one that will produce all but unbelievable accuracy in most any Savage. I have to say this isn't so with Ruger on a gun to gun basis. Many Ruger rifles are hopelessly inaccurate. I know because I own more than my fair share of them.

I know it is not what they do, but think what an AR 15 or AR 10 from Savage might be....

[billt]

In a Savage bolt action, the key to it's uncommon accuracy is in the barrel nut system they incorporate with all of them. The Accutrigger is also a big help in allowing the shooter to place his rounds as accurately as possible. Those 2 engineering concepts would not lend themselves to the AR platform because of their design. That being said, I'm sure a Savage AR in most any caliber would be as accurate as any currently on the market. The only exception would be the Les Baer line of Varminter's, which are substantially more expensive, ($1,500 to $2,000 range).

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

In a Savage bolt action, the key to it's uncommon accuracy is in the barrel nut system they incorporate with all of them. The Accutrigger is also a big help in allowing the shooter to place his rounds as accurately as possible. Those 2 engineering concepts would not lend themselves to the AR platform because of their design. That being said, I'm sure a Savage AR in most any caliber would be as accurate as any currently on the market. The only exception would be the Les Baer line of Varminter's, which are substantially more expensive, ($1,500 to $2,000 range).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All of this is true...especially the red letter edition.
The secret to their accuracy is the headspacing, which is set to each specific rifle via the barrel nut system mentioned above. This system also allows for user friendly barrel swaps relatively inexpensively.

Headspace
Another critical point in a rifle is headspace. That’s the fit of the cartridge in the chamber. Excessive headspace (when the bolt doesn’t close flush against the base of the cartridge case) is both dangerous and is death to accuracy. Too little headspace can generate high pressures (dangerous) and functionality problems. Most factories simply chamber a barrel, then fit it a predetermined distance into a pre-threaded action. The fitter then selects a bolt, uses minimum and maximum headspace gauges, and if the fit is “somewhere between” the action is considered good to go.

So, unless by chance every part just happens to be at exactly the right measurement for a perfect fit, they are never “perfect” and to a certain degree, there is always a bit of compromise. That’s yet another reason some production rifles shoot better than others.

At Savage, they use a combination of precision machining and custom fitting to keep headspace at exactly minimum for every rifle. When the barrel is mated to an action, the fitter uses a “minimum” headspace gauge, seating the barrel against the bolt face perfectly. Then they torque the barrel “nut” down tight, assuring what is essentially a custom-fitted headspace on that particular rifle. So each rifle is set to the perfect specs for that particular action and barrel combination. It’s not magic; it’s simply good engineering — and a talented technician doing the final fitting.


http://gunsmagazine.com/savage-arms-accuracy-equation/

[alfsauve]

  Or, maybe they need to admit it is time to go back and try again at designing an accurate gun.

They've been successful when they've put their mind to it.  The 10/22 couldn't hit the side of a barn, if you were inside.  But then somebody wised up and turned out the Varmint model.  With the right ammo it shoots one hole groups, one hole as in .22 sized, all day.  But why don't they make that the "standard" model?  Instead they keep selling the barrel banded spray and pray model.  Of course, we might ask why people keep buying the less accurate model.   So I guess as long as people buy it Ruger will keep making it.    Mini-14 has been the same way.   

Yeah, I loved the Savages I owned.  In reviewing target pictures recently I wonder why I sold my Savage.  Dumb.  Dumb.
 

[billt]

They've been successful when they've put their mind to it.  The 10/22 couldn't hit the side of a barn, if you were inside.  But then somebody wised up and turned out the Varmint model.  With the right ammo it shoots one hole groups, one hole as in .22 sized, all day.  But why don't they make that the "standard" model?  Instead they keep selling the barrel banded spray and pray model.  Of course, we might ask why people keep buying the less accurate model.   So I guess as long as people buy it Ruger will keep making it.    Mini-14 has been the same way.

I have one Ruger 10/22, and 3 Marlin Model 60's. The Marlin is a much more accurate rifle. All 3 of my Mini 14's are the newer "accurized" models that were supposedly made after the entire line was retooled. It made no difference. My AK-47's are all more accurate. That is assuming you want to use the words "accurate" and "AK-47" in the same sentence.

[PegLeg45]

I have one Ruger 10/22, and 3 Marlin Model 60's. The Marlin is a much more accurate rifle. All 3 of my Mini 14's are the newer "accurized" models that were supposedly made after the entire line was retooled. It made no difference. My AK-47's are all more accurate. That is assuming you want to use the words "accurate" and "AK-47" in the same sentence.

The only factory 22 rifle I've seen that was more accurate than my Marlin 60 is my Nylon 66.

I bought my younger son a new SS 10/22 his senior year of HS and it cost around $225...... I bought myself a Mod 60 Marlin at a pawn shop (used, but in the box and didn't show any signs it had been shot) for $70....and the Marlin will shoot way better than the Ruger. He still has the Ruger, but he also went out and found a nice SS Mod 60, and a blued one as well, and still came out cheaper than the cost of making the Ruger more accurate.

Mod 60's are cheap down south..... I guess the Ruger has the "advantage" with the stick magazine versus the tube magazine, so that's what most folks want so they trade grandpa or dad's Marlins in to get the Rugers.

[billt]

I really like a tubular magazine on a .22. I would never trade or sell any of my Model 60's. I love the thick heavy barrel Marlin uses on them. I believe that really helps with the accuracy. The gun really handles nicely as well. All of mine function well with most any type of LR ammo, and are accurate doing so. Hard to ask for more. I think Ruger has the edge for people who want to customize their rifles. They are a lot of aftermarket accessories for them. I've never had any reason to change anything on my Model 60's. I just load and shoot them.