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Which is the best?

M1 Garand
Mosin-Nagant M91
Lee-Enfield SMLE mkIII/IV
Mauser Gewehr 98
Arisaka rifle

Author Topic: Best WWII infantry battle rifle  (Read 40501 times)

Ocin

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2009, 04:29:37 AM »
The tech in the US also jumped by leaps and bounds.   Just look at what dupont came up with during the war.  One could argue that WW2 pushed the US chemical industry to its highest hights.   The english acutally had a couple great ideas as well.   One that comes to mind is the jet engine.   Like many other discoverys during WW2, they were looking for something completly diffrent.( in this case as way to turbo charge a piston engine using  fuel.)

There is another side to this story. The British had a working prototype of a jet engine in the late 30's, but because of chauvinistic high ranking brass in the RAF, being afraid of anything new, this project was cancelled. If they hadn't, the British might have had a functional jet fighter long before the Germans.
Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.
Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446 (Beacon Press paperback edition)

Ocin

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2009, 04:37:53 AM »
I still remember the first time I heard the stats on the Sherman vs. Tiger. I am in awe of anyone who rode a Sherman into battle.

One stat I heard says it all. The krauts built a total of 1600 King Tigers (or Panthers - can't remember which) and the US built nearly 50,000 Shermans. No wonder Yamamoto was distressed when his navy didn't wipe out the US fleet completely - he knew and told the Emperor that they had essentially awakened a sleeping tiger.

According to Wikipedia there were 6000 Panther tanks built, 1355 Tiger I and 487 Tiger II

As I heard the story, it was mainly the Panther that was the threat, Although being heavier armed and armoured, the Tiger I and II tanks were due to their weight not always that reliable. In situations where a Panther could move around, a Tiger tank crew was forced to wait in ambush. Even though in certain situations that worked quite well, there is a story where in Normandy 1 single Tiger tank destroyed 48 Allied vehicles. The allied were only able to move on after that tank was destroyed by fighterbombers. That of course is the high risk with vehicles that have limited mobility: high vulnerability to aircraft.

Besides, lets not forget the 40 or so thousand Russian T 34 tanks.
Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.
Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446 (Beacon Press paperback edition)

1776 Rebel

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2009, 06:57:16 AM »
Let's not forget a couple of US developments like Robert Goddard inventing rockets (to which von Braun paid tribute), the development of the atomic bomb, and the cracking of the Japanese and German codes to name just a few. Inventions though don't win a war. Good reliable practical weapons, tactical brilliance and leadership (Patton, MacArthur, Eisenhower etc) and yes manufacturing all contribute. It all gets rapped up together in a bow from a historical perspective. I'll say it again, WE WON. So nothing the japanese or nazi animals had matters for squat.

WaffenAlaskan

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2009, 07:13:48 AM »
 Weaponolgy did a show about the greatest miliatry small arms a year or two ago. I would vote for the Enfield then the M-1 Garand. I also like the K98k a lot. Waffenalaskan

twyacht

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2009, 04:32:44 PM »
I'll say it again, WE WON. So nothing the japanese or nazi animals had matters for squat.

We did win. However, the legacy of the Mauser bolt action carried far beyond WWII. Most high end bolt action rifles to some extent or other, COPIED the Mauser design to this day.

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #25 on: Today at 12:10:25 PM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2009, 06:14:58 PM »
I'll say it again, WE WON. So nothing the japanese or nazi animals had matters for squat.

We did win. However, the legacy of the Mauser bolt action carried far beyond WWII. Most high end bolt action rifles to some extent or other, COPIED the Mauser design to this day.



We also copied the Ballistic missile, the  Sturm Gewehr, and the guided bomb.

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2009, 06:47:32 PM »
germens also came up with the Assualt rifle... If it was not for hitler, they would have won the war.( atleast as far as europe is concerned.)
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

1776 Rebel

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2009, 06:55:21 PM »
We also copied the Ballistic missile, the  Sturm Gewehr, and the guided bomb.

I beg to differ...Robert Goddard (American) is a god in the pantheon of rocketry.

In 1919, the Smithsonian Institution published Goddard's groundbreaking work, A Method of Reaching Extreme Altitudes. The report describes Goddard's mathematical theories of rocket flight, his experiments with solid-fuel rockets, and the possibilities he saw of exploring the earth's atmosphere and beyond. Along with Konstantin Tsiolkovsky's earlier work, The Exploration of Cosmic Space by Means of Reaction Devices (1903), Goddard's little book is regarded as one of the pioneering works of the science of rocketry, and is believed to have influenced the work of subsequent pioneers such as Hermann Oberth, Wernher von Braun and Sergey Korolev.

An don't forget the Pederson device and Thompson of WWI (American). If that didn't start the trend of "select fire/auto, less than full rifle cartridge, large cap magazine" I don't know what did.

Oh and how about the proximity fuse and radar?

 

tombogan03884

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2009, 11:23:58 PM »
I beg to differ...Robert Goddard (American) is a god in the pantheon of rocketry.

In 1919, the Smithsonian Institution published Goddard's groundbreaking work, A Method of Reaching Extreme Altitudes. The report describes Goddard's mathematical theories of rocket flight, his experiments with solid-fuel rockets, and the possibilities he saw of exploring the earth's atmosphere and beyond. Along with Konstantin Tsiolkovsky's earlier work, The Exploration of Cosmic Space by Means of Reaction Devices (1903), Goddard's little book is regarded as one of the pioneering works of the science of rocketry, and is believed to have influenced the work of subsequent pioneers such as Hermann Oberth, Wernher von Braun and Sergey Korolev.

An don't forget the Pederson device and Thompson of WWI (American). If that didn't start the trend of "select fire/auto, less than full rifle cartridge, large cap magazine" I don't know what did.

Oh and how about the proximity fuse and radar?

 

My understanding is that the Pederson device was a flop, The Thompson didn't come out till well after WWI that's why it was called the M (model of ) 1927 Well after the model 1896 Mauser had been sold in Full auto versions and after the Erma sub machine gun. And it's irrelevant anyway, every one had Submachine guns, they called them "machine pistols" because they were PISTOL caliber. The reason the Germans wanted an "assault rifle" was because the pistol calibers weren't doing the job.
All your claims for Goddard are pointless, sure he did the research, but it was the Germans who did the ENGINEERING that changed theory into reality, the V-2 is still in service today slightly updated as the Scud.
The Germans also pioneered the Cruise missile (V-1)that we used after the war as a target tug, and the guided bomb (Fritz X)
Radar was a British development that Marconi had working before the war, how do you think they won the "Battle of Britain"?

MAUSERMAN

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2009, 01:28:34 AM »
I have to say M1 i just about as perfect a rifle someone could ask for.  My second choice would a Mauser 98k, and my third choice the SMLE.  The 303 is just to weak.
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