Opinions wanted on a "taking a walk" scenario. Trainers please chime in.

[D Haught]

This is based on a situation that happened to me one day before I started carrying and I'd like some opinions on how to handle something similar to this.

You take your dog for a short walk in your neighborhood at night and encounter a group of 5 or 6 apparently highschool aged males who upon noticing you begin to approach you and taunt you apparently trying to start trouble. To continue back to your home you need to pass by or through this group of individuals. Other than superior numbers and a confrontational attitude they have made no physical or verbal threats but are directly in your path and approaching you. You are legally carrying a concealed firearm, as well as a flashlight and a cell phone, while walking a small dog which serves as no deterrent. There are no side streets at this point and yards are fenced. What are some good ways to approach this situation? If they have no visible weapons but are attempting to block your path and confront you what kind of action should you take? 6 people is definitely disparity of force. People also tend to be more bold in groups.

Should you turn around and head the other way? You can't get home that way and they are already walking towards you and less than 50 feet away. How should you verbally and physically respond in this type of situation?
I know this is kind of a loaded scenario but it is very similar to a situation I encountered where I was able to turn onto my street and be within about 60 feet of my front door and just went inside. I also wasn't carrying at that time. I have since pondered the appropriate response to that situation if I were further away from my house and not able to immediately escape it.
Should you turn and walk back away from the direction that takes you home? Even if they don't pursue you still have to go by them to get home and what if they pursue? I wouldn't think it would be advisable to try to split the group and walk through them. 

I'm sorry if this thread isn't very well constructed but I would appreciate some input on possible ways to handle this situation because to this point nothing that has happened would justify brandishing a weapon which is illegal in my state.

[fightingquaker13]

I guess I'd ask two questions. 1) what type of high school males (no I'm not profiling, just do they set off the "thug" radar, though appearances can be deceiving) 2) Do you feel like your life is in danger, or are they just being bullies?
I  wouldn't flash a gun unless you are prepared to use it and can justify it. This is doubly true as pack mentality might make them feel that you won't use it , and do something stupid, and that leads to badness. Don't escalate till you have to. First choice is eating a little humble pie, try to verbally descalate the situation while gaining some real eastate and if possible walk away, even if it means walking around the block to get back home. If that fails, it gets tricky. If they close in, how close is too close? My own (very, very limited experience) says ten feet is too close. Its at that point you draw or don't. That is in no way a reccomendation, just what I have sort of set as a personal line after mulling over a scenario a whole lot. It seems the minimum safe distance to flash before having to fire, but its still iffy. Honestly its going to come down to deciding if you're dealing with boneheads or thugs, and there will be hell to pay if you call it wrong one way or the other.
FQ13

[Solus]

As they get close tell them to keep moving or they will blow a police stake out.  Touch your ear with your hand and say   "No, don't do anything. I think they will be cool".

[Pathfinder]

Dial 911 on the cell phone before they reach you, have your finger on eht send button. If they start something, hit send, and engage them in conversation. It may take a while, but the police will show up.

The disparity of force in some states is not considered adequate for show of deadly force. If you do have to draw, call 911 immediately and get them there on your side, otherwise it will be the word of these "choirboys" against yours.

Get a bigger dog while you're at it, something like a German Shepherd!   

[MikeBjerum]

A lot of assumptions, because even though you gave a good description there is a lot to fill in:

Fifty feet and closing is plenty close -

1.  Change course - cross the street.  If they continue to block or prove to be strutting and posturing do an about face providing you are not heading into a "dead end."  Further from home is not bad if you can eventually get there.

2.  If they are proving that they have intents - just harassing or otherwise, use your phone to call 911.

3.  If you continue to feel a threat, while on line with 911, shine light and with a strong verbal command order them to give you space.  In EMS we were taught and taught that a six foot radius was "our property," and no one was allowed in that perimeter without our permission.  Due to how fast a threat can close distance we protected out to twenty feet.

4.  Do not panic, and do not run, unless being chased.  Be confident and strong, but do not threaten what you can not promise - if you don't have a gun, don't threaten to shoot.  The nice thing about calling 911 first is that when you say the police are on the way ... they are!

5.  On your own posture and presence: As Walt Rauch has said - You don't want to be a sheep.  You want to be grissle.  Stand tall and confident, don't look down or away.  Move straight, tall and with purpose.  Wolves attack the weak.  And as I add - Don't go looking for wolf packs to test this out!

Stay alert, be observant, and stay alert!

I'm sure there will be much more, and I look forward to hearing form Rob and Michael.

[Sponsor]

[D Haught]

Thanks for the replies and yes I am also hoping to get the take of Rob or Michael as well.

I understand that my post may not be the best but I had a similar scenario happen once and I happened to be close enough to the house to just turn down my street and go inside and call the sheriff's dept. to notify them of the group.
It was a mixed group of whites and blacks that I encountered and no I did not feel that my life was in danger at the time but I think that in general I would not have initially felt that my life was in danger but even without obvious weapons a group that size can be deadly even with bare hands and feet. 
The problem I see is that when encountering groups the pack mentality can take over and someone within the group almost always will try to agitate the situation and the person or people that are showing off for their buddies. Also with groups, if an attack does develop it has the potential to be immediately overwhelming and much more violent in some cases than 1 on 1 confrontation. I also see no need to assume that "High School age" appearing individuals are necessarily that, nor are they any less dangerous than adults in a situation like that.

After mulling this over for a while I decided to post it to get some input since I wasn't exactly sure how to approach a similar situation if avoiding the confrontation by crossing the street or just giving the group a wide birth was not possible such that the group was intent on confronting me. Obviously simply being confronted isn't justification to draw or especially to engage with a firearm but if the confrontation was forced you could obviously be overwhelmed quickly should the situation deteriorate to physical violence.

[fightingquaker13]

That's the thing D Haut. It doesn't do much good to shoot yourself into a jail cell. It seems the not looking like easy prey/trying to move away and descalate/calling the cops are your best options. Fine, that's all easy advice. You already knew that. How to deal with it if that doesn't seem to work? Damned if I know. I guess you coonvince yourself that you've done everything you can to get away, hopefully initiate contact with cops and then roll the dice. Hope you'll be ok without bringing the gun into play or decide that you need to? At which point you've bought the ticket and you take the ride. I don't think there is a right answer here.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

I  would first cross the street if they did so as well I would call 911 and report that they were harassing passersby, (in your first post you mentioned they were taunting you ) I would keep the dispatcher on the line while I passed them, and I would be obvious about having the cops on the line.
As far as the gun goes, how you carry may determine your response, if you pocket carry you can have your hand on the grip ready to draw with out it being obvious, other types of carry that is not possible but depending on local climate you may want to unzip any jacket or cover garment that may impede your draw if it's needed, slide your thumb back along your belt to make sure your shirttail is not going to impede your draw, and mentally accept that things may very well be going to hell in a handbasket in the next couple minutes.
If none of that works and they attack you, kill them all if you have to bite out their throats and gauge out their eyes until they quit trying to harm you. BUT REMEMBER THE INSTANT THEY CEASE TO ATTACK, YOU ALSO MUST BACK OFF.
You can't, like in some of these videos, chase down the survivors, or  finish off the casualties.

In closing I would strongly urge professional Self Defense training that covers the zero to 5 foot range such as offered by Michael Janich or Gabe Suarez.

[fightingquaker13]

I agree with Tom here, I think he summed it up. The Monty Python drill (run away run away, or walk away in this case) is always the best and cheapest option. Failing that try to cover your ass legally (via the 911 call which will indicate you felt threatened), and literally, which means making the decision BEFORE you touch your gun, that you are prepared for things to get ugly. This is the nightmare scenario. Multiple attackers, no clear cut justification like a burglar or carjacker, and a real caveman level sense that your life is in danger if you don't react, coupled with the knowledge that you will  go through legal hell at best if you fire. I can think of few worse scenarios. Gotta say D, for  guy with 2 posts, you're turning out to be quite the buzzkill.
FQ13
PS welcome aboard

[shooter32]

When on walks or hikes I have pepper spary and my ccw, your cell phone is a must as others have said, 911.