Author Topic: F-104 Starfighter and U-2 reconaissance aircraft  (Read 47 times)

Big Frank

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F-104 Starfighter and U-2 reconaissance aircraft
« on: May 03, 2025, 02:24:25 AM »
How are these 2 aircraft related? If you don't know, check this out.

F-104

The Lockheed XF-104 Starfighter was a single-engine, high-performance, supersonic interceptor prototype for a United States Air Force (USAF) series of lightweight and simple fighters. Only two aircraft were built; one aircraft was used primarily for aerodynamic research and the other served as an armament testbed, both aircraft being destroyed in accidents during testing. The XF-104s were forerunners of over 2,500 production Lockheed F-104 Starfighters.

The XF-104 had a radical wing design. Most supersonic jets use a swept or delta wing. This allows a reasonable balance between aerodynamic performance, lift, and internal space for fuel and equipment. However the most efficient shape for high-speed, supersonic flight had been found to be a small, straight, mid-mounted, trapezoidal wing of low aspect ratio and high wing loading. The wing was extremely thin, with a thickness-to-chord ratio of only 3.4%. The leading edges of the wing were so thin (0.016 in/0.41 mm) and so sharp that they presented a hazard to ground crews, and protective guards had to be installed during ground operations. The thinness of the wings meant that fuel tanks and landing gear had to be contained in the fuselage. The hydraulic actuators driving the ailerons were only one inch (25 mm) thick to fit into the available space and were known as Piccolo actuators because of their resemblance to this musical instrument. The wings had electrically driven leading and trailing edge flaps to increase lift at low speed. The XF-104 did not feature the Boundary Layer Control System of the production aircraft.

The XF-104 featured an unusual downward-ejecting Stanley B seat. It was feared that contemporary ejection seat designs would not have enough explosive power to clear the high "T" tail assembly. In the event of the seat not firing, it was possible to manually release the lower fuselage hatch and then exit the aircraft via gravity. The F-104 series aircraft would later convert to upward-ejecting seats but the fuselage hatch was retained as a useful maintenance feature.

U-2

It was thought that an aircraft that could fly at 70,000 feet (21,300 m) would be beyond the reach of Soviet fighters, missiles, and radar. Another Air Force officer, John Seaberg, wrote a request for proposal in 1953 for an aircraft that could reach 70,000 feet (21,300 m) over a target with 1,500 nmi (1,700 mi; 2,800 km) of operational radius. The USAF decided to solicit designs only from smaller aircraft companies that could give the project more attention. Under the code name "Bald Eagle", it gave contracts to Bell Aircraft, Martin Aircraft, and Fairchild Engine and Airplane to develop proposals for the new reconnaissance aircraft. Officials at Lockheed Aircraft Corporation heard about the project and decided to submit an unsolicited proposal. To save weight and increase altitude, Lockheed executive John Carter suggested that the design eliminate landing gear and not attempt to meet combat load factors for the airframe. The company asked Clarence "Kelly" Johnson to come up with such a design. Johnson was Lockheed's best aeronautical engineer responsible for the P-38 and the P-80. He was also known for completing projects ahead of schedule, working in a separate division of the company, informally called the "Skunk Works".

Johnson's design, named CL-282, was based on the Lockheed XF-104 with long, slender wings and a shortened fuselage. The design was powered by the General Electric J73 engine and took off from a special cart and landed on its belly. It could reach an altitude of 73,000 feet (22,300 m) and had a 1,600 mi (1,400 nmi; 2,600 km) radius. The reconnaissance aircraft was essentially a jet-powered glider. In June 1954, the USAF rejected the design in favor of the Bell X-16 and the modified B-57. Reasons included the lack of landing gear, use of the J73 engine instead of the more proven Pratt & Whitney J57 used by the competing designs, and not using multiple engines, which the USAF believed to be more reliable. General Curtis LeMay of Strategic Air Command (SAC) walked out during a CL-282 presentation, saying that he was not interested in an airplane without wheels or guns.

The rest of U-2 history is... well, it's history. But what does it have to do with the XF-104 Starfighter? The U-2 was based on an XF-104 fuselage, stretched from 49' 2" to 63" to hold all the cameras and other equipment. The wingspan was stretched ~4.7 times from 21' 11" to 103". The wing area increased more than 5 times the size, from 196 sq ft to 1,000 sq ft. The height increased from 13' 6' to 16'. The stubby little wings on F-104s are so short, they're about the same length as my arm span. The 103' wingspan of the U-2 seems more incredible once you've seen an F-104 up close and touched it. A guy I used to work with worked on F-104s in the Air force. He said they were full of vacuum tubes. They were built in the '50s, before modern avionics using integrated circuits and computerized everything. The pictures are of an XF-104 and an F-104C compared to the U-2. The scale is as close as I was able to estimate it.
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Rastus

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Re: F-104 Starfighter and U-2 reconaissance aircraft
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2025, 08:09:12 AM »
I never knew that.
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Big Frank

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Re: F-104 Starfighter and U-2 reconaissance aircraft
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2025, 07:55:43 PM »
I never knew that.

I knew I couldn't have been the only one. Kelly Johnson, who was educated 3 1/2 miles from my house at Flint Junior College (now Mott Community College) and the University of Michigan was one smart cookie. He figured out how to modify an existing airframe to once again bring a project in under time and under budget. Besides the first production aircraft to exceed Mach 3, he also produced the first fighter capable of Mach 2, the United States' first operational jet fighter, as well as the first fighter to exceed 400 mph, and many other contributions to various aircraft. He contributed to the design of the following Lockheed aircraft:

    Model 9D Orion, First airliner with retractable landing gear, faster than any known military aircraft of the time. Won 1937 Harmon Trophy.
    Model 10 Electra, flown by Amelia Earhart on her ill-fated around-the-world expedition in 1937. First aircraft to perform round-trip commercial flight over Atlantic Ocean.
    Model 12 Electra Junior, upgraded version of Model 10. Used to prove wing deicing using engine exhaust, as well as testing of twin-engine aircraft aboard aircraft carriers. Used by British intelligence to spy on pre-war Nazi Germany. Won 1937 Bendix Trophy.
    Model 14 Super Electra Upgrade variant of Model 10. In 1938, completed a world-record flight of 15,441 mi (24,850 km).
    Model 18 Lodestar, competitor to famous DC-3. Similar operating cost, superior performance, smaller passenger capacity.
    PV-1 Ventura, militarized version of Model 18. Would often lead B-24 bomber formations, due to being equipped with its own search radar unit. Used in both Pacific and European theater, including bombing raids on Germany, and hunting enemy submarines.
    P-38 Lightning, the first fighter to exceed 400 mph (640 km/h; 350 kn), and the aircraft which killed Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Holds the record for the longest interception mission of World War II.
    Constellation family, first family of pressurized airliners. Used in various military roles, including transporting President Eisenhower, and General MacArthur.
        L-049 Constellation First version of Constellation, first four engine aircraft produced by Lockheed. Upon its first flight, the chief test pilot remarked, "This machine works so well that you don't need me anymore!"
            L-149 Constellation, designation given to L-049 aircraft refitted with a larger fuel capacity.
            C-69 Constellation, military transport version of the Constellation. Only one served during World War II, as a troop and VIP carrier.
            L-649 Constellation, improved L-049 which included overhead sleeping berth, as well as a removable cargo bay, the "Speedpak".
                L-749 Constellation, improved L-649. Larger fuel capacity, strengthened landing gear, and eventually weather radar.
                    C-121/R7O/R7V Constellation, military version of L-749. Used as radar warning AWACS aircraft. President Dwight Eisenhower and General Douglas MacArthur both used the C-121A as their personal VIP transports. Also used as a freighter.
                    PO-1W/WV-1 Warning Star, airborne early warning (AEW) variant of the C-121, used to supplement the Distant Early Warning Line. EC-121s were also used for intelligence gathering.
                    L-1049 Super Constellation, stretched version of the Constellation, modified into several military variants.
                            PO-2W/WV-2/WV-3/EC-121 Warning Star. AEW variant, used along with picket ships to warn of incoming Soviet bomber attacks.
                            YC-121F/R7V-2 Constellation, experimental turboprop military transport.
                        L-1649 Starliner, last model of the Lockheed Constellation line. Powered by four Wright R-3350 TurboCompound engines.
    F-80 Shooting Star, the first successful American jet fighter. First west-to-east Atlantic crossing by single-engined jet.
    T-33 and TV-2, trainer versions of F-80.
    P2V Neptune, anti-submarine bomber. Temporarily kept aboard aircraft carriers to use as a stop gap, one use, nuclear bomber. Incapable of landing on aircraft carrier after launch.
    XF-90, prototype penetration fighter. First USAF jet with an afterburner and the first Lockheed jet to fly supersonic.
    F-94 Starfire, first operational USAF fighter equipped with an afterburner and the first jet-powered all-weather fighter to enter combat.
    X-7, testbed for ramjet engines and missile guidance technology. Dropped from B-52 and assisted by rocket on initial flight phase, exceeded Mach 4.
    F-104 Starfighter, first Mach 2 fighter to enter service. With its GE J79 engine, it won the 1958 Collier Trophy for its Lockheed and GE technical achievement.
    F-117A Nighthawk, first operational stealth aircraft.
    C-130 Hercules, turboprop military transport. Longest continuous production run of any military aircraft in history. Over 40 models serving in at least 60 nations.
    U-2, high altitude intelligence gathering aircraft.
    Blackbird family: A-12, YF-12, SR-71, M-21, and D-21. First family of operational Mach 3 aircraft. Composed almost entirely of titanium. The CIA M-21 was capable of launching a Mach 3 drone, known as the D-21. The YF-12 interceptor version was capable of launching a Mach 4 version of the AIM-47 Falcon missile, capable of hitting bombers flying at extremely low altitude. Johnson's second Collier Trophy (1963).
    JetStar/C-140, first dedicated business jet to enter service.

He also helped to design the Lockheed AQM-60 Kingfisher a decade before the famous SR-71. The Kingfisher was a highly successful single-engine Mach 4.3-capable ramjet aircraft composed mainly of steel, which was used to test American air defenses against nuclear missiles.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

Big Frank

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Re: F-104 Starfighter and U-2 reconaissance aircraft
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2025, 02:13:52 AM »
The wings went from this on the F-104, to 1,000 square feet on the U-2. That's what blows my mind more than anything about it.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

PegLeg45

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Re: F-104 Starfighter and U-2 reconaissance aircraft
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2025, 11:59:47 AM »
I never knew that.

Same here....I knew both aircraft from aerospace science classes in HS, but apparently this was ever brought up....if it was, I missed it.  8)
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Re: F-104 Starfighter and U-2 reconaissance aircraft
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