Selecting a self-defense (martial arts) training discipline – input please

[dnittler]

I want to start training in a fighting art again. I think I have it narrowed down, but I want to hear suggestions before I make the commitment.

Where I am today:
I have been following Michael Bane’s podcast for well over a year, and been watching TBD, and am taking the steps to protect myself and my family: Hardening entrances, planning and communicating with the family members, spending time at the range with the wife and kids, shooting more, and did I mention shooting more. Always looking for that “just one last” gun.

And then I had to start hearing Janich talking about, “when all you’ve got is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.” Dammit, I like my hammers!!! But then it hits me. He’s right.

I’m not entirely naïve I suppose. I mean, I carry medium framed handgun, a good light, a good knife, spare ammo, a spare gun, a phone, and stay well out of harms way. But I have completely neglected training in any sort of hand to hand combat. This bothers me, since there is no guarantee that if me or my family are attacked that their will be time (or if it would even be possible if the threat is in the midst of my loved ones) to respond with live fire.

What my question is:
So here I am in the midst of a search of what is best (obviously best is a subjective term) for me and my goals.

Krav Maga
Based on what I have read, Krav Maga passes the tests of what I am looking for in a training system. Effective, simple and fast. There is no Krav Maga training facilities within 300 miles of me. There used to be one here, but it didn’t make it do to lack of popularity.

Brazilian Ju Jitsu
My background is in Brazilian Ju Jitsu (over a decade ago I trained in that for about a year), so I visited their place this morning and watched them train, thinking that would work. I’m sure that it would teach me something, but since I have heard from some pretty reputable sources that you will fight like you train it seems like that might not be the best training for me. I watched as the head instructor was trying to submit a pupil for 20 minutes. The student was on all fours; face down on the ground with the instructor on his back going for various arm bars, wrist locks, chokes etc. Within the rules of the sport, the attacker was not allowed to beat on the back of the guys head so they played a game of chess. I don’t want to program myself that it is OK to “give” an attacker my back as a good defensive move. That is not a sound plan for me, so that rules that discipline out for me. In addition to this, I would have to go “all in”, and hope not to get my head kicked in by bad guy #2 while I’m “rolling” with bad guy #1.

Mixed Martial Arts.
I visited the training facility for a local MMA group. The instructor has a class with six students. I have known the owner of the place since I was a kid, and he said he would let me in to train with the group as the new guy (or maybe he said I can be the mook dummy? Is there really a difference?). One of the students is an active competitor in the local circuit and has won the two last big regional tournaments. The negative of this discipline is that it still as sport with “rules of engagement” unlike the training and mindset of Krav Maga. The advantage I see in this training over the BJJ is that strikes are not only allowed, but they are encouraged.

Would I be well advised to commit to train with a group like this, or should I continue my search of an instructor and system that is better suited to real-life self defense?

[twyacht]

For my .02 cents, I have trained in aikido, started rather innocently years ago after watching some of the early Steven Segal movies, when I was much younger and kinda cocky.

After getting my a** thrown & beat around, and realizing the serious "damage" to the human body that can be inflicted, plus the natural disarming techniques utilizing the premise its easier to re-direct force than it is to try and stop it, aikido carries some valid techniques that are relevant in today's world. I enjoyed my 7+ years training and studying in NC, until a back injury on the job kinda slowed the training down. In a "bum rush"  or "from behind" attacks, any type you mentioned have merit.

Most BG's won't have any type of "formal" training, just street thugs and bar fighter types that aikido easily counters.

Plus, the old man said, "If your fighting fair, your tactics stink."

Here's a link. to aikido.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/34427/martial_arts_aikido_techniques/

In modern training, the moves don't appear so "formal"  more "loose and natural". My instructor would train us once a week in street clothes, because,.... that's what we wear 99.999% of the time.

He literally made me very protective of my denim pockets,...

Good post, as sometimes we might NOT always be able to get to our firearm.

Nothing like a good piece of hickory,...
Clint Eastwood.

[Pathfinder]

I want to start training in a fighting art again. I think I have it narrowed down, but I want to hear suggestions before I make the commitment.

Within the rules of the sport,

There's your answer right there.

Krav maga would be excellent, founded in kill or be killed attacks. No instructor sucks, no argument.

Talk with the local instructors and tell them what you're looking for, perhaps they know more and just sell what sells. Perhaps you can work with them on a 1-on-1 basis, no classes, just good basic training. Or find out if the KM instructor is still around, just no school.

Aikido is excellent for redirecting force and especially putting BGs on the floor in some serious pain. Back in the 20's, Aikido's founder, O-Sensei, stood off a Japanese naval officer armed with a sword for 8 hours - the sword never touched him - but then he never attacked and subdued the officer either. Part of the whole "I don't want to be a violent martial art" thing O-Sensei started.

Segal does Hollyweird versions even in real life. IIRC he had to start a new dojo association as the other Aikido groups wouldn't have him and his style. He may have changed though. Be advised, though, that aikido comes with a huge amount of baggage in the form of "worship" of O-Sensei as well as the whole bushido  / zen stuff. If it's not for you, well, it ain't for you.

[TAB]

If no Krav maga... I'd look at something like judo, While yes its not into striking, it will teach you about the humen body and get you confy at being in close.

[twyacht]

Be advised, though, that aikido comes with a huge amount of baggage in the form of "worship" of O-Sensei as well as the whole bushido  / zen stuff. If it's not for you, well, it ain't for you.

Very true. I was fortunate to find an instructor that was more "reality" based. The "baggage" was not as prevalent.

It also included, perhaps his own style, a more aggressive posture that had more offensive tactics.  His belief was that no matter how big or bad the BG or Tori is, it's very hard to sustain an attack with a broken clavicle, or broken hand/arm/ extremity....

I initally thought if I resisted being thrown or flipped, I could change the outcome of the attack, WRONG!

To consider it a "sport" could dictate the style. The Brazilian Jujitsu has more "street level" techniques, but the one you pick is like buying a firearm.

What to I want it to do?
How will I apply it?

If I get attacked on the street, unarmed, unable to get to my Kershaw pocket knife, its Katy Bar the Door, I am going to do what it takes to STOP the threat. Breaking bones or making the BG unable to breathe, see, function, is a quick way to insure I walk away.

I'm sure Rob and MB who do this kind of thing for a living, will also provide great insight.

[Sponsor]

[Ping]

I always enjoyed Wing Chun Kung Fu or Jeet Kun Do. With Wing Chung I thoroughly enjoyed "sticky hands" contact fighting. Unfortunately my instructor moved and I slowly lost interest over the years. I believe keeping up with a martial art form is very beneficial. Just my personal opinion.

[saltydogbk]

 What you need to do is attend and observe a few classes.  Watch the instructors.  One style does not have an advantage over another, in most cases.  I train in a system called Zen Do Kia (ZDK).  We often say that if there is no blood, it's not a brown belt test.  What we mean is, we take hard hits in the dojo, so we can take them on the street.  Observe, you will know the good from the bad.

[bucktracker]

Wing chun kung fu worked for me to fend off an attack. The system utilizes chain punching which is a very fast powerful punch that is made famous by bruce lee and the one inch punch. The system has other effective "tricks" as well. Although it lacks ground fighting. I found myself vulnerable on my back with an attacker standing over me. I immediatly trained in Brazillian ju jitsu.
Train in what interests you, some training is better then no training.

[Michael Bane]

That's a toughie...I spent  decade in Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do, with some side trips into akido, tai chi and various Philippine stick/knife disciplines. I learned a lot from all of them (and cold, damp mornings are a real treat these days!). I fought some full contact (hence the fun mornings) and studied odd things like mime (handy for fighting inside) and various "motion therapies," handy for improving range of motion and understanding spatial relationships.

I don't think I truly understood the martial arts, however, until I got out of the dojo and started my time in very high risk sports like big mountains, cave diving, blah blah. The reason I did well at the edges of the known universe were the lessons I learned in the dojo, at hundreds of IPSC matches and in training and simulations...as my mother said once, "I never figured you'd be so good at not dying." I think that's a compliment, anyway!

There are a number of defensive tactics classes that synthesize easily learned/effective martial arts strategies that could be alternatives to the traditional arts. Training full contact with red suits is eye-opening, to say the least. I also strongly recommend that if you get the chance, take the Martial Blade Concept classes from TBD co-host Michael Janich...he is a brilliant instructor, and his classes are among the best I've ever taken:

http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/

Remember, style is an impediment to action! Just ask me how I ended up counting birdies on the floor in a sparring match with a Golden Gloves fighter, or how (I swear) I let Chuck Norris con me into getting pounded into the sand on a beach in Hawaii by one of the Gracies...

Michael B

[tombogan03884]

That's a toughie...I spent  decade in Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do, with some side trips into akido, tai chi and various Philippine stick/knife disciplines. I learned a lot from all of them (and cold, damp mornings are a real treat these days!). I fought some full contact (hence the fun mornings) and studied odd things like mime (handy for fighting inside) and various "motion therapies," handy for improving range of motion and understanding spatial relationships.

I don't think I truly understood the martial arts, however, until I got out of the dojo and started my time in very high risk sports like big mountains, cave diving, blah blah. The reason I did well at the edges of the known universe were the lessons I learned in the dojo, at hundreds of IPSC matches and in training and simulations...as my mother said once, "I never figured you'd be so good at not dying." I think that's a compliment, anyway!

There are a number of defensive tactics classes that synthesize easily learned/effective martial arts strategies that could be alternatives to the traditional arts. Training full contact with red suits is eye-opening, to say the least. I also strongly recommend that if you get the chance, take the Martial Blade Concept classes from TBD co-host Michael Janich...he is a brilliant instructor, and his classes are among the best I've ever taken:

http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/

Remember, style is an impediment to action! Just ask me how I ended up counting birdies on the floor in a sparring match with a Golden Gloves fighter, or how (I swear) I let Chuck Norris con me into getting pounded into the sand on a beach in Hawaii by one of the Gracies...

Michael B

Same reason you had to get the Serbu, you are a sucker for abuse   

"the EASY way and the Right way are seldom the SAME way"