Tactical Rifle class and optics

[Hotwire22]

Hello,
I'm going to bounce all over the place here so bear with me. I have owned an AR for less than two months and have very little rifle experience. Lots of shotgun hunting but no rifle. I took Eriks course and was WAY out of my element but was very pleased with the results. The class size was small and the mix of students ranged from government LE to swat to military reservists to hunters to enthusiasts like me. The class was technical and quick enough  to keep the experienced guys engaged and  basic enough for newbies to not get overwhelmed processing information. The training was excellent and time was taken with each student individually to both critique and praise. I would HIGHLY recommend you take the time and attend this class at USSA. It is worth the money in every way. Plus it's BIGTIME FUN.

Next item- I bought a Bushnell trophy red dot $150 optic from optics planet and I think we ran about 1000 rounds in the course and it performed really well so I think I will just stick with it but I would like to have it sit a little higher on the rail (3/4 to 1 inch) I found myself having to really crane my neck in most situations and feel like if the site set higher it would be fine. Or should I just ebay the bushnell and take the $100 I'm sure this riser would cost me and go with something with a larger apeture like an eotech or something?

Last one- I have another AR that is a Rock River and want to put a variable power 1x4 scope on it. Any one have any suggestions with what type to buy. I took a risk with the Bushnell and it panned out but want to be a bit more informed with the next purchase.

All in all a great weekend. If you are lucky enought to live in or a daytrip away from Tulsa you definatley need to come down and check out USSA.

[alfsauve]

Risers are not as expensive as you might think.  I put a 1/2" high 5" long riser on my AR to both move the sights up and forward.  It was only $25.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=ARR-2277

There are shorter and longer ones available.  I have a Leupold VX-I 4-12x on my Varmint upper.  Luepold has a rather long eye relief and I needed the cantilever riser to move it forward a bit.

You can't go wrong with Leupold VX or FX series.    I can also recommend the Nikon Monarch and the Bushnell Legend, 3200 & 4200 scopes.  Here's the thing.  All scope manufacturers (most all anyway) make a low end line aimed at the big box stores and the "packaged" guns.  I'd stay away from those.  If you can't afford the very top end, (like me), then look at the lower priced top end lines.  VX-I and VX-II in the Leupold line are a very good value.

If you need rings, I really like the Weaver Quad-Locks.

[JC5123]

If you don't want a scope higher than 4 power, just go fixed power, instead of variable. Save enough money to get a better quality scope. Besides that, 1-2 power, you might as well just get a red dot. And there is little difference from 3-4 power. My suggestion is a fixed three power with some sort of ranging reticle. Mil-Dot perhaps.

[elnor]

Hotwire, do you have a link to the USSA class info?  TIA.

[Hotwire22]

The website address is    www.usshootingacademy.com     go to the training section and check out the videos. It is a great facility and the staff is friendly and helpful. I am taking their CQT course in two weeks. Going to get my ass kicked around a bit but I should learn some stuff. 
  I guess what i like about their courses is that it's intense enough that the point gets made that this is serious stuff we are learning and although it's fun the underlying principles are, at least from a civilian perspective, is that really bad people do some really bad things and if you are in their way you or someone dear to you are going to get hurt or killed. These classes teach you to not only have a chance but to come out of a situation intact (read NOT DEAD).  On the other hand you don't have some instructor in your face screaming and spitting at you when you do something wrong. At least in the courses open to civilians if you make a mistake on the line or are doing something stupid that in real life would get you hurt or killed you WILL get FIRM encouragment to correct the situation. Then when the drill or scenerio plays out they will take the time one on one to explain what you did wrong and what you should have done differently. The courses that are designed only for LE or Military are I am sure a bit more intense.

Ever ran 100 yards then retrieved your rifle out of car and shot targets at 100 meters under a car or across the hood of a car.?Sound like fun? Well it's actually pretty stressful while the scenario is playing out. Dust kicking up from the muzzle blast, smoke from the powder, Erik yelling at you to hurry, hurry, hurry. All the while your trying to get your breathing or even remember to breathe? I actually locked up on one target and kept putting rounds in it over and over until Eriks commands "snapped" me out of it. Tunnel Vision. Nothing else existed in the world but that steel plate. Very, very cool stuff that a civilian like me would probably never experience in real life until it was a situation that mattered.

The pistol course I took was great also. More of an introduction to handling a pistol and reload drills, draw, drills, proper grip, ect.

I would HIGHLY recommend any of the courses they have to offer. I cant wait for the next rifle course. Should learn some great stuff and build on my beginning stuff.

[Sponsor]

[Kelly Neal]

I've had a lot of success with the Leupold 1.5-5X MR/T.  In fact, everyone on the Leupold shooting team uses one - although everybody has different reticle preferences.  Bennie Cooley and I like the circle dot, Tony Homes likes the standard duplex.  The CQ/T is also a good scope.

There are plenty of good low powered variables out there.  The Meopta 1-4X is good.   Most of the European rifle competitors rely on the Zeiss 1.1-4X.  Daniel Horer of the AMU uses a Schmidt und Bender with stadia lines.  Jerry Miculek uses a US Optics 1-4 with circle dot reticle.  The new Trijicon seems to have a lot of potential as does the Burris 1.1-4X. 

While there are plenty of good optics, scope mount choice is much easier. Get a Larue or JP mount.

While red dots are excellent fighting scopes, I find that their utility starts to diminish past 100 yards or so.  As soon as targets become obscure, hidden, or vague, a  little magnification goes a long way.

[Marshal Halloway]

Hotwire, do you have a link to the USSA class info?  TIA.

We will do more from Erik's classes at USSA this spring. Here's one we did back in 07:
http://www.downrange.tv/videos/bring-a-rifle-to-a-fight.htm

[Ping]

I have been looking into these classes myself. My in-laws live in Tulsa so I would have a place to hang my hat. What I have seen in footage from the US Shooting Academy it is pure class and professionalism.

[Lmccrock]

Other options: I have an IOR 1.1-4x and it works pretty well in competitions, but I believe they are about $900 now. The Weaver 1-3x is popular at a lower price point.

Lee

[ratcatcher55]

Hotwire22,

Check out LaRue Tactical for mounts and optics.

www.laruetactical.com

Like you I found it easier to co-witness the EOtech and front sight post with a riser/mount.

They'll send a Tactical Beverage Entry Tool if you order from them.