Help- please, AR basics

[jaybet]

I know it's too much to take in, but this opinionated asshole is asking for advice.

I'm a pistol guy. LOVE my pistols. But an acquaintance insists I get an AR.
Rock River Arms... I can't spend a lot,  what's the deal? There are so many.

[fightingquaker13]

I would go to Classic Arms. They are selling Del-tons for between $650-$710. These are good rifles. I haven't heard a bad word about them. You will save yourself all the woes I have with my DPMS Sportical, which I paid about the same amount for. The rifles have the standard AR front sight (which you can co-witness with an optic if you want one). It has a front sling mount, a dust cover and the FA, though I really don't think the F/As are necessary, but its there if you want it. The receiver has a rail so you can mount a carrying handle or an optic. They are currently out of stock on the H-bar, but I think they are taking orders. At $710 its a freaking steal. I would buy one today if I had the money. For the $60 difference between that and the thin barreled model I think its worth the wait, though the thin barrel doesn't suck either.
Good luck.
FQ13

PS I asked about them on AR 15 armory. Here are the responses.
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Del-Ton-ARs-good-t125672.html

PPS Here's the url for Classic Arms
http://www.classicfirearms.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Del-ton

[alfsauve]

Jaybet,

There are so many models and variations.  Most are pretty good.   It all depends on what you want to do with it.   If it's just to join the AR club and you have no particular purpose, and not a lot of money, you can get a basic entry level model. in the $700-900 range.  FQ has a good suggestion for a quick and ready-to-go version.

For starters, if you have a purpose in mind, such as shooting in NRA National Match, or 3 gun or varmint shooting, or CQC, then you might want to list the features that are most important and do some comparison shopping.   First decision, do you want a old-school built in carry handle or a flat top.  (Most will tell you get the flat-top, that you can add a carry handle to the top rail if you want one.)  Then you need to make the impingement or piston decision.   Go with the original impingement design.  More aftermarket parts, more standard.   Piston driven ones aren't without their problems, too.

My first AR, long before the current craze was a "carry handle" model from Eagle Arms (one iteration of Armalite corporate history).  It's barrel is just a little to light weight and shots move a little when it gets hot.  But if I had to carry it 10miles+ a day the light weight is a plus.

NOW:  And what I'm getting 'round to, is that I built my second AR to get exactly what I wanted at a very low cost. 
YOU can do this too and have fun selecting the parts to meet your needs and budgets.

I bought a complete upper with the barrel I wanted.  Here's one similar, that's $390.  There are less expensive ones, but I wanted the heavy bull barrel.  http://www.galatiinternational.com/product/MDB20320.html

Then I bought a lower made by an up-and-coming local company, C3, that was on sale for $80. http://www.semperfiarms.com/store/product/AR15-Lowers/c3-defense-standard-lower.php
There are many companies that have lowers, stripped and assembled.   I just wanted a local name on my gun.   Parts kit, with trigger, and basic stock were less than $150.     So for about $650 I have a gun that retails in the $1,000+ range, plus I bought it over a 3 year period.   I don't have all the rails and tacticool stuff because I wanted a varmint AR.

You can do better, dollar-wise, for a basic model if you shop carefully.    Then if you like it and as funds become available you can do upgrades to better suit your shooting needs.

We'll help step you through the process, but there are tons of websites and forum posting that will step you through it.

[tombogan03884]

Jay, If this guy is pushing Rock River over any of the others he's an a hole.
I'm not saying Rock River is bad, they're not, but their no better than any other name brand , Stag, Olympic, Bushmaster etc. at least not at the entry level you are interested in, if you want to spend $7K on a Les Baer that's a different matter.
Don't buy more than the lower receiver and internal parts until you have have thought out every aspect of what best serves your needs.
What do you want it for ?
For precision you will want to go with a Rifle configuration, Home defense would be better served with a carbine.
You need to decide that because they use different size buffers and springs.
Do you and Maggie have arms long enough for the solid stock , or would some type of adjustable serve better ?
Even caliber, do you want cheaper centerfire plinking with surplus .223/ 5.56, or do you want to knock bears off your trash cans with .450 Bushmaster ?
Iron sights or optic ? This makes a difference because it is easier to set up an optic sight without the front sight post in the way, but you will need to consider back up / flip up sights .

[fightingquaker13]

Jay, If this guy is pushing Rock River over any of the others he's an a hole.
I'm not saying Rock River is bad, they're not, but their no better than any other name brand , Stag, Olympic, Bushmaster etc. at least not at the entry level you are interested in, if you want to spend $7K on a Les Baer that's a different matter.
Don't buy more than the lower receiver and internal parts until you have have thought out every aspect of what best serves your needs.
What do you want it for ?
For precision you will want to go with a Rifle configuration, Home defense would be better served with a carbine.
You need to decide that because they use different size buffers and springs.
Do you and Maggie have arms long enough for the solid stock , or would some type of adjustable serve better ?
Even caliber, do you want cheaper centerfire plinking with surplus .223/ 5.56, or do you want to knock bears off your trash cans with .450 Bushmaster ?
Iron sights or optic ? This makes a difference because it is easier to set up an optic sight without the front sight post in the way, but you will need to consider back up / flip up sights .

That latter point is key. BUIS are expensive. $80 and up a pop for good quality stuff. IMHO its better to go with a rifle that already has them (unless you get one with a free floated rail, but that's more $$$). S@W comes with a nice pair of flip up BUIS, and TW seems to like his. The fixed AR front sight does mean a high mount, for an optic, but damn I wish I had one. Just by a cheapmagpul back up buis for the rear, or for that matter slap on a $40 carry handle rear sight and youre good to go. Research first, there are lots of things to look at and I will tell you from experience to beware of false economy. But If you're not a DIY guy, and I'm not, whereas Tom and Alf are, be sure to buy a rifle that has as many of the features as you want stock. ARs are like cars. You can customize them as much as you want, but it better be a labor of love, because it ain't cheap and you'll never get your money back if  you sell it. If you like messing with guns and want to get the perfect one for you, great. If you just want to open the box and go to the range, make sure the one you buy has what you want on it.
FQ13

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[jaybet]

All good stuff guys, sounds like the same thing I would tell someone about a pistol. I'm thinking that it will really be to shoot and also to HAVE one because it's a very useful tool. Probably .223 because that's the classic and ammo is out there. A .308 would be nice but I have no pressing need.
Basic is what I'm thinking, although it would be nice to have a red dot or scope...maybe both eventually. I don't think it would be an HD piece...we're too dedicated to the handguns for that, and concerned about the neighbor's safety. But you never know when you'll have to start whittling down the BG's numbers at a distance.

The other factor is I'm in NJ, which dictates how much stuff I can have on it. Silly, but they've left us able to have functioning black rifles and have outlawed different types or combinations of furniture. Silly politicians. So I may buy locally - got a couple of good shops I trust.

[fightingquaker13]

Here's a cool used AR I found Jaybet. It has most of the bells and whistles, and its only $800. Just for your perusal (scroll up when it appears as there are several comments below the ad, mine included ) It really is a nice rig..
FQ13 who loves shopping for other people as I get to drool, but I don't have to write the check.

PS I hear DPMS Sporticals are all the rage this year. I've got one ready to go for $600.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/AR-sale-t125139.html&pid=1975997#entry1975997

[usmcdadx2]

FQ, just curious...what troubles did you have with your Sportical? I've got a LoPro which is damn near the same rifle and it has been rock solid.
jaybet be warned once you get one of these things you can't just leave them alone. I've got an Ace skeleton stock and a free float handguard on the way and I'm toying with building a 7.62x39 upper for it as well.

[tombogan03884]

FQ, just curious...what troubles did you have with your Sportical? I've got a LoPro which is damn near the same rifle and it has been rock solid.
jaybet be warned once you get one of these things you can't just leave them alone. I've got an Ace skeleton stock and a free float handguard on the way and I'm toying with building a 7.62x39 upper for it as well.

It's not the online AK he was drooling over up to the minute they put the AR in his hand 

[fightingquaker13]

It's not the online AK he was drooling over up to the minute they put the AR in his hand 

Actually its that I bought cheap. False economy will bite you in the ass every time. The rifle runs great. Its reliable and accurate. On that basis I love it. However, it has no BUIS and no forward sling mount. To solve this issue, I'm looking at two to five hundred bucks to fix it. The lack of a front sling mount is a travesty, it would have cost DPMS $5 to put one on, for me its $30 at a gunsmith. As far as the BUIS, they are about $80 a pop if you want quality stuff. I could put a front sight on my gas block, but there isn't enough real estate on the receiver rail to mount a rear buis and my eotech. That means a free floated hand rail to allow me to forward mount the optic, and have the rear BUIS, and again, thats $$$, about $150, just to get into the game. Its my own fault for letting myself get stampeded into a purchase, but like a lot of things, if you buy cheap, it costs you more to fix it than if you had just bought right the first time. As a range toy I have zero complaints, again DPMS makes a quality product. But that isn't what I bought it for. A SHTF rifle needs back up irons, and those are going to be spendy. Thats the source of my ire.
FQ13