This Is Insane !

[billt]

Also the authorities of the region seem to be more corrupt than not so why not put a bunch of Americans in jail and make some publicity.

it still doesn't change the fact that you can't take away some one's kid because you want what's best for them. Suppose Bill Gates wanted Mrs.T. He could buy her a lot more guns than even you. Are you going to let him have her?


Come on. This isn't about buying guns. Get real. Let's go once again to reality.

1.) These kids have zero chance.

2.) They have a chance to be sent to a better place which is anyplace. These people who sent them there aren't criminals. Do you honestly think they are better off staying there because the parents are idiot's who just because they "produced them"  deserve them? Get real. If I was one of those kids I would want off that rock as fast as I could! You damn well know it!

[tt11758]

From the limited information I have heard on this situation is seems that, while these people lacked the necessary paperwork, their hearts were in the right place.  It would seem to me that if BHO could send BJ Klintoon to Korea to gain the release of a pair of Al Whore employees who wandered into that country, the State Department could DAMN sure point out to Haiti that, in this situation, it should be "no harm, no foul", and get these people sprung from jail.  I guess instead of being therre working for the Lord, they shoulda signed on with Al Whore.

[billt]

From the limited information I have heard on this situation is seems that, while these people lacked the necessary paperwork, their hearts were in the right place.  It would seem to me that if BHO could send BJ Klintoon to Korea to gain the release of a pair of Al Whore employees who wandered into that country, the State Department could DAMN sure point out to Haiti that, in this situation, it should be "no harm, no foul", and get these people sprung from jail.  I guess instead of being therre working for the Lord, they shoulda signed on with Al Whore.

Exactly. It has yet to be proven these kids "belonged" to anyone. Even if they did, it would most certainly be cause for removal from a states based home if they were treated that way here. Then what? Would the media be screaming foul? No, they would want the heads of the parents on a plate. 700 miles of ocean can cause the best of brains to become void of common sense.  Bill T.

[fightingquaker13]

Exactly. It has yet to be proven these kids "belonged" to anyone. Even if they did, it would most certainly be cause for removal from a states based home if they were treated that way here. Then what? Would the media be screaming foul? No, they would want the heads of the parents on a plate. 700 miles of ocean can cause the best of brains to become void of common sense.  Bill T.

"Treated that way"? What way? Being poor in a poor country? Look, neither of us has all the facts so wecan't have an intelligent debate. All that we can do usefully is state our first principles that would guide us in a hypothetical case. Yours seems to be that getting any child out of that hell hole is a good thing for the child and therefore the ends justify the means. The wishes of the parents and local laws are irrelevant as the children will be better off if they live here rather than there and there is ample evidence to prove it. Mine are that no one , absent neglect or abuse, can justly seperate a child from its family, and that even the lowliest nation on earth has not just the right, but the duty to stand on its hind legs and enforce this principle against the strongest nation on earth. I think I have fairly stated your case. I also think we should debate these principles, rather than a rather murky case where facts are scarce on the ground.
respectfully
FQ13

[billt]

How can you debate the fact growing up in Haiti is a lost cause no matter who you are? It is the poorest country in the entire hemisphere. The average person exists on less than $2 a day! No child should have to live in those conditions period! The fact is millions do. You have a group of people who tried to take a few of them out. They are now in jail for it. What else is there to know? I don't care who there parents are, if these people had "proper paperwork", what they had for lunch, or anything else. It doesn't matter. If the kids remain there they will have about as lousy of a life as one could possibly imagine. If they get off that rock, however, or by the actions of whomever, they have a chance. If they remain they have zero chance. What is so difficult to comprehend here? I'm not seeing it. As I said, if a parent subjected a child to those conditions here, CFS would yank them out of the home in a heartbeat, and the parents would be facing neglect and abuse charges. In that hellhole we mourn for the "poor parents". Give me a break!  Bill T.

[Sponsor]

[billt]

I guess my feelings can be summed up in the fact that I believe there are more stringent qualifications to being a parent than the ability to eat and screw.  Bill T.

[fightingquaker13]

How can you debate that no mother should have her child stolen by people wealthier than herself? By you logic it would seem that any rich, loving and childless couple should be able to grab a kid out of a ghetto or trailer park on the premise (lets assume an honest one) that it would have a better life with them. This may seem to trivialize the matter, but it doesn't. Some rights are not to be messed with no matter how well intended you are. If the parents or surviving family members want to give their kids up, good. If not, its their call.
FQ13

[philw]

I guess my feelings can be summed up in the fact that I believe there are more stringent qualifications to being a parent than the ability to eat and screw.  Bill T.

110% agree



there are people here I know that do not deserve kids   and I know people  that would be very good parents  that are not able to at this stage and are working out if they can go on IVF...




like I have said in the past  

you need a licence to drive a car, boat, own a firearm, ect

yet they let anyone breed....  and the kids end up suffering in the cases  and it then just goes around in a circle


this is just a general comment  not related to this particular

and a little too close to home... with out me jumping on the Rant box about a few people i know    AHHHHHHHH  must not get on it.

[billt]

you need a licence to drive a car, boat, own a firearm, ect yet they let anyone breed....  and the kids end up suffering in the cases  and it then just goes around in a circle

Right on the money. You don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to analyze this. It is common sense. These people have no business breeding, but do so anyway. Because they do the product of that breeding, the child suffers, because these stupid, foolish, selfish "parents" cannot have their "rights violated". It makes me sick. If potential parents had to pass an I.Q. test before breeding, the worlds population would drop drastically, and for the better.   Bill T.

[fightingquaker13]

Right on the money. You don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to analyze this. It is common sense. These people have no business breeding, but do so anyway. Because they do the product of that breeding, the child suffers, because these stupid, foolish, selfish "parents" cannot have their "rights violated". It makes me sick. If potential parents had to pass an I.Q. test before breeding, the worlds population would drop drastically, and for the better.   Bill T.

Bill
I'm going to word this post carefully. I don't mean it to sound arrogant, argumentative or accusatory as I think you are a good guy. In fact, empirically speaking, I think you have a good case. The problem is in the morality of the thing. You have basically echoed the eugenisist argument here. Lets put racism aside and assume an equal opportunity standard, because I'm damn sure NOT accuseing you of racism. The thing is I am pro-choice. That means the right to abstinence, birth control, abortion and parenthood. What government body would you trust to tell people whether they can/must produce or not produce a child? By what right does anyone submit to any IQ, or other, test to do so? In an ideal world the worlds population would be half of what is now and we'd all have Einstein's brain, Angelina Jolie's, or Brad Pitts looks and Peyton Manning's athletic ability. But that way leads to badness, because when you try to engineer it.......
FQ13