Bush 2012

[tombogan03884]

You boys aren't from the South, where blood is a damn sight thicker than water. The thing is, over the forty thousand or so years of human history, ideology, politics and theology have changed. Family obligations, however have remained the same (or at least recognizably similar). Me, I believe this is Natural Law. To, loving the irony, quote that Jersey Boy Springsteen. "A man turns his back on his family and he just ain't no good". I wouldn't trust him, wouldn't hire him, and damn sure wouldn't vote him dog catcher. Self righteous pharisees are a dime a dozen. Good dads, are far too rare.
FQ13

Since civilization has only existed or 6,000 years this is a good opportunity for me to say that your liberal tendency to make up facts is why I have no respect for you or your opinions and would ignore your posts if that option were provided.

[fightingquaker13]

Since civilization has only existed or 6,000 years this is a good opportunity for me to say that your liberal tendency to make up facts is why I have no respect for you or your opinions and would ignore your posts if that option were provided.

I said history Tom, not civilization. Hell, digs put the aborigines in Australia earlier than that. The evidence of what we would recognize as family groups is there in Europe, Ausrtalia, Africa and Asia. Its not me that needs the history lesson here. If I hadn't lost my job, I'd buy you a subscription to The National Geographic or Nature. At least you'd read them once a day.
FQ13
PS If you want to confine the debate to the post Ur era, it still doesn't nullify my point.
PPS You're wrong on the facts and wrong on the principle. If you must choose a theocratic social conservative, choose Jindal or Huckabee, they at least are decent men. Keyes is  simply a self righteous POS who abandonded his own child. Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them". The fruit I see is bigotry and betrayal. A bigot with a Bible is still a bigot (and I speak from familial experience). I don't much care for bigots, I don't care what flavor they come in (leftwing, right wing, PC, racist, afro-centic homophobic or otherwise).

[TAB]

palin is another one of those, "does not have a chance in hell"

[Rastus]

I said history Tom, not civilization. Hell, digs put the aborigines in Australia earlier than that. The evidence of what we would recognize as family groups is there in Europe, Ausrtalia, Africa and Asia. Its not me that needs the history lesson here. If I hadn't lost my job, I'd buy you a subscription to The National Geographic or Nature. At least you'd read them once a day.
FQ13
PS If you want to confine the debate to the post Ur era, it still doesn't nullify my point.
PPS You're wrong on the facts and wrong on the principle. If you must choose a theocratic social conservative, choose Jindal or Huckabee, they at least are decent men. Keyes is  simply a self righteous POS who abandonded his own child. Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them". The fruit I see is bigotry and betrayal. A bigot with a Bible is still a bigot (and I speak from familial experience). I don't much care for bigots, I don't care what flavor they come in (leftwing, right wing, PC, racist, afro-centic homophobic or otherwise).

Take the Bible or not is your deal...I'm not arguing that here.  I believe if you call yourself something you should at least try to be that and be somewhat knowledgeable about it.  You guys are smart enough to read it yourself if you want and know that homosexuality is an abomination...heck, ya'll know that without being told.  You can either believe the Bible or not, that's your deal....but I take offense when someone claims my Christianity and twists the truth beyond any acceptable reason....an old, overused, tired arguement is that everything is open to interpretation.  Differences in opinion and interpretation of concepts in or out of context is one thing that I'm OK with....but this ain't one of them.

Once again, ya'll can believe it or not, but believe the Bible or disbelieve it for what it is by reading it yourself, not what someone says it is.  I don't see where interpretation comes in at all...it's pretty plain.

Jesus said:
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

I say good on Alan Keyes for breaking fellowship with his homosexual daughter.

[fullautovalmet76]

Family obligations, however have remained the same (or at least recognizably similar). Me, I believe this is Natural Law. To, loving the irony, quote that Jersey Boy Springsteen. "A man turns his back on his family and he just ain't no good". I wouldn't trust him, wouldn't hire him, and damn sure wouldn't vote him dog catcher. Self righteous pharisees are a dime a dozen. Good dads, are far too rare.
FQ13

I assume the you feel the same way if a child turns their back on their family too, right? Who was wrong in the following situations:
Ben Franklin or his son, the loyalist governor of New Jersey in the Revolution?
Abraham Lincoln or his father? Lincoln would not go to his father's funeral because of the animus that existed between them.

I think you're way off base here. Keyes is standing for his beliefs, which he bases upon his understanding of the Bible. And for someone who espouses tolerance, you only seem to only allow it for those beliefs with which you agree. Since you quoted Jesus, I will paraphrase his statement on judging others:

Judging people is a two-way street. Be aware that how you judge others is how you are going to be judged.

I think you need to take a few steps back and rethink things....

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

I assume the you feel the same way if a child turns their back on their family too, right? Who was wrong in the following situations:
Ben Franklin or his son, the loyalist governor of New Jersey in the Revolution?
Abraham Lincoln or his father? Lincoln would not go to his father's funeral because of the animus that existed between them.

I think you're way off base here. Keyes is standing for his beliefs, which he bases upon his understanding of the Bible. And for someone who espouses tolerance, you only seem to only allow it for those beliefs with which you agree. Since you quoted Jesus, I will paraphrase his statement on judging others:

Judging people is a two-way street. Be aware that how you judge others is how you are going to be judged.

I think you need to take a few steps back and rethink things....

You maybe right fullauto. Its just teaching I have come across way too many kids who never knew their dads and some boys (I won't call them men) who actually refered to a young woman as "they baby momma" in my presence, which was a mistake they did not repeat. I am just very sensetive on the subject of a father taking responsability for his children because I think, and know from seeing it, tht a lot of our current problems  are the result of too many failing to do so. I will say one last word on the gay child thing. Alan Keyes and Dick Cheney are two men I disagree with. Cheney, I would shake hands and break bread with. Its not the gay thing, its the dad thing.
FQ13
PS Lincoln was wrong not to attend his father's funeral, its just something you do. As far as Franklin, defying your father (or child) out of principle is fine. Its just that you shouldn't let that disagreement poison the whole relationship. There is such a thing as agreeing to disagree and still being civil. As my great grand dad (the klansman with whom I very much disagreed) said "There are sometimes reasons to kill a man. There are none to be rude to him".

[PegLeg45]

You boys aren't from the South, where blood is a damn sight thicker than water. The thing is, over the forty thousand or so years of human history, ideology, politics and theology have changed. Family obligations, however have remained the same (or at least recognizably similar). Me, I believe this is Natural Law. To, loving the irony, quote that Jersey Boy Springsteen. "A man turns his back on his family and he just ain't no good". I wouldn't trust him, wouldn't hire him, and damn sure wouldn't vote him dog catcher. Self righteous pharisees are a dime a dozen. Good dads, are far too rare.
FQ13

I'm from the south...and I love my family and would do anything in my power for most of them.....but I have kin that I don't associate with at all anymore........... right is right and wrong is wrong and some of them are into some powerful wrong.
I got tired of trying to help them and then getting stabbed in the back (sometimes in the eye) for my troubles.

Sometimes my southern hospitality runs a little thin .... especially when dealing with family.

[tombogan03884]

I'm from the south...and I love my family and would do anything in my power for most of them.....but I have kin that I don't associate with at all anymore........... right is right and wrong is wrong and some of them are into some powerful wrong.
I got tired of trying to help them and then getting stabbed in the back (sometimes in the eye) for my troubles.

Sometimes my southern hospitality runs a little thin .... especially when dealing with family.

Friends you can pick, relatives are "luck of the draw".

[Rastus]

I'm from the south...and I love my family and would do anything in my power for most of them.....but I have kin that I don't associate with at all anymore........... right is right and wrong is wrong and some of them are into some powerful wrong. .......

Good on you.  You are a standup guy.