Poll

Who's the best candidate for real thinking Americans ?  Why ?

Bachmann
4 (16%)
Perry
15 (60%)
Cain
6 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 23


Author Topic: Bachmann, Perry or Cain  (Read 8631 times)

seeker_two

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2011, 07:00:28 PM »
Perry is the Texas version of Bill Clinton....he can sound good to whomever he's talking to at the time....social conservatives, business leaders, Tea Party, RHINO's, etc.....he's a master at target marketing.

The problem I have with Perry is that he brings a lot of baggage with him into the race, such as:

1. Approving an illegal income tax: http://www.kutnews.org/post/suit-alleges-perry-approved-unconstitutional-income-tax

2. Controversy with the Texas Enterprise Fund: http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/report-texas-enterprise-fund-falls-short-on-jobs-904912.html, http://info.tpj.org/watchyourassets/enterprise2/index

3. Selling Texas-built roads to foreign companies: http://www.statesman.com/news/local/perrys-toll-road-sins-mostly-in-woulda-coulda-193585.html

4. Using state funds to bring Formula 1 Racing to Austin, and charges of bribery on the F1 head: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/8648669/Formula-One-chief-executive-Bernie-Ecclestone-formally-accused-of-paying-bribe.html, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/11/texas-teacher-layoffs_n_860447.html

5. Wishy-washy illegal alien policies: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/rick-perrys-immigration-journey-could-haunt-presidential-race.php, http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/rick-perrys-immigration-journey-could-haunt-presidential-race.php

6. Massive cuts to education in Texas while other business-related projects remain untouched: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7465134.html, http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2015476534_perry01.html, http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=43525

Perry's been good at letting his policy controversies slide off his back in Texas....but I don't think he'll be as successful in the national media. And I'd rather see him get trounced in the GOP primary by a good candidate than to win the Repub nomination and get blasted by all of this in the general election....and guarantee Obama a second go at gutting our nation....

I picked Cain....but I'd be just as happy with Bachmann or Santorum....
Why, yes....I'm the right-wing extremist Obama warned you about... ;D

I just wish Texas was as free and independent as everyone thinks it is...   :'(

tombogan03884

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2011, 07:34:28 PM »
Senators rarely get elected and don't necessarily make the best Presidents anyway!  In modern history, I believe that JFK was the only other Senator to become POTUS.  It's up for debate if he was a good one or not...I'm going with not!

The other has already proven he ain't going to be nominated to the Hall of Fame!

edit....I forgot about Truman, Johnson and Nixon but you get the drift.....not exactly stellar Presidencies...

And that was after having been Vice President.
OK scratch Rubio    ;D

The only reason JFK is remembered "fondly" is because he and Jackie looked good on TV , just like the Clinton's.
The only high point in his administration was the Cuban missile Crisis and he handled that with a back room deal, not the "eyeball to eyeball" stand off it's depicted as. We pulled our nukes out of Turkey right after the Soviets pulled theirs out of Cuba.
He had a bunch of civil rights legislation that didn't go any where until Johnson rammed it through.
The only reason anyone remembers him is for getting his head blown off on video.


Perry is the Texas version of Bill Clinton....he can sound good to whomever he's talking to at the time....social conservatives, business leaders, Tea Party, RHINO's, etc.....he's a master at target marketing.

The problem I have with Perry is that he brings a lot of baggage with him into the race, such as:

1. Approving an illegal income tax: http://www.kutnews.org/post/suit-alleges-perry-approved-unconstitutional-income-tax
Seems politically motivated, Kay Bailey Hutchison is scum, if she hates Perry I'm for Perry

2. Controversy with the Texas Enterprise Fund: http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/report-texas-enterprise-fund-falls-short-on-jobs-904912.html, http://info.tpj.org/watchyourassets/enterprise2/index
"fell short of projected" Texas still created more jobs than the rest of the nation combined, again, seems politically motivated

3. Selling Texas-built roads to foreign companies: http://www.statesman.com/news/local/perrys-toll-road-sins-mostly-in-woulda-coulda-193585.html
FTA "But Hutchison's campaign is treating the corridor plan — and its potential taking of farmland — as if it still has a pulse, foreign toll road leases like they're proliferating, and toll conversions as if they have a chance of happening (even Perry has disowned the strategy, and they now require a public vote). She's right in that Perry did want to do all those things, and probably still would if the politics were right. But they're not. Seems like another politically motivated attack by a woman who has proven herself to be a RINO, versus Perry, who is man enough to dump a bad idea.

4. Using state funds to bring Formula 1 Racing to Austin, and charges of bribery on the F1 head: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/8648669/Formula-One-chief-executive-Bernie-Ecclestone-formally-accused-of-paying-bribe.html, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/11/texas-teacher-layoffs_n_860447.html
  I wouldn't believe the Huffington Post if they said grass was green, That being said our lousy showing in test scores versus other countries proves that money isn't the answer to lousy teaching and lazy students. It is suspicious that no mention is made of how much revenue will be generated by the races. We have a couple Indy car, and 2 Nascar races up here and they generate a buttload of money for the local economy.

5. Wishy-washy illegal alien policies: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/rick-perrys-immigration-journey-could-haunt-presidential-race.php, http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/rick-perrys-immigration-journey-could-haunt-presidential-race.php
FTA;"a failed attempt by the governor to crack down on "sanctuary cities" with legislation that would free police officers to question people on their immigration status had poisoned the atmosphere completely. San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, who spoke before the governor, condemned Perry's bill as "easily the most anti-Latino agenda in more than a generation."
What's the problem ? Other than not getting it passed ? I've advocated the same thing.

6. Massive cuts to education in Texas while other business-related projects remain untouched: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7465134.html, http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2015476534_perry01.html, http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=43525
Covered above, $ is not the cure for crappy teaching and lazy students. America spends more than any other country, and ranks around 15th in test scores.

Perry's been good at letting his policy controversies slide off his back in Texas....but I don't think he'll be as successful in the national media. And I'd rather see him get trounced in the GOP primary by a good candidate than to win the Repub nomination and get blasted by all of this in the general election....and guarantee Obama a second go at gutting our nation....
Good point
I picked Cain....but I'd be just as happy with Bachmann or Santorum....

tt11758

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2011, 06:04:51 AM »
Didn't work all that well with Carter 1.0.................  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

But I get what you meant, and for the most part agree. Should be a direct step up with a shallower learning curve.

Was Carter as shitty a Governor as he was a President?  If so, maybe we should say "GOOD Governors make better Presidents than do Senators".
I love waking up every morning knowing that Donald Trump is President!!

Pathfinder

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2011, 06:52:49 AM »
Quote
6. Massive cuts to education in Texas while other business-related projects remain untouched: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7465134.html, http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2015476534_perry01.html, http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=43525
Covered above, $ is not the cure for crappy teaching and lazy students. America spends more than any other country, and ranks around 15th in test scores.

I listened to an interview with Michelle Rhee whom I would label a flaming liberal who was the Supt. of Schools under Mayor Fenty (who lost the Heller case) in DC. In her first year as Supt., she closed 23 schools and fired 40% of the principals. Although the "community activists" hollered their heads off, they were facing a system that included a bloated HQ bureaucracy (over a 1000 people when she started, less than half that when she left), reading scores for 8th graders that showed 13% were at or above grade level, and math scores showing 8% at or above grade level.

No one is calling for her head - at the moment - but then she is not running for political office (although she is currently dating the mayor of Sacramento). AND - she is a liberal. If TX faced something similar, I would expect Perry to make changes. I agree with Tom - this all looks politically motivated. Texans, give us something of substance about Perry.
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tombogan03884

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2011, 10:57:11 AM »
It occurred to me last night that Cain does not have previous political experience.
If I'm wrong on that, let me know.
While we do not want a Washington "good old boy" it would probably be best to elect some one who does know how to manipulate political controls.
Remember how much trouble Arnie got in during his first term ?
It was primarily due to not being familiar with the process, and as a result, in order to even remain in office he had to bend over backwards to please the opposition.
I'm not condemning Cain, nor am I excusing Arnie, I'm just putting my thoughts out for consideration.

Sponsor

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #35 on: Today at 03:09:39 AM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2011, 11:08:14 AM »
Here's a good one, remember earlier in this thread I posted the Iowa straw poll results ? (pg #2 )
Bachman won. Out of about 17,000 votes Romney got less than 700, finishing a miserable 7th place after campaigning since the beginning of the last primary season.
Perry on the other hand,also under 1,000 but since he wasn't on the ballot, in fact, he had not even confirmed he was running, and he still beat Romney purely on write in votes.
Here's how the MSM views it :   ::)
It seems to me, that by falsely promoting Romney, a noted RINO who instituted "MassCare", an alleged inspiration for ObamaCare, and signed Mass' permanent Assault weapon ban with out a fight, that, as with their hype of McCain in 08 the media are attempting to promote the one candidate who has the ability to lose to Obama.
In my opinion there is not enough money in the world to enable an Obama win, the only ones who can get Obama reelected are the Republicans.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/exclusive/despite-bachmann-success-real-gop-race-now-perry-130324604.html

By Beth Reinhard
National Journal

Until now, the biggest question looming over the 2012 Republican primary was who would emerge as the leading alternative to the nominal front-runner, Mitt Romney.

We now know the answer to that question: Rick Perry.

Sure, Perry jumped into the race only one day ago and needs to prove he's worthy of the national stage. Yes, Michele Bachmann is the one who boxed Tim Pawlenty out of the race with her triumph in the Iowa Straw Poll on Saturday.

But it is the governor of the great big state of Texas, not the Minnesota congresswoman, who poses the biggest threat to Romney from here on out. That's because Perry boasts that killer combination of assets: the power to grab hold of voters -- which Bachmann shares -- plus a concrete record of creating jobs. It's the rhetoric plus the results, the inspiration layered on top of the perspiration.

(RELATED: Governor Pawlenty vs. Candidate Pawlenty)

The void in Bachmann's resume was laid bare in Thursday's Fox News debate, when she cited the "Light Bulb Freedom of Choice Act'' as one of her biggest accomplishments. In an interview on Sunday with CNN's Candy Crowley, all she could point to was her education reform agenda as a state lawmaker in Minnesota.

"The Republican nominee and the next president of the United States is going to be Rick Perry or Mitt Romney,'' said Fred Malek, a top Republican money man who ran George H.W. Bush's 1992 campaign. "Michele Bachmann has struck a real chord on the issues important to conservatives, but what we need is a governor with proven record of job creation, deficit reduction, and other accomplishments.''

A member of the House has not been crowned a party nominee since James Garfield in 1880. Bachmann's victory in a mock, Midwestern election dominated by the fringes of the Republican Party only served to highlight her narrow appeal. In contrast, both Perry and Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, have won statewide elections with Democratic and independent votes.

(RELATED: Obama's economy—or not?)

Mounting anger with President Obama over the economy's woes makes it unlikely that voters will take another chance on a crowd-rousing lawmaker who lacks executive experience.

"Republicans feel that if we lose the election, we lose the country,'' said Alex Castellanos, a Republican strategist for George W. Bush who advised Romney's 2008 campaign. "We are not going to nominate somebody who has no chance of winning enough votes to defeat Barack Obama.''

The Romney-Perry showdown seemed unlikely months ago, but came to the fore in recent weeks as Pawlenty continued to fizzle and Perry lined up donors and strategists. Pawlenty's exit on Sunday and Perry's announcement on Saturday just made the two-man race official.

Bachmann defeated Pawlenty because she managed to make him look weak, a feat she is unlikely to engineer with the swaggering three-term governor of Texas.

(RELATED: President Obama's path to reelection narrows)

As for the rest of the field, few people outside of Jon Huntsman's campaign can envision his path to the nomination. Ron Paul is a cult figure, not a party standard-bearer. Rick Santorum beat expectations in the straw poll, but his main role in the race has been to needle the other candidates.

The next potential watershed in the rapidly changing race will be the debate sponsored by NBC News and Politico in Simi Valley, Calif., the first time Perry will be lined up next to his rivals on national television. Two more debates in two weeks, both in Florida, will keep the candidates on their toes.

"The real question for Perry is how he adjusts to being an official presidential candidate, because it's unlike anything else,'' said Republican strategist Jim Dyke. "It exposes candidates in ways they couldn't have fathomed or trained for. It's something you can't teach.''

Romney has already started pivoting toward Perry in recent days, emphasizing his success as a corporate executive above all else. Perry can't point to experience in the private sector. While Romney would never have wished for a challenger as potentially formidable as Perry, he will be a much tougher nominee in the general election if he is able to defeat Perry, just as Obama was strengthened by his epic primary battle with Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2008.

crusader rabbit

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2011, 01:25:18 PM »
I went for Perry, but with some misgivings.  He has a colorful past as something less than a conservative. Heck, he backed Al Gore, for gosh sakes.

But, converts are frequently the greatest zealots.

Now that he has had his Road to Damascus Moment I think we'd tend to see eye to eye on many topics. 

Plus, I think he is electable.
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Pathfinder

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2011, 05:34:58 PM »
I went for Perry, but with some misgivings.  He has a colorful past as something less than a conservative. Heck, he backed Al Gore, for gosh sakes.

But, converts are frequently the greatest zealots.

Now that he has had his Road to Damascus Moment I think we'd tend to see eye to eye on many topics. 

Plus, I think he is electable.

Let's hope it was a real moment and not one for show.

I agree on the electability, just don't know who he really is.
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twyacht

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2011, 06:40:07 PM »

Let's hope it was a real moment and not one for show.

I agree on the electability, just don't know who he really is.


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fullautovalmet76

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Re: Bachmann, Perry or Cain
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2011, 08:27:27 PM »
OK. You all know who I support but this thread is about three other candidates so I'll give you my take on them. I'll start with the one I like most of the three and go from there.

Herman Cain
I like his authenticity, he doesn't have that politician feel to him. I know that's completely subjective but a big part of this process are the subjective factors each of us decide is important to us. Another thing I like about him is has executive experience. The man knows how to come up with a vision and sell it to others. He has the right values to me. He is a social conservative as well as a fiscal conservative. Admittedly, I don't know much about him beyond the basic stuff that I have read in the media but what I have read I like.

Michelle Bachman
I like the fact she voted against raising the debt ceiling and voted against Obaminy Care. But based on her background as a lawyer who sued tax payers on behalf of the IRS, I question her core fiscal values as a conservative, wannabe libertarian. She also has voted consistently to take some of our civil rights away (Patriot Act). For me, when someone calls themselves a conservative I'm going to look at how they stand not just on the traditional issues that have defined what a conservative is but also issues that have typically been the domain of liberals. Michelle Bachman gives me pause when I use that yardstick.

Rick Perry
I really am concerned about this guy for several reasons. He ran Al Gore's campaign in Texas back in 1988. One doesn't get to that level being on the fence. I still believe he is a collectivist and I believe these convictions will be manifest should he become president. Then there is his attendance to the Bilderberg conference in 1997. For those of you who don't know this is a super-secret invitation only event. Many government officials from around the world, and business leaders from around the world, get together to discuss and form strategy on a global scale. The people who attend this conference are globalists who wish to diminish or eliminate national sovereignty. Again, fence sitters are not welcome there. They only invite those who are willing to drink from the cup of globalism. And let's not forget his foot dragging on putting a bill backon the calendar that would have made TSA groping a felony in Texas. When it finally got back on the calendar in the special session, enough house members had been contacted by the government to change their votes and the bill died. That one stinks...In short, "Slick" Rick Perry is an example of an establishment candidate we do not need. I know he says all the right things but I would encourage everyone to do their research; this goes double for me....

Thanks!
-FA

 

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