Author Topic: Pistol Caliber AR Build  (Read 5205 times)

Rastus

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Pistol Caliber AR Build
« on: February 17, 2019, 09:18:26 AM »
OK.  I just watched a Shooting Gallery episode where Mike Seeklander is extolling the pistol cartridge AR for home defense.  I think I want to build one. 

Suggestions on the build and the source parts are appreciated...especially sources.  I would like a 45 or better yet 10MM.  It may be the right thing for my wife to carry on the side by side.

I'm wanting to build one that has the same dimensions and controls as the standard AR so there is no learning curve.  I want light and I want two uppers.  One with a street legal barrel and the a second upper SBR with the paperwork.  Gotta run like a champ without failures.....

Les, I know you and Bill can chime in on this plus whoever else is out there that wants to (even you Tom I know you gotta check this every now and then).
 
Right now I'm intrigued with these guys for the handguards and maybe the grip:
https://brigandarms.com/





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Big Frank

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2019, 05:59:14 PM »
Some of their handguards look good. Their most expensive one is $414.00. That's over 3/4 of the price of my Colt AR. Ouch. I like the looks of the less expensive ones better but I'll stick with cheaper and heavier.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

les snyder

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2019, 09:35:29 PM »
Rastus... a couple of comments... a traditional blow back pistol caliber carbine has more recoil than a 5.56, just a lot less muzzle blast...I think a 10mm blow back would be a problem do to the high pressure and danger of rupturing a case on extraction... I have 3, 10.5" ARs configured in 5.56, and for home defense it would be my choice over a pistol caliber in terms of reliability... mine are fitted with a linear comp (LeVang) that pushes a lot of blast forward...that being said if you decide to down grade to a 9mm, I've been playing with an AR9 for about 3 years now

Rudy Koester of Macon Armory makes .45 and 10mm that are IIRC a locked breech design

my AR9 for USPSA use is a Glock format New Frontier Armory billet lower with a RRA trigger, the upper/barrel/fore end is a Palmetto State Armory with a NFA bolt with an AR style extractor,

PSA has a forged Glock format lower a friend uses, and would be my choice for a "do over" as well as a complete PSA upper and their gen4 bolt with AR extractor..

my Colt style with magazine well adapter unit on my SBR broke the last round bolt hold open after only two lock backs... my competition Glock format does not have LRBHO... the Glock magazines feed directly into the chamber from a single cartridge release where the Colt style lowers feed from a double side feed magazine and have an integral feed ramp... I recommend the Glock format

if you decide on the AR PCC I can probably help you on specific questions... please feel free to ask

Les


Big Frank

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2019, 10:37:53 PM »
I just watched a bunch of videos and the Macon Armory .45 DI upper looks like it's softer-shooting and more controllable than a 9mm blowback, even on full-auto.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

Rastus

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2019, 07:12:31 AM »
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Les, I'm thinking 10MM because we have bears and coyotes at the vacation place and my wife had 1/2 dozen food tablets called Papillons she raises and shows. 

My wife appreciates the lack of muzzle blast...at least that's what I am thinking.  Maybe I am overthinking this and I'm looking for something light she can handle better so...maybe 10 is out and 9 is in....I dunno.  As far as the 5.56 we have several she can go to with an AAC M2000 to make it nicer to shoot.  The one thing I do know is I want to keep the controls the same as the standard AR so neither of us gets confused when we pick it up.

Heck, I guess I need to go to a shop and start looking at them to get oriented and to get her involved.  Thanks for the help...I'm headed over to Macon Armory website now.  I checked the Macon website...wow it's nice.  So I'm liking that 8-1/2" 10MM upgrade...pricey...especially since I'll need to get a can for it.....
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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:48:48 PM »

les snyder

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2019, 08:38:24 AM »
I had a nice 1/2 hour conversation with Rudy, and bought my mag well adapter from him, but at the time I couldn't talk him into making a rotating bolt 9mm..

I talked with a good friend at SOCOM last night... he is a vocal proponent of .300BLK for home defense... I guess the dark side of SF has switched to .300BLK for some of their entry guns

in a MK18, 10.3" barrel, it would give you a reliable platform, upgrade the bullet weight and mitigate some of the velocity loss of a 5.56... you might think about it

Big Frank

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2019, 03:52:54 PM »
A 300 BLK with the heavy subsonic bullets it was designed for with a can it would be nice and quiet. Depending on the barrel length and what ammo you use, muzzle energy will probably be in the .45 ACP +P to .357 Magnum range.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

PegLeg45

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2019, 05:53:52 PM »
A 300 BLK with the heavy subsonic bullets it was designed for with a can it would be nice and quiet. Depending on the barrel length and what ammo you use, muzzle energy will probably be in the .45 ACP +P to .357 Magnum range.

From what I've read, 200gr and up .300BLK subsonics are in the medium to upper end of the .45 ACP +P range in muzzle energy (depending on mfg).
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nosimij

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2019, 12:03:59 AM »
 8)

Just hanging out and watching this thread.  I have a 45 Highpoint carbine, no comments please, It delivers the mail and has not had a functional issue that can be blamed on it yet. my reloads on the other had is a different conversation.  Shooting the 45 ACP through the 16in barrel is soft and actually quite with little felt recoil.  Only a 9 round mag and not a standard.  I have taken an Ohio White Tail with it but missed one (operator error I am sure) the next year so I went back to the 12GA.  They are now making a 10mm.  Do not count them out completely. Would be better with a larger cap mag. 

I am thinking about a PCC top end for an AR.  Actually debating that vs 300 in either rifle or pistol. So I am wanting to watch this thread.  At home defense distance all 3 would do the job.  I kind of like the 16in barrel 45 because it actually is very quite and little flash to go with it.

Big Frank

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Re: Pistol Caliber AR Build
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2019, 12:33:31 AM »
I saw a ballistics chart that showed Double Tap 300 AAC Blackout with a Sierra Matchking 240 grain with 561 ft/lbs ME at 1025 fps. But it looks like they quit making it. That's 12 ft/lbs less that the last .45 ACP +P ammo I bought which is actually more powerful than some .357 Magnum ammo.

Remington makes a 220 grain 300 BLK load with 503 ft/lbs at the muzzle, but Midway was selling Remington UMC 220 grain with 539 ft/lbs. I think they quit making that one. I've seen .357 Magnum loads listed very close to that, like the 158 grain Gold Dot at 535 ft/lbs. CorBon had a 240 grain 300 BLK with 533 ft/lbs. That's only a 2 ft/lb difference but I think they quit making it.

There's a lot of variation in the power of different loads with the same bullet weight and I honestly can't tell you who's making what at the moment. But there are/were 220 and 240 grain 300 BLK loads ~= in power to some .357 Magnum loads, but not the most powerful .357 loads. There are a lot of 300 BLK loads under 500 ft/lbs too.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

 

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