Bullet drop question

[Pecos Bill]

I apologize to m58 for being the one who got his thread on the Military Channel program off track but I was puzzled about the statement that  a faster bullet will impact higher on a target. So I'm starting this one. Mods if this is in the wrong place please move.

Let's see if I have this correct: given that I am using the SAME bullet from the SAME rifle sighted at a given distance if I fire the bullet from a rifle at, let's say, 2000 fps and at 2900 fps under the same conditions the 2900 fps shot will impact the target at a point higher than the shot at 2000 fps. Is this a correct statement for all ranges? Would this hold true for say 900 fps and 1200 fps from a handgun? The reason I ask this is I have observed that this is not always true at short range. I have observed that, at ranges of say 50 to 100 yds, that the slower bullet impacts higher than the faster bullet. I do understand about the effects of gravity on the path of a bullet and I do understand the theory that a faster bullet will not drop as much as a slower bullet over long distance do to time of flight, but would not recoil and muzzle lift have some effect on the bullet path do to barrel time?

I hope I've made my questions clear enough. I discussed this with a friend some years ago but we never came to a conclusion. Perhaps there are wiser heads here on the forum who can explain it for me.

Pecos

[Hazcat]

HMMMM, good question and I look forward to the discussion. 

[deepwater]

HMMMM, good question and I look forward to the discussion. 

surprising as it may seem... I was watching myth busters a few days ago (in Spanish too!) and they tested this theory out.. I mention this because they did a very good job of explaining it. I will see if I can find the episode on youtube..
deepwater

[deepwater]

surprising as it may seem... I was watching myth busters a few days ago (in Spanish too!) and they tested this theory out.. I mention this because they did a very good job of explaining it. I will see if I can find the episode on youtube..
deepwater

[Timothy]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bullet_trajectory.htm

This works for me...

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

I didn't watch the videos, but, yes, it would be different at close ranges.

Think of the sight line as a straight line...as it is...from the top of the sights to the target, say at 200yds.
Thing of the path of the bullet as an arc...a flat one at moderate ranges.

The bullet will start out bellow the sight line since the barrel is below that line.   The arc will take the bullet above the sight line relatively close to the muzzle and it will travel above the sight line until it drops below the sight line at the zero range.

For an example.   The M14 rifle with standard military issue ammo was zeroed at 200 yds.

To do this, we would sight the rifle so it was zeroed at 35yds.  This was the point where the arc crossed from below to abvove the sight line.  With that ammo it would drop below the sight line again at 200 yards.

So, the bullet following the arc was below the sight line from 0 to 35yds where it crossed to above the sight line where it stayed until it crossed below again at 200yds and from there on, it would be increasingly below the sight line.

Generally the part of the arc between 35 and 200 yrds is not a great distance above the sight line....the faster the bullet, the less it rises above the sight line.  The term Flat Shooting comes from this.  Also, the faster the bullet, the less it drops below the sight line over distance.

Hope that is clear?

P.S.  This is with the barrel level and horizontal to the ground.   Severe inclination or declination of the barrel would have and effect.   For instance. shooting straight down the bullet would always be "below" the sight line since there would be no arc and the path would also be a straight line.   Visualizing how the arc changes as the rifle is rotating to horizontal might give a better understanding of what is going on.

[tombogan03884]

The faster the bullet travels the less time gravity has to work on it.
Therefore it will hit higher.

[kmitch200]

I have observed that, at ranges of say 50 to 100 yds, that the slower bullet impacts higher than the faster bullet. I do understand about the effects of gravity on the path of a bullet and I do understand the theory that a faster bullet will not drop as much as a slower bullet over long distance do to time of flight, but would not recoil and muzzle lift have some effect on the bullet path do to barrel time?
Pecos

All else being equal, the faster bullet has less time for gravity to work on it...but that only comes into play once it leaves the muzzle.
Slower bullet = more barrel time. More time for the recoil forces to push the muzzle up - the real world you observed at your range.

Where that muzzle is pointed, the bore axis, and how that will affect your sight in range depends on how you hold the gun, fight or roll with recoil, etc.
Shooting out of a vice would eliminate the recoil forces and show the "true" bullet flight w/o the gun moving but what fun would that be?

[Pecos Bill]

I knew I hadn't phrased my question properly.

Leave sighted in range out of the question. I understand about a bullet crossing the line of sight in two places, "on the rise" and "on the drop".  Let's just say that we are firing at a 4x8 sheet of plywood at say 50, 100, 150, and 200 yds. and there is a sighting point painted on the target so that we will always shoot at the same point The gun is not locked into any device which holds it from moving. It matters not who is firing the gun but it is being held in a typical firing position by a shooter. Now I understand about the effects of gravity pulling a bullet down and about the parabolic curve etc. Explain why the faster will hit higher on the target than a slower bullet. This is real world stuff not theory, guys. I don't mean to be argumentative here I just can't reconcile theory with what I've seen. Have patience I can be obtuse at times. (Fancy enough statement for you TB?)  


Thanks for all the help anyway.

Pecos

[Hazcat]

Pecos,

I knew you were not talking about the Myth Busters type thing.  Simply that your personal experience was showing that a slow bullet and a fast bullet (same caliber and weight) reacted differently in the real world as compared to the article you read.

The theory about barrel time and recoil reaction is relevant.  How about 22 vs 22 magnum.  Really controls as well as possible for recoil.