might want to check this out about ammo

[tombogan03884]

Do all you people hang onto every word that every gun writer has ever written like it was carved in stone?
If so....then...good grief!
 

First off, the VPC quoted him, So what ? It doesn't say the quoted him accurately, or in context. It does not even say that He actually said what the credited to him, (That was why the book by Belleisle (sp ? ) was taken off the market, he used real citations for made up quotes)

As to the above quote from your post, of course not, (Jim Zumbo comes to mind ) But when they back up the claims with sound reasoning and personal experience they do gain added weight.
I'm carrying factory loads, you do what you want.

[Tyler Durden]

So lemme get this straight.....

IFFFF I were to get in a self defense shooting...

IFFF I were to use my own reloaded ammo....

IFFF I were to get a squib....

IFFF I were to kill somebody or severley injur somebody....

IFFF I were to get arrested....

IFFF I were to go to a grand jury....

IFFF I were to go to a criminal trial....

IFFF there was a scumbag for a DA as the prosecutor....

IFFF there was some equally crooked foresnics ballistician guy working for the State....

IFFF there were 12 people on the jury dumb enough to fall for the DA's shenanigans....

IFFF the media would turn a blind eye to WASP-ey kinda guy like myself putting down a thug...

IFFF the NRA wouldn't help me...

Hold on.... let me count these up....

Oh...okay so I have got IFFF to the twelfth power.  Which would look something like this:

1,000,000,000,000

What would be all the odds of that falling into place?

I will be back after while.  I'm gonna go buy a lottery ticket.   

In the bad part of town....

Without a carry piece.   

[Tyler Durden]

And by the by.... I shot right around 7, 200 rounds in matches last year alone.

I am guessing all reloads, since I am too cheap to buy the "good" factory stuff.

Not one of mine was a squib.

I have been reloading since 1994.

I have never, ever loaded a squib.  Maybe I just know what the heck I'm doing.

Forty bucks for high fallutin' ammo that I will never ever use.

I would rather spend $44 and get two thousand primers and build my own dang ammo, all two thousand rounds of it,  so I can practice putting boolits in somebody's eyebox when the S really does hit the F.

I hear shot placement is everything.

[tombogan03884]

 I said I wasn't reloading NOW, I started in 1973, AND I was casting my own bullets, (Actually I was casting DAD'S bullets but either way, I was doing the work ) And I have never loaded a squib either , and there are others on here that could make me look like a rank beginner.
What your attitude seems to be keeping you from realizing is that surviving the confrontation is only the beginning of the process, there is also an after math to be dealt with, and judging by the attitude you have been showing in this thread, You'd go to jail .

[GUNS-R-US]

And by the by.... I shot right around 7, 200 rounds in matches last year alone.

I am guessing all reloads, since I am too cheap to buy the "good" factory stuff.

Not one of mine was a squib.

I have been reloading since 1994.

I have never, ever loaded a squib.  Maybe I just know what the heck I'm doing.

Forty bucks for high fallutin' ammo that I will never ever use.

I would rather spend $44 and get two thousand primers and build my own dang ammo, all two thousand rounds of it,  so I can practice putting boolits in somebody's eyebox when the S really does hit the F.

I hear shot placement is everything.

The purpose of not using reloaded ammo in a SD shooting isn't because of squibs, it's because a CSI lab can determine a lot of stuff from the powder residue and fired bullets after a shooting if the type of ammo is a know quantity (factory ammo). If your using reloads you don't have that. So if you say the guy you shot was only 6' from you when you shot him but theirs not much power reside on him they (prosecutors & cops) might think your lying and try to send you to prison wrongly. And your reloading data is not going to be admissible in court. Do you want to lay your freedom in the hand of the jury based on what you say verses what the cops say because of the cost of some good quality SD ammo. But if you want to take the risk it's still a FREE country (mostly anyhow)! This is a CSI issue, 30 years ago this wouldn't have mattered! But today it does!

[Sponsor]

[Ranger Dave]

Guys I think I have it figured out. Tyler's right and we are all wrong
I think Tyler wants us all to join in a pig wrestling contest

[Tyler Durden]

Tom wrote:

judging by the attitude you have been showing in this thread, You'd go to jail

Well...lookey...lookey Johnny Law is here.

Hmmn... I have been through SERE.  And I do know a little bit about the Reid interrogation techniques.

So, yeah, I do know how to keep my yap shut.

You don't like my attitude, eh?  Don't give any, you won't get any.

Anyone else care to provide a link to an actual for real bonafide court case about  a "civilian" who was using his own reloads in a self-defense shooting?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?

[Tyler Durden]

Pig wrestling contest...hardly there chiefey...

What I am trying to do is have you people open up your minds a little bit.

Ya.... know... kinda like the Box-O-Truth guys were doing when they bought that ExtremeShock ammo and actually tested it.

[seeker_two]

I have been reloading since 1994.....Maybe I just know what the heck I'm doing.

So...you've been loading ammo for almost 16 years....how does that compare with Federal?.....Winchester?....Remington/UMC?....even S&B or Fiocci?......

....and what is the average velocity of your self-defense loads?....how about the standard deviation?....extreme spread?....ballistic coefficient?.....how about powder residue left on targets at variable distances?....or average penetration?

Factory ammo has all that on record for each lot....ready to provide for any prosecuting or defense attorney. 

Maybe you know what the heck you're doing.....but who else does?....

[Tyler Durden]

They could just use the remaining 17 to 19 rounds left in the gun (a Beretta 92FS with the 20 round Mec-Gars).  Or the 40 extra rounds in the 2 mags on my belt.

Or they could use the remaining 6 left in the mag (for a 1911 in .45 ACP which holds 8+1).  Or the remaining 16 rounds in two single stack mags also in pouches on my belt.

I do keep pretty meticulous records to include all that stuff you mentioned up above, SD's, AV's, powder charge weights, etc.  All that stuff is kept in a large 3 ring binder which the po-po could just as easily seize when they come for the rest of my guns.

By the way, that reminds me.  Claiming self-defense is an affirmative defense, so if I was ever involved in a self-defense shooting that went to a criminal trial, I would have to testify...err...take the stand on my behalf.  At that time, I could easily have my attorney enter into evidence my 3 ring binder of reloading data, IF  and that's a big IFFF the DA/prosecuting attorney wanted to pursue that avenue.

I think it is so much of "damned if you, damned if you don't."

"Oh, you used 9mm rounds.  Well ladies and gentleman of the jury, clearly the defendant intended to use those slender high velocity bullets because their speed causes them to be more lethal.  He chose those back in May 2009 which clearly shows malice of forethought/premeditation."

"Oh, you used those .45 ACP rounds.  Well ladies and gentleman of the jury, clearly the defendant intended to use those heavier bullets because their momentum causes them to be more lethal.  He chose those back in May 2009 which clearly shows malice of forethought/premeditation."

"Clearly, he chose to make the deceased victim more dead by chosing those bullets."

I am waiting for those links, by the way.