Another Noob question

[Rob10ring]

On my high horse again,  >:(there is double action and there is single action and there is even a tri-action.

Didn't the Korean Daewoo pistols that Kimber imported claim to be tri-action?

[PegLeg45]

I hate you, and your Brother in law to, (To para phrase from the Wizard of Oz)

Well, at least it'll give Obama a short rest........

[Big Frank]

Didn't the Korean Daewoo pistols that Kimber imported claim to be tri-action?

I never knew Kimber imported them but the "Tri-Action" Daewoo DP51 had 3 modes of operation, SA, DA, and Fast Action.

Cylinder & Slide makes a Safety Fast Shooting System that converts a High Power or 1911 to operate with a similar fast action mode. On any of these 3 pistols, Daewoo included, you cock the hammer then press it forward. As soon as you touch the trigger the hammer pops back to the cocked position and you fire it single action.

There are several pistols that aren't typical SA, DA, or DAO. Para's LDA a good example. The slide movement pre-cocks or half-cocks it so the "double-action" trigger pull is lighter. It's more than SA but not quite DA, since the trigger only does half of the cocking. I guess it's a 1-1/2 action. Many striker-fired pistols that claim to be DA are actually in the same category of something in between SA and DA. If they were truly DA you could keep pulling the trigger to dry fire it without racking the slide to re-cock or pre-cock it.

[m25operator]

I really can't let this one go, the argument makes no since. The ACTION is how a firearm operates, and loads, not the way the trigger works, most triggers work the same way, you press them to the rear ( after cocking in one way or another, and there is a bang afterward, some shotguns have a release trigger, you pull it and hold it, then release when you want the shot to break, what do you call that? then there are electronic triggers, basically micro switches that operate a solenoid to hit the firing pin or directly send a charge to the primer). Bolt action, lever action, break open, falling block, rolling block, pump action, also known as a slide action, single action, double action, these all need a trigger to fire, but the trigger is not a part of the description of operation.

Single Action: Pulling the trigger does ONE thing : if the hammer has been cocked, it will release the hammer. Trigger pull is light, short, and consistant between first and subsequent shots.  But does not this take 2 actions on the part of the shooter, cock the hammer and then pull the trigger?


The double action: 1 definition, pulling the trigger will cock and fire the firearm, if loaded with cartridges. As you mentioned, it cocks the hammer and fires, to me that is a single action, 1 operation to the trigger fires the cartridge. At least in a revolver.

Now in a Modern DA, revolver, as aforementioned, you can cock the hammer and pull the trigger, or just pull the trigger and it go's bang both ways. 2 ways of discharging a round.

Now DAO, why do they have the misnomer of ONLY, double action ONLY, if the the single action is not available? Since a single press to the trigger will end in a fired  round.  Seems to me that the other action has more than one method of operating, hmmm. Why is the other revolver called a double action?  Call it a double action, when it can be cocked and fired, or pull the trigger and it indexes the cylinder and fires, but if it can only be trigger fired, it is a double action only? I will try to find the early advertisements of the double action revolver, which explains this.

Now lets confuse it some more, the DA/SA, once loaded, a single press to the trigger will be a long slow pull that cocks the hammer and lets it go, after that the SAME,  press to the trigger will discharge the round from a pre-cocked hammer. This is why I prefer the term trigger cocking as applied to double action only.

I understand this is semantics, but to me are important. The term DAO, is not descriptive of how it works. To me you are saying this is the way it is, but is it not better described by my explanations.

Now, I too am an NRA instructor, personal defense, firearm safety and basic pistol marksmanship, the NRA manual does not go into this in a detailed manner as far as action types. And I teach my description of action types like I have described in this conversation.

I am also a gunsmith, and action types mean a lot to me in my profession. Clear, concise applications of which firearm I'm doing work on.

[Big Frank]

The gunsmithing classes I had said the definitions of SA and DA were what I said. It refers to the action of the TRIGGER, not the FIREARM action types. But I give up. You're right and SIX BILLION OTHER PEOPLE ARE WRONG.    Please accept our apologies. I just hope your students are able to communicate with the rest of the world in your language.

[Sponsor]

[m25operator]

6 Billion people would be nice, but hard to get, but 10--20 DRTV'ers will suffice.  The current descriptions of DA/SA do not adequately describe what a firearm is capable of. Throwing these loose terms out does not benefit anyone.

If it can be fired by pulling the trigger only, and you call it double action only, yet the same pistol described as  double action, can be fired by cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger, OR by pulling the trigger to accomplish the feat, what's the difference? Except it can be fired 2 ways.


MB?

[Big Frank]

6 Billion people would be nice, but hard to get, but 10--20 DRTV'ers will suffice.  The current descriptions of DA/SA do not adequately describe what a firearm is capable of. Throwing these loose terms out does not benefit anyone.

If it can be fired by pulling the trigger only, and you call it double action only, yet the same pistol described as  double action, can be fired by cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger, OR by pulling the trigger to accomplish the feat, what's the difference? Except it can be fired 2 ways.


MB?

The difference is what you just said. One pistol can be fired two ways, and the other can only be fired one way.

One is double action that can also fire single action, and one is double action only. If we all use the generally accepted definitions it will be less confusing to all the n00bs. I think most people are staying out of this so they don't piss you off over nothing. And let's face it, if 100s of firearms authorities and 1000s of books and articles can't convince you, 10 or 20 people here can't either. It's as pointless as arguing about what "loose terms" such as day and night mean. It means to you what you think it means. It means to the majority what the majority thinks it means. You can use whatever definition you want to but the rest of the world won't cater to you. And like it or not, it doesn't even matter if you're right or wrong, the majority always rules when it comes to language. That's democracy in action.

[tombogan03884]

Well, at least it'll give Obama a short rest........

No it won't    I'm trying to get a good sized GROUP hate going for that commie bastard. It just dawned on me who's picture they showed in the BOOK 1984 when they had the "Daily hate".
I actually have far more respect for Osama than for Obama. There is nothing deceitful about Bin Laden, He's like Ted Nugent that way 

[tombogan03884]

Bet you NEVER thought you would see THAT comparison 

[Ksail101]

Wow thanks of all the passionate input on this topic. I am glad that alot of this is being explained. I just did understand Charter's Website and the terminology "Std". But I have learned quite a bit more. I know I started this thread but I have stayed out of responding cause I have been learning and I dont have anything to add. I say that there are a couple things I would like to ask about since they were brought up though. And I am sure with a little research on my part could answer my questions but I wouldnt even know where to look besides a Gooogle search.

First, a term was used I dont understand. Fast Action? what is that exactly.

And is the Para LDA and Glock Safe Action something completely different that SA or DA? Or are they just derivatives of SA or DA and are those two (LDA and Safe Action) considered a trigger action or gun operation since that has been a debate.

Thank you