(Non-Gun) But, my first step in Fed. Gov. Reductions

[MikeBjerum]

This is only one of the sites I went to for information:
http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/10facts/index.html

According to the Constitution, education is the responsibility of the States, and not the Federal Government.  Our leaders from all sides of the aisle have screwed this system up beyond belief ... FUBAR I believe would describe it.

Starting now -

Eliminate the Department of Education - $37.6 Billion in spending sent to k12 and grants for higher education (discretionary spending in their terms).  Cut this from the federal budget, and cut it from the tax system.  Let the states tax income and/or sales to make this up in their own states.

Eliminate all but one person "Secretary of Education" and a staff of four clerical from the federal budget - estimate $75 million from different sites total cost down to one million for salaries, office and reports to leadership.

From the $74 million saved in employee savings on the federal level - cut taxes by $37 million and apply the other $37 million to the Social Security system to repay money "borrowed" to run this mess we call a nation (sarcastic remark referring to what our leaders are doing not the nation itself).

I fully believe that by eliminating the U.S. Department of Education our states and local schools could do more with the employees they already have, and that states could actually cut their staffs due to not needing to "brown nose" the feds.

Worst case I just saved the citizens of the United States $74 million per year based on the 2010 budget.  However, I feel that if citizens, politicians and local administrators take this seriously we could easily see the total of $37.6 billion reduced even more when local schools don't have to mess with meaningless regulations.

I know that $37 million savings to the tax payers and $37 million repayment to Social Security is a mere drop in the ocean (as explained in the video with the pennies demonstrating $100 million), but we need to start somewhere.  You don't eat an elephant a leg or side at a time.  You eat an elephant one bite at a time, and this idea is a bite.

I have a lot of these thoughts rolling around.  This is what 3,500 miles a month in the car, and at least two nights a week in a motel will do.  When I shut off the radio and don't have the phone or computer disturbing my thought process my warped brain really goes to work.

[fightingquaker13]

Yep, cutting spending on education and not having a national vision of what a minimum (not a maximum) of what a US education should cover is wise. Likewise, those pesky student loans and Pell Grants (remember those?), along with Land Grant Colleges are terribly wasteful. M58, make sure your exhaust is venting properly on those road trips. Why are we blaming teachers for the mess caused by poor parenting (the main problem) and too much bureacracy? Here's the thing. At the end of the day it all boils down to this. Please listen closely, because I swear its crucial. In a globalized eonomy all products, money, and technology flow freely without regard to borders. There is one, and only one exception to this, and that is labor. Unless the US maintains a supply of the smartest, best trained and most flexible workers, managers and innovators in the world, India and China will eat our lunch.  We need these folks. They don't spring forth out of some sense of American exceptionalism/entitlement. They are produced at great cost through education. We must provide this as it is far more important to national security that all the military services combined. Indeed the military itself is exhibit A. Who's going to build, design and operate all of our compex widgets of destruction if they aren't educated? You don't whittle an F-18. And you don't hire the ignorant to maintain it. I'm not saying don't fix the system, just don't think that we can abrogate a national responsibility to a national need to the states and call it responsible policy.Thinking forgoing federal responsibility for this in the name of a tax cut is madness. It makes eating the seed corn look like a good idea.
FQ13

[Pathfinder]

Aw, FQ, there you go gettin' all faux "libertarian" again.

1. There is no Constitutional provision for the DoEd, and the 10th Amendment makes that pretty damn clear.

2. The NEA pretty much controls the education system in this country - at the national and local levels. They are one of the biggest pro-state over the citizen groups we have, and are in large part responsible for the "hate America" and "zero tolerance" crap we see in schools all of the time.

3. Although there is merit in advocating a national set of standards, that can be the role of the Secretary of the national education cabinet post and his/her 4 admins to handle. Math, Reading/Writing, history especially of the founding of the US kind, are the basic standards that need to be set.

4. The only drawback to M58's idea is that states have so seriously screwed themselves up financially that the extra tax burden would be catastrophic. Think kalifornia, taxachusetts and illinois.

5. We do hire the ignorant to maintain F-18s - the repair books are written to the 6th grade level, and the planes are a mass of black boxes. If function X is broke, replace black box ABC. Besides, you are only ignorant until you are trained. Stupid is forever.   

[Solus]

I agree with FQ about the parents.

I worked for a large city school district for several years and our student performance was always being compared to private schools.

The private school students always performed, on average, better than the public school students.

However, the district has several of what were called 'magnet' schools.  These were special focus schools, like college prep, physical education, performing arts and a few others.  

Desire to get placed in one of these schools was high.  Enrollment was based of first come first serve.  Parents of students who wanted their kids to be enrolled would camp in line a day or two ahead of the enrollment day to ensure their kid got in.  They would take time off work and tag-team each other to keep their place in line.  True parental commitment.

The kids in these school did as good or better than the kids in private schools where the parents commitment was more financial than time.

Now my question was why wasn't every school a college prep school?

I worked closely with teachers in the Broadcast and Publishing Journalism school who were volunteers 'on loan' from the private sector.  They were dedicated and professional.  The problem they described to me was  that 10% of the student body were 'trouble makers' and took up 90% of their teaching time.  

Addressing that problem if difficult in a PC environment,  but needs to be done if quality education is to be provided.

A vice principal in a particular rough neighborhood told me that most of his work was appearing in court when a student was on trial there.  He said traditional discipline methods, like paddling, just didn't work any more.  Aside from child cruelty concerns,  the trend was for as many female students to be delinquent as males and a male teacher paddling a female student just wasn't gonna pass scrutiny.  

He said detention or suspension was a joke there when the kids were roving in gangs after school armed with various weapons.  Teachers also had some concerns about revenge in that environment.

Teacher Pay?   I have started to 'preach' here about the need to 'take back the schools'.  We has all heard or used the catch phrase:   Those who can do. Those who can't teach.

Well, how do we get the ones with a desire and aptitude to teach out of  'Those who can' to become teachers if all we want to pay is cut rate wages?  

That Sec. of Ed. has a big job right there dealing with WHO is going to teach and not even thinking about WHAT will be taught.

[tombogan03884]

All 4 of you raise valid points.
It seems that the first target of reform should be Parents, until parents instill a respect for learning , and self discipline (instead of Ritalin ) most money spent on education would be better spent on prisons.
Then address the problem of mismanaged State budgets, (this is part of the answer to every problem that faces the country )
Then we can effectively attack the problem of incompetent teachers, and socialist agendas in the curriculum.
The fact remains that other countries are able to supply a better education for far less money. How are THEY doing it ?

[Sponsor]

[MikeBjerum]

My point, FQ, is that we have 4,199 federal employees overseeing our education system, and every year the system is getting less and less effective.  For all the oversight, standards, testing, incentives and penalties, we are still turning out more and more students that can't reason their way out of a plan brown wrapper.  For all the focus on technology we have graduates that can't read, write, do math without an electronic gismo, or understand basic history of this great nation much less the world as a whole.

I propose we hand basic k12 education back to the local citizens where it started and was meant to be.  Let the market and higher education system dictate standards and drive progress.  Let my children learn how to read, write, spell, do math and understand history and government.  Let us teach what a computer is, and let them learn how to use it, but let vocational training teach them how to run specific programs and tasks.

Our national PC focus is ruining our students and their educational experience.  Even if we don't save a dime, returning control and focus to the local level, where it was intended Constitutionally, will put care back in the hands of family.  Remember, the society that built this nation, bred the medical, technological, and education masters we have came from a bunch of home schoolers and one room school houses.  We don't need kindergartners that can read novels and do math.  We need children that know how to use their imaginations, tie their shoes, can tell time, and can play well with others in the sandbox.

My wife mentors/tutors 5th - 7th graders that don't know their multiplication tables.  They can't do the simple math they need for Algebra without calculators.  She focused for a few weeks on simple multiplication tables, and that alone brought three girls from failing to B's and C's for final grades, with many perfect test scores on the way.  However, our federal system has lost sight of the basics in favor of the abstract.  What good to society is a rocket scientist that mastered physics if he can't keep track of how many dollars of groceries there are in his cart or how to balance his checkbook ... Ooooops ... balancing checkbooks is not needed if you want to run a nation 

[tombogan03884]

Let's leave algebra out of this shall we  ?
I have no problem with formulas that I actually use like length X width  = Area, but Algebra as such I never "got".

[MikeBjerum]

My point is that those in power and those that think they are on the right track have forgotten what we need to do to reach the goal. 

Everyone agrees that before we can win a foot race in the Olympics we must fine tune our running skills; before that we must learn to run a race; before that we need to learn to run, and we must understand competition; before that we must learn to walk and that there are different levels of skills; before that we must learn that everyone in the world is different, and we must recognized that everyone has different gifts; before that we must learn to crawl; and before any of that we must learn to move independently.

In running races, and all athletics, coaches remember that everything from learning to crawl to fine tuning remains in effect.  They however are improving the fine tuning daily, and this is what makes athletes better, faster and stronger.

In education people have forgotten that without the basics we can't advance to current levels or what is yet to come.  If I don't know that a room that is 12' x 16' has a square footage of 192', that a square yard is nine square feet, how will I know that I could be getting ripped off by someone charging me for 25 yards of carpet if I don't question their math and installation issues?  Or, if I don't understand that information I will be at the mercy of my fat fingers on the calculator and not be able to mentally oversee my own work.

I'm sorry, but I would prefer to have fewer education elite in exchange for a large number of average people of knowledge.

[tombogan03884]

I think that in fighting for higher wages, new buildings , more money etc they have lost track of the fact that the objective is turn turn out educated citizens, not to simply get more $ .

[SwoopSJ]

In a globalized eonomy all products, money, and technology flow freely without regard to borders. There is one, and only one exception to this, and that is labor. Unless the US maintains a supply of the smartest, best trained and most flexible workers, managers and innovators in the world, India and China will eat our lunch. 

While the smartest and best trained innovators may be desired by U.S. businesses, the worker and manager portions of the labor force are governed by a totally different standard... expense.  U.S. companies, for the most part, are willing to pay for the relatively small number of employees responsible for research and development, but there is precious little room at the top.  The other jobs, which make up the vast majority, can, will, and have been outsourced.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but our "lunch" has already been eaten.