Episode 10: Safe In The Backcountry

[tombogan03884]

I would have liked some talk on little carbines for backcountry, liike the Kel-Tec SU16, little .22s etc. or even Mini 14s with folding stock.

Problem with the smaller calibers is that while they may be fine for up to deer and 2 legged predators they are NOT adequate for bigger 4 legged predators, they may work on dogs or coyotes but a bear or Mountain lion will crap it out (the gun) along with your watch.

[PegLeg45]

I think this episode in particular should be required viewing for the idiots in DC.

good job.

[TheBowhunter]

Enjoyed the backcountry show - a lot of good info. One thing that you could have hit on a bit more - it is illegal anywhere in California, as far as I am aware, to carry concealed, including on public lands. There are a lot of hiking trails in the Sierra, and open carry is pretty much a requirement if you're going to carry a firearm at all. I open carry when riding an ATV, and have never had a problem with it. I'd rather somebody see that I have a weapon - might make them think twice before starting something. You're right on about a wheel gun - an S&W Mod. 60, 2 1/8" barrel in .357 mag is my choice - surprisingly easy to shoot well and enough power for most critters.

I may be wrong but I think they just passed a bill concerning national forest and federal ground so we can carry. I have to look at the bill more unless someone can state it better than I can.

[tombogan03884]

Tom how could that be...if a 357 or 44mag is "fine" in a handgun than how would a mini 14 in 7.62x39 be inadequate? Or a marlin camp carbine in 45acp or a marlin 1894 in a number of calibers? What the heck would you be shootng in a handgun? Bazooka rounds? On the show nothing spectacular was being demonstrated. Nothing over 44mag that I saw.

I would think 1. your going to have better accuracy than a handgun. including small optics. 2. what are the real chances of getting jumped by a bear in the lower 48? What 6 folks a year?  3. not everyone has a CCW or wants one.

I think that a small carbine would be fine.

Because the Kel Tec SU 16 and MANY (most ? ) mini 14's are .223 "little .22's is self explanatory. I don't feel at all under gunned with my AK (7.62X39) Not sure about .45ACP on something as big as a bear but should be enough for lion, we have bears around here but not that many  and the Mountain lions are  like the Fl. Panthers, they are here but F&G denies it and they are VERY rarely spotted unlike Ca. were they attacked several people last year.
Hand guns are more convenient if you are not specifically hunting, Just like URBAN SD, you need your gun NOW when you need it, a holstered pistol is faster to deploy than an empty chambered rifle even slung over your shoulder.
Your ID space doesn't say where you are but in Maine and NH you have to have a hunting license to carry a loaded rifle in the woods, and in Maine they prohibit Sunday hunting, if you have a loaded rifle in the woods on Sunday you are convicted of poaching, no defense, you will not win. (the game law says " possession of a loaded rifle on Sunday is "prima facie evidence of Sunday hunting")
So open carry.

[Rob Pincus]

Hey guys... I'm in Eastern Europe this week so I am a little slow getting into this great discussion.  Thanks for all the feedback.

Two things I want to mention:


1. We generally say that we teach for the street (or trail in this case) and not for court. Young lady gets a knife pulled on her and she has taken the time to equip and train herself: shoot.

2. As for the crossdraw business and "experts" saying its a bad idea..... I just recommended a crossdraw to a student today (I was working with bodyguards in Slovakia). I also told a student a couple of weeks ago that he was foolish to use a crossdraw. You've got to understand that the context of a piece of information is incredibly important.... many students (and too many "experts") fail to get that point. Examples:
-Take a knee when you reload.
-Your primary light should be mounted to your gun.
-Never holster a slide-locked pistol.

In some contexts those are great pieces of information... in others they are dangerous. Students, Instructors and would-be-advice-givers need to keep that in mind. When you hear a piece of information or read it in TacticoolGuns&HandWeapons&AmmoforSwatSoldiers you have to think about whether or not it fits your context. As noted earlier in the thread, sometimes a crossdraw is a bad idea, sometimes it is a great one. I wore one regularly when leading ATV tours or guiding horseback trail rides in the mountains of CO over the past several years. I also used to wear one a lot when in a car for long distances that did not allow for convenient access (or comfortable wear) with strongside carry.
In the wilderness, you generally will have a huge distance advantage when it comes to noticing that someone may be a threat. In the quiki-mart, everyone is always within arms reach anyway.... presentation from a crossdraw holster can be easily fouled by a close quarters attacker and is slower and takes more energy than strongside. It is more possible that you will not a got shot off fast enough, or at all, in response to a close quarters ambush with crossdraw, which is the main reason that I do not recommend it as a first choice in general CCW situations.

-RJP

(PS- we'll cover rifles in a future season/episode... if you guys want to debate calibers, please take it to the general defense area.....)

[Sponsor]

[Overload]

I may be wrong but I think they just passed a bill concerning national forest and federal ground so we can carry. I have to look at the bill more unless someone can state it better than I can.

Somewhat wrong.  It wasn't a bill/law, just a change in policy.  Plus, the change only removed the federal ban from carrying.  So, the state law is now in effect: if you can carry in the state, you can carry in a national forest/park.  Also, if you CAN'T carry in the state, you also can't carry in a national forest/park.

Unless you're thinking of something else, in which case, nevermind.

[D-Man]

Enjoyed the backcountry show - a lot of good info. One thing that you could have hit on a bit more - it is illegal anywhere in California, as far as I am aware, to carry concealed, including on public lands. There are a lot of hiking trails in the Sierra, and open carry is pretty much a requirement if you're going to carry a firearm at all. I open carry when riding an ATV, and have never had a problem with it. I'd rather somebody see that I have a weapon - might make them think twice before starting something. You're right on about a wheel gun - an S&W Mod. 60, 2 1/8" barrel in .357 mag is my choice - surprisingly easy to shoot well and enough power for most critters.

You are allowed to carry concealed while hunting, or fishing in CA as long as you have a valid hunting license (yes, even while fishing).

[dustinb50]

I enjoyed the episode! One of the great things that I get from TBD is that it brings up different scenarios in an "everyday" life. It gets me to thinking about my everyday life.

As far as "back country" is concerned in SD there is very few animals that may seriously endanger your life. HOWEVER, last year I was hunting public ground that runs parallel with the Missouri river and we accidentally crossed onto private land (due to poor signage by the state and ranchers). We almost immediately heard a pickup flying across the field driven by the rancher that owned the land. This was a rush knowing that a butt chewing was coming! We could have quickly walked off to try avoid the situation but that would have only made us look that much more guilty.  My father had a similar situation happen to him while retrieving a legally shot deer that ran to onto private land, He was held at gun point by a hired hand until the Game and Fish showed up. NOTE: He had no gun. He left it at the fence he crossed. With this story in the back of my head and a 30-06 A-Bolt slung over my shoulder I was glad I was carrying concealed! As the the pickup approached us I slipped my left hand (yes a south paw) through my bibs and placed it on my XD-40, appearing as to warm my hand. To make a long story short, with much apologizing and respect the rancher seen our sincerity of heart that it was an accident and that we had no intentions to trespass. Despite the positive outcome in this situation, the possibility always exists that another rancher may not have been so understanding and it could have gotten ugly quick!

You may or may not have deadly animal threats, but a run in with a angry land owner or another hunter is a situation I am more likely to deal with. It may be something for you to consider depending on where you live/ hunt.

-Dustin

[moga]

Loved seeing the revolvers. One thing great about them is if you are ambushed by a four legged predator you will be able to continue firing if the animal is on top of you. This comes in real handy in bear country. I do not go into a forest without at least having a .357 magnum or larger caliber revolver.

+1 on the revolvers. I have come to the forum to inquire about the kydex OWB holster that Rob wore on the show. Who makes it? I'd love to have one for a few of DA revolvers I rotate through for hiking trips. I've found that premium leather holsters become scratched and dinged up in short order after leaving the city for a good trek in the woods.

I also want to complement you guys for incorporating defense concepts as it relates to a lady's point of view on the show. The last four episodes this season have been great topics of conversation for the wife and I. Believe me, that in itself is a compliment to your production. I've accomplished more headway in 30 days of watching the show with the little lady than I have in years prior to reinforce the importance of situational awareness.

Great show and keep up the good work.

Moga
Atlanta, GA

[Hazcat]

The shoulder rig Rob used can be found here: http://www.survivalsheath.com/holsters/index.htm