Home Solar Power ??

[alfsauve]

Right off the Tax line.   It's a credit as opposed to an exemption or deduction.  $1 for $1 off your taxes. 

Put in a $30,000 solar system, get a tax credit of $9,000.    Or in my case $4,000 get $1,200 off.

To be specific on 2021 tax returns you fill out a 5695.  The rebate goes to 1040 Schedule 3 line 5.  That then goes to 1040 line 20 and is deducted from your Tax, line 16 to come up with your Total Tax line 24.   From there you deduct you tax contributions and the net is your refund, or what you still owe.

Trick is I don't think the acting president has signed it and I don't know when the 30% takes affect.  Probably 1/1/2023.

[Rastus]

Thanks.  I've really been wanting to get some kind of limited capacity system in.   

Keep us posted on what you end up with. 

[alfsauve]

The acting president signed the bill.   I tried to read some of the actual text and boy is it convoluted.   

<re IRS 1986 Code>

``(ii) in the case of any property the
                        construction of which begins before January 1,
                        2032, and which is placed in service after
                        December 31, 2021, 30 percent,

What the bill does is just modify the existing rebate by changing the wording to reflect 30% and the expiration date to 2034.  So it reads, I think, that the 30% is affective immediately.

With my new set of numbers I'm looking at 10yr payback to run just the dryer, freezer and fridge.  16 years if I go with LiFe batteries but they they have 10x of the life cycle of AGM and 7x over Gel.   Keep running numbers and looking at other dealers and options.

Baby steps.   First I need the meter box on the outside of the house replaced with a modern two compartment one.  This will make future mods to the electrical system easier.   My breaker box needs to be replaced.  It's rather dated and the wiring somewhat of a rats nest.   Maybe one of those fancy Leviton units with energy monitoring. 

There are all sorts of other energy savings provisions.  Plus some power companies offer rebates on heat pumps applications.    I used my heat pump rebate with GA Power years ago.  Had a new system installed, got heat pump and got a substantial rebate.  Then I switched the system to emergency, natural gas mode, which was cheaper, and never used the pump in the winter.

[Rastus]

Again, keep us posted on what you buy and why.  Retrofitting existing construction is expensive and a real pain.  Having good ideas to put into new construction is a lot cheaper. 

I wonder if a transfer switch to go to 100% solar would be covered by the tax credit...I bet so.  In my future new construction (hopefully starting late spring 2023 now) I plan to put in a propane stove, etc.  Part of that will be some propane lights for emergency use...maybe a propane fired instant hot water system that the solar could control for hardly any energy.

Have you heard about the heat pump water heaters that are being put into attics?  Someone I know has one...very pricey but it works great.  It helps to cool the attic and blows the chilled air back into the house.

[alfsauve]

Joined a Solar forum.  Working on one step at a time.

Micro-Inverters.   They're all the rage.  They, improve the overall efficiency of the solar panels.  One inverter per panel (they make 4 panel models, so works out to about $150/panel).   Then you feed this directly to the grid, since their output is 240Vac.  Not only do they monitor each panel independently, if a panel has a  shadow or trash on it, it doesn't drag down the other panels.   Good payback.  Small 1500W system can payback in ~5years.

Here's the rub.  There's no battery backup nor do they operate when the power is out.   In fact, they specifically shut down when the power goes out for safety reasons.  If you want battery backup then you add in a charger and batteries and another DC-AC inverters.  So I'm not going with mirco-inverters.

Investigated the fire shutdown code and it doesn't have to be automagic.   A manual switch, outside, clearly labeled will suffice.  I could get fancy and do something where heat sensors would trip it, but for now a manual switch, which I had planned to do anyway so I could disconnect them for maintenance.

The forum helped me with a question in that you have to match up the PV panel outputs with the inverter capability.  Some inverters are meant for light duty charging mostly consumer (read USB stuff) and need 12Vdc output panels.  Some are meant for bigger systems with multiple banks of panels in series putting out 250Vdc and other are in between needing 60-150Vdc from the panels.   That's where I'm at. 

Thinking of Sun Gold 6Kw 240 split phase inverter.  EG4 48V 100AH battery, maybe 2 but I could start with one to see how it works.  And the panels I'm toying with US made.  Many cheap choices out there which I'm betting are just that, cheap.  The biggest problem is shipping.  The batteries are $350ea to ship.  And most places only want to sell the solar cells by the pallet or crate.   I may have to get in touch with the ham community and do a group buy.

GA isn't exactly a hot bed of DIY solar retailers.  When I pull the trigger I may have to find someone making the trip from Dallas to Marietta willing to haul and additional 500# of stuff for me.   There is a retailer in Ft Myers where my BIL lives.

[Sponsor]

[alfsauve]

Since the 30% fed rebate is good for some years to come and the cost of shipping is so high AND, I'm not in a good location, I think Miss Kitty and I will put the solar project on hold for a while.  I worked up some spreadsheets showing both a true hybrid solar system and a battery backup with no PV solar cells. 

A battery-backup charged by the grid and kept on standby just for power outage use to run freeze and fridge, and maybe a few other minor things (no solar cells):

12V system with 3000W inverter $1,710 and will run 2.4 days
48V system with 3500W inverter $2,700 and will run 4.7 days


Add in the Solar Cells:

48V system with 6,000W inverter $4,250, payback in ~15years.  Will run appliances pretty much indefinitely.

All after rebates of course.

The issue, not having a good solar footprint,  is how much is the battery backup worth to me?   $1,000?  That'll impact the perceived payback.  We'll wait until 2023 to see what the industry does.



STOP THE PRESSES!!   I've found a DIY solar store in Savannah!  Maybe I'll sneakily plan to attend a match down there and then just "happen" to drop in the store with Miss Kitty before we return home.   

 

[Rastus]

Interesting.  Of the two, I like the 48V system.  In this example $1k for 2X performance is a no brainer. 

OK.  Question.  That 15 year payback was calculated on continuous use of the system to replace commercial power? 

[alfsauve]

Yes, the payback was calculate on running the freezer, fridge, clothes dryer, security lights and garage door opener.   These are items that are readily accessible, wiring wise.   I could run more but it would require more solar cells to keep the batteries charged, plus doing some recabling.   Note we only run the dryer one day a week, laundry day, so that skews you daily requirement.   Since I only have room for limited solar cells then I need to have enough battery to run the dryer for that day.  I can take all week to charge it back up.  This isn't an ideal situation.  That's why it's on hold for a while.    Right now I'm monitoring my household power with the Emporia monitoring system.

[alfsauve]

IN THE MEAN TIME.

Installed the Emporia electrical monitoring system in my circuit breaker box.   The most interesting thing I've found is the way the Dacor oven behaves.   This oven was acquired 10 years ago during renovation.  The interior designer picked it out and I hate it.  No door switch for the light, coils all on top which screws up baking and it uses the broiler coils to bring the oven up to temp for baking, which means it will burn anything you put in the oven before it reaches backing temp.

I knew Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) was a god send for motors and lighting.  In a crude sense, all oven used PWM by turning on the coils until desired temp was reached and them turning them off again until the temp was nn degrees below desired.  A crude example with a very large pulse width.  However, evidently, newer oven are pretty complex about their use of PWM.   Here's a timeline of my oven heating up to baking temp, then one complete cycle of maintaining temperature.  Just overly complicated for something that should be so much simpler.

What it means to my household?  Not much.  Just an interesting observation on how these things work these days.

[Rastus]

Interesting about the PWM.  I wasn't aware of that scheme.

I keep going back to a propane/natural gas heated oven in my thinking.  That will lower the solar demand over a fully electric dryer.  Also having a refrigerator/freezer powered by burning gas is an option I like.  If I ever really stop working and build a new house I'll have piping for propane for a stove, heat, lights, a dryer and a refrigerator/freezer along with a 1,000 gallon underground tank.   The lights will be limited and for emergency only and the refrigerator/freezer on unused standby for a long term emergency. 

I keep thinking EMP in the back of my head and how just having lights, a stove and refrigeration will be a tremendous boost...those items along should run for 2 years on a full 1,000 gallon propane tank.  Then having solar stored to avoid an EMP event that I'd pull out after the chance for another EMP has passed would be really good.