Author Topic: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"  (Read 1265 times)

Big Frank

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.45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« on: September 19, 2021, 11:42:10 PM »
Some people still keep calling the .45 Colt ".45 Long Colt" but there was never a .45 Long Colt or .45 Short Colt. Yes, that's still a pet peeve of mine. They're non-existent things like assault weapons. We don't like it when liberal democrats use incorrect terminology relating to guns, so why is it okay for us to do it?  There is a .45 Smith & Wesson AKA .45 Schofield caliber that the army used for awhile alongside .45 Colt revolvers. Less than 9,000 Schofield revolvers were made from 1875-1878, so the .45 Smith & Wesson, or Schofield, cartridge shouldn't have been much of a problem to deal with. But .45 Long Colt is supposedly an unofficial designation some army quartermasters gave the .45 Colt, for some unknown reason. Maybe it was because you can also fire the shorter cartridge in the Colt revolvers, even though that's not what it was made for. So, if those two calibers are the .45 Long and Short Colt cartridges...

Here's a picture of a ".45 Long Colt" with a 250 grain bullet and a ".45 Short Colt" with a 230 grain bullet. I tried to match the size of the pictures before I merged them, to make the most accurate side by side comparison I could. I just realized that the ".45 Short Colt" was really a .45 Short & Weak and it was created 115 years before the .40 Short & Weak. :o Boom! Mind blown. I never made the connection before. And the term .45 Long Colt wasn't used to differentiate the .45 Colt from the .45 ACP as some people think. Each caliber has it's own name, and Automatic Colt Pistol, ACP or Auto doesn't sound the same as just plain COLT anyway. But even if there was a reason for some army quartermasters to use the unofficial designation, .45 Long Colt, that reason went away in 1892 when the army quit using the ".45 Short Colt", .45 Smith & Wesson, .45 Schofield revolvers and ammo. It's been 129 years since some people in the army quit unofficially calling the .45 Colt by the wrong name. I think it's well past time for everyone else to, also.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

tombogan03884

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2021, 07:51:33 AM »
The name was changed to avoid confusion with 45 Automatic Colt Pistol. and 45 Semi rimmed.
Same way they changed the name  of 30 WCF.
As for .40, there's nothing "short" or "weak" about it.
If you want 10 mm performance buy a 10 mm.

Majer

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2021, 04:09:40 PM »
Many years ago Mike Venturino wrote an article about the .45 Colt,In it he showed a picture of a box of Colt branded ammo that was labeled .45 LONG COLT. He at that time said if it was good enough for the manufacturer to call it LONG Colt, then it was good enough for him and for people to not get their panties in a bunch over it.  ;D ;D
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tombogan03884

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2021, 05:53:14 PM »
If you bought a box of 45's, since even the 1873 was still common, whether you wanted ACP or the long ones.

alfsauve

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2021, 10:01:17 AM »
Wrong they may be but S&B Wildwest, Armscor Cowboy and Selway Armory all use the "Long" designation.
Will work for ammo
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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:00:45 AM »

tombogan03884

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2021, 01:29:07 PM »
I think it's a riot.
Some Jack Ass gets all butt hurt about clips vs Mags, or "Long " Colt.
But you still call your 30 WCF a 30/30 because Marlin didn't want to put "Winchester" on their guns.

Big Frank

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 03:03:02 PM »
The name was changed unofficially used by some people to avoid confusion with 45 Automatic Colt Pistol. and 45 Semi rimmed .45 Schofield, 36 years before the M1911 in .45 ACP was adopted.
Same way they changed the name  of 30 WCF.
As for .40, there's nothing "short" or "weak" about it.
If you want 10 mm performance buy a 10 mm.

And the .40 S&W certainly IS short and weak compared to its parent cartridge.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

J. Kennedy-ar154me

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2021, 03:11:09 PM »
Don't mind me.
The time for action is upon us and the enemy is at our gates. Let us not allow them one more inch of advancement but instead throw them through the gates of Hell.

Big Frank

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2021, 03:31:43 PM »
Wrong they may be but S&B Wildwest, Armscor Cowboy and Selway Armory all use the "Long" designation.

I know a lot of companies do but it's usually not the major American ammo companies doing it.

There is a possible reason for .45 Long Colt ammo to actually exist if anyone wants to standardize the cartridge and chamber dimensions. For example, I have some .45 Colt +P ammo that's only supposed to be fired in T/C Contenders, Ruger Blackhawks and Super Blackhacks. If someone wanted to call that ammo .45 Long Colt and get the higher pressure SAAMI approved, great. If someone blew up their 125 year old antique with it after reading the warning that it was FOR MODERN FIREARMS CHAMBERED IN .45 LONG COLT ONLY!!!, that's their problem. Which might be avoided if .45 Long Colt was slightly longer than .45 Colt, a la .454 Casull.

And there is also a possible reason for a .45 Short Colt cartridge to exist. If conversion cylinders were made for .45 ACP revolvers to use shortened .45 Colt cases someone would buy it. Maybe people with M1917 Revolvers that don't like using half moon clips or moon clips. With .45 Colt brass readily available, needing only to be trimmed to length before loading, it would be a cheaper proposition than buying .45 Auto Rim from the few companies in the world making it. Have you ever tried finding .45 Auto Rim ammo in your LGS? They're more likely to have .45 Colt ammo and empty brass.

So there's room to grow the .45 Colt family Long and Short but for now, as there always has been, there's only one .45 Colt caliber.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

Big Frank

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Re: .45 "Long Colt" and .45 "Short Colt"
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2021, 03:44:00 PM »
I forgot to mention that most .45 ACP caliber revolvers are bored big enough for .454 caliber bullets, not just .451 or .452. So not only would a ".45 Short Colt" conversion cylinder work in those guns, it would most likely be more accurate than it is with the .45 ACP ammo it's currently capable of using. I planned on posting all this a day or two after I started this thread but things don't always happen according to plan.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

 

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