Thoughts and Opinions Wanted

[Outlaw]

USSA-1, Well said! Especially about being pinned as the BG just for having it at the scene. I use mine for practice out in BFE in South Colorado. Other than that it's in my gun safe.

[Kelly Neal]

I believe that I quote Jeff Cooper in stating "the AK is a rifle for the masses while the FAL is a weapon for the classes."  If you don't want an AR platform, check out the DSA FAL, particularly the Hampton model w/ an AR15A2 sight mounted into the lower receiver.  You would also want the extreme duty scope mount so you can easily mount an optic.  .308 is expensive to shoot but at least magazines are cheap and plentiful and you can get functional 30 rounders. Another good .308 would be a Springfield Armory M1A scout although they are harder to scope.

FYI I am sponsored by DSA so I'm biased but check out the FAL

You'd don't mention your issue with the AR but perhaps a piston driven AR upper would solve it. There are several good ones out there.  I've got a POF 16 inch upper that has got to be the most reliable semiauto  (rifle, pistol or shotgun) that I've ever shot. 

[Swamp Yankee]

Kelly Thanks for the reply. Main reason for not liking the AR is I am a lefty after 10 rounds I can't see. Yes I know they make LH models now. But after 25 yrs of shooting I am used to and am more familiar with the right hand design. Also do not like the gas system as they must be kept immaculately clean to function properly. I  do like the Springfields  but I can not buy one as I am going to inherit a Socom from one of my good friends. I love the 308 cartridge it is the best all around cartridge on the market. I also like the 7.62 x 39 just not as accurate as I would prefer but it gets the job done. I know with the current offerings in 223 you have more flexibility as far as bullet weight for different shooting situations but you have to adjust for each one. I definately want the option of fixed adjustable sights and optics mount. I will take a look at the DSA/FAL

Mike Mc

[DDMac]

Like I said, not a lot of Kel-Tec fans here.  Mac.

PS. bought the folder C model. Fired about 200 rounds through it. Ate up a playing card at 25 yds with factory sites. No problems with FMJ, 5.56 ammo. Hard to clean the chamber area. Very light carry. Hillary said I was on her hit list. I'm cool with that. Mac.

[Swamp Yankee]

 I am getting that kind of feeling DDMack. No Kel-Tek love here . It is still on my short list  I realy don't want an AK and I already have an SKS  I have found some better info on the Kel-Tek Forum sight and most are pleased. A little info on the SU16c The bolt handle with the built on case deflector is known to cause stove pipes and they recommend putting the standard bolt handle on to cure it.

Mike MC

[Sponsor]

[Kelly Neal]

My experience with the AR platform is not that it has to be kept clean, it just has to be kept lubed. I'm not big on cleaning guns (unless they're "duty or carry" guns) and my most of my ARs go for thousands of rounds between cleaning but they always work as they're lubed.  But take a look at the FAL, I really enjoy shooting them.

Could you describe your problem with shooting an AR lefty.  What do you mean that you can't see?

[warhawke]

My problem is that the Kel-Tek SU-16 is a toy. Like the Mini-14 it is a weapon for weekend plinkers and Range-Rambos not for the down and the dirty. I want a weapon that will stand up to real use, not a cheap noisemaker, that is why I won't own an AR. The AK, FN, H&K/CETME/PTR, M-1, M-1A these are all real weapons designed to work under field conditions. The SIG 556, FN F2000 and the FN SCAR-L (as much as I dislike the round they fire) are built to be used in the field, even the Romanian PSl and the Yugo M76 are able to handle harsh conditions. The AR-15's, SU-16, AR-180B and the Mini-14's simply are not up to the task if you plan to use them for serious social work.

If you plan to punch paper and plink soda-cans then it doesn't matter what you use, but if you expect to get a life-saving tool you need to get the best one you can.

[DDMac]

While I agree with your philosophy, Warhawke, the little folder fulfills a particular need for my work. No chance I'll need to butt stroke anybody with it. I do, however, have two on your approved list, when I need to venture off the farm. When you're right, you're right! Thanks, Mac.

[Bidah]

If you check the specs on the SU-16, the twist is 1/9 for a 16" barrel.  You **might** be able to shoot the 75gr Hornady bullets ok.  Most likely you will be shooting under than weight, so 50gr to 69gr bullets will be the norm.  That should answer part of your original question.

[Swamp Yankee]

As far as not being able to see the gas port blows into my eye with the AR right hand model. I know it is reversed on the lefties. Parts for the lefties could be a problem in a crisis situation what kind of availabillity is there. Point taken on the lube but in a field situation no time to do it in a crisis, it must go bang every time.  My number one choise would be a true M-14 but The local sherif will not issue the Class III. I know AK's are great but like the AR it is a me too gun one for the masses. But it is readily available in multiple chamberings with plenty of Ammo available. I want something different that is light ,versatile and reliable and easy to maintain.  As far as Range Rambo's and plinkers most all of them have AR's decked out with all kinds of worthless junk. I am still looking at the FAL and others and researching them . But I have to ask my self do I want a backup type of light weight carbine ? Or a rock steady no holds barred tactical field proven piece. I see the practicality of the SU-16 design wise,simple operating system,  folding stock, extra mag storage on board, heat shield doubles as a bipod and 1913 rail.  I like all of the advise I am getting this is the kind of information I am looking fo.r Keep it coming both Pro's and Con's.  The greatest life saving tool is your brain use it to make educated and reasonable  decisions

Mike Mc