Minnesota ICE Involved Shooting

[alfsauve]

Churches are hesitant to carry through with criminal charges as part of Christian Forgiveness.   Not that they won't but generally it's bad optics.  Locally the United Methodist Bishop didn't take out Theft by Conversion charges against a former employee because  of the bad press and contentiousness it would have created.   In the end the conference broke even financially and were seen by the public as taking the higher road.

[MikeBjerum]

I never heard of a narthex before. I just learned something, so I guess the day wasn't a total loss.

Narthex = Entry area between outside and the nave. May be open to the nave, may be separated by a curtain/curtain wall, or may have doors between the two areas. The colder the climate the less open between the narthex and nave.

Nave = Area where the congregation is gathered for worship. Where the pews or chairs for attendees are.

Transept and Transept Aisle = In a church building that is shaped like a cross, this is the area that forms the cross beam. Some people will refer to the bump outs as wings. These "wings" are connected by the transept aisle - The aisle that crosses the front of the naive from side to side.

Sanctuary = Historically this was the area, often a curtained room, behind the altar. However, over the centuries it became the area containing the altar. In many churches there will be a rail, low wall, or kneeler with a rail separating the naive from the sanctuary. See my photo and you will see the communion rail that separates the two areas. The designation change came because the areas behind the altar, where only priests entered, was omitted from churches.

Today very few people use the term naive. Most congregations refer to the entire worship area as the sanctuary. I have even noticed that the Catholic Church is making the switch. Also, the term narthex is becoming less and less common. It isn't dependent on architecture, but more churches are utilizing this area for gathering and social activities before and after services. Also, changing away from terms like sanctuary and narthex to gathering space, auditorium, entry, fellowship space, are more inviting to younger generations.

[Rastus]

Churches are hesitant to carry through with criminal charges as part of Christian Forgiveness.   Not that they won't but generally it's bad optics.  Locally the United Methodist Bishop didn't take out Theft by Conversion charges against a former employee because  of the bad press and contentiousness it would have created.   In the end the conference broke even financially and were seen by the public as taking the higher road.

I think that's fine with with a repentant criminal.  The law was established and all it can do is convict us.  There is no grace under the law. 

Unrepentant?  There is a reason for the law and established authority.  The law wields the sword for a reason.

[MikeBjerum]

The Church can still show forgiveness and mercy while allowing the government to do its job. By allowing the courts to handle the inappropriate and illegal aspects of the actions, the Church is not seeking vengeance. They are letting the government, which is also a part of God's plan, to do what governments do to keep us all safe.

The negative, and questionable Christiona attitude, comes in if the Church files a lawsuit seeking damages. If they take it upon themselves to go to court to seek retribution rather than working it out directly with Lemon.

[MikeBjerum]

Back where we started on page one of this drift: Pincus has fallen completely off the crazy train. He is supporting defunding of ICE, getting rid of all the heads of DHS, CBP, ICE, and Pres. Trump. Over on facey he posted a video he made during the Summer of Love concerning the lack of wisdom to carry when going to these "protests," and then he goes off in full support of Alex Pretti and his choice to carry as an agitator, strapping on knowing he was going to agitate.

RP accused me of being a "bootlicker" and "bowing to the powers," over my comment that Good and Pretti both crossed the line when they inserted themselves in the operation and interfered with the officers. As he is still ranting about the old, and recently corrected, comments that Pretti was carrying illegally. He will not back down on misstatements that have been officially corrected.

Maybe we should start a poll about who he wants to sleep with tonight - Ilhan Omar or Giggles Harris. Based on his comments I know 100% he did not vote for Pres. Trump, so which obscure candidate did he vote for, did he not vote, or did he actually vote for Harris. We all know he is a firm believer in the Second Amendment being heavily regulated with background checks, and education for ownership and use.

[Sponsor]

[Pathfinder]

Churches are hesitant to carry through with criminal charges as part of Christian Forgiveness.   Not that they won't but generally it's bad optics.  Locally the United Methodist Bishop didn't take out Theft by Conversion charges against a former employee because  of the bad press and contentiousness it would have created.   In the end the conference broke even financially and were seen by the public as taking the higher road.

I'm going to take a Kuyperian view here. According to Scripture, the church has a sphere of influence/responsibility (see Ecclesiology 101 below). The civil government has its sphere of influence/responsibility (wield the sword of justice against evil doers internal and external). Trouble always happens when one entity leaves its sphere and meddles in the other, or fails to fulfill its mission. That is the case in MN. And the church does not need the permission of the public to behave according to Scripture. They are the mission field for the church.

Ecclesiology 101

The role of the church is to:
1. glorify God
2. Provide a safe environment for believers to gather and glorify God
3. Discipleship/training of the believers
4. I've forgotten this one

[Rastus]

Christ provide an example by chasing the money changers out of the temple.  How much more God-hating paid disrupters?

[Rastus]

I don't think Pincus is relevant.  He had a gig and he was an engaging guy....for a time.  Time is up?

[Big Frank]

I may have watched part of a Pincus video once, but I almost certainly never read anything he posted. If I did it had no impact. Everything I've heard about him sounds like he supports the Second Amendment, except he thinks it's okay for the government to infringe upon it.   Is he pro-gun or anti-freedom? He should pick a side and stay with it.

[MikeBjerum]

I don't think Pincus is relevant.  He had a gig and he was an engaging guy....for a time.  Time is up?

I will go out on a limb and say that he lost all relevance and respect from members here when he moderated one section. It was his way or the highway, and he deleted more posts than I could even think of making. He accelerated his fall from there.