N.R.A.

[xd40lover]

i keep getting alerts a bout the NRA backing a bill they should not be backing. whats up . i have been busy a few days and i must have missed something.  should i be on the phone to my rep. are not .  xd40!!!!

[Teresa Heilevang]

What bill is that? You didn't say ...
I haven't got the alert.. But I have got some unopened mail from them on my desk.......

[Boulderlaw]

From Rocky Mountain Gun Owners; GRO sent something similar:

Sen. Coburn stands heroically, while NRA's response fails to hit mark
 
U.S. Senator Tom Coburn (R-Oklahoma) is standing firm against H.R. 2640, but he needs your help (see below).  His leadership in the U.S. Senate, a body almost totally devoid of principled and courageous statesmen, has been rivaled by few in the last decade.  Send a quick note to Senator Coburn at (http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactSenatorCoburn.Home) to thank him for being one of the few voices supporting our Constitution.
 
If you contacted the NRA in opposition to H.R. 2640, you may have received an e-mail dismissing gun owners' objections to the bill.  But make no mistake, the NRA is feeling the heat, and the criticism from the gun rights community is getting louder.
 
The NRA is bragging about how this bill, with it's rabid anti-gun House sponsor Carolyn McCarthy driving it, will improve the Brady Registration system, but they miss one fact: Gun owners want to repeal the Brady Registration system, not improve it.   We were opposed to the original compromise, which was cut by the NRA (see http://www.nrawol.net/nix.htm for detail on how it passed originally), and are opposed to anything short of repealing it.
 
Gun owners are also adamantly opposed to building massive government databases where, even if you have a clean record, the system will -- sooner or later -- come back to haunt you.
 
Witness Virginia, long considered one of America's most pro-gun states.  Gun banners in that state proposed a one-gun-a-month rationing scheme, but couldn't pass it through the legislature because it was too costly to create the system to restrict the purchase to one gun a month.  But once the NRA passed the state-level Brady in Virginia, the system was in place.  It gave our opponents the tools to advance their anti-gun agenda, and it was accomplished through the actions of the NRA.
 
The real tone of the NRA's response is "Trust us, we wouldn't do anything to hurt your rights".
 
But gun owners around the United States are starting to question that trust.
 
Take, for instance, the comments of one former NRA member:
 
"You told us to trust you in the past, and we got the 1934 National Firearms Act; the 1968 Gun Control Act; the Brady Registration system; the Assault Weapons Ban; the Lautenberg Gun Ban, so many compromises on the state level I've stopped counting, and now this: HR2640.”  Eric, NRA member
 
Or this one:
 
“Any trust you might have earned from me by the tough talk in your fundraising letters has long-since vanished with your cacophony of compromises on my gun rights.  I'd sooner write a check to Sarah Brady, as she's not as effective at passing gun control as the NRA."  Gerry, former NRA member
 
A checklist of problems hasn't been answered by the NRA, and can't be, because these are devastating facts:
 
1. Why pass this gun control (everyone knows that's what it is)?  Without the NRA's help, this bill wouldn't have a prayer.  But our enemies are smiling, knowing they have cornered the group that is tasked with defending gun owners into supporting HR2640.
 
2. This bill is a massive expansion of the Brady Registration system, a scheme gun owners want to repeal, not expand.
 
3.  This bill is offered by the most rabid anti-gunners in Congress, and is being praised by all of the enemies of freedom.  That alone should give anyone pause.
 
4. We're told we should trust the very group that has been bargaining our rights away for decades.  Let me ask you: Are you more comfortable with today's firearms laws than those 50 years ago?  No, you aren't.  And who is the self-appointed decision maker on gun issues?
 
But why is the NRA doing this?
 
It's very simple: the NRA is more concerned with their image in the press and their relationship to squishy politicians than in standing firm for gun owners.  They'd rather be liked by Washington insiders than respected by their members.
 
They covet their media-dubbed status as the being the "powerful gun lobby" (ever wonder why the anti-gun press would praise the NRA in such a manner?), and you can't maintain that image if you don't sit down with your opponents to cut deals -- that's what Washington demands of its players.  And cutting deals is what the NRA does best.
 
Of course, that isn't what they'll tell you in their fundraising mail, but their actions speak volumes.
 
The NRA will tell you that that H.R. 2640 will bring relief to gun owners; they claim it only enforces existing law; they claim it is an improvement to the NICS system.
 
Gun Owners of America's long-time gun rights attorney does a great job of detailing why these claims are not only wrong, but misleading.  You can read those at: http://gunowners.org/ne0702.htm 
 
In order to swallow the NRA’s minor clerical “improvements” to the NICS system, we must assume it is better to fix unconstitutional gun control than repeal it. Most gun owners have enough common sense to understand that no matter how much you try to change them, a bad law is still a bad law and an “infringement” is still an “infringement.”
 
The NRA also claims that “wrongfully” accused gun owners will now have recourse to regain their rights.  If the NRA hadn’t bargained our rights away in the first place, combat veterans, kids with ADHD and gun owners whom liberal judges view as “extremists”, wouldn’t have to spend $100,000’s to regain their constitutionally protected rights. 
 
The anti-gunners are doing a good enough job putting gun owners behind bars.  We certainly don't need those considered to be "on our side" to help them.
 
What the NRA refuses to publicly acknowledge is that H.R. 2640 loosens the restraints on anti-gun BATFE agents and liberal judges in the process of “adjudicating” the mental state of gun owners. 
 
No matter how much perfume the NRA uses, this pig still smells like a pig.
 
What you can do:
 
 
1)                                    Call both your U.S. Senators and tell them to oppose H.R. 2640, the McCarthy/Leahy Gun Control Bill. The U.S. Senate switchboard number is (202) 224-3121.
 
Ask for your Senators' office.Go here (http://votesmart.org/index.htm) to find your U.S. Senators.
 
2)                                    Call Wayne LaPierre, Executive Vice-President of the NRA, at (800) 392-8683 and tell him to stop supporting gun control.
 
3)                                    Email the NRA’s federal lobbyist, Chuck Cunningham at chuckc@visi.net and Federal-Affairs@nrahq.org.  Tell him and NRA to stop supporting gun control.
 
4)                                    Help NAGR fight gun control. Go here (http://tinyurl.com/yufg3w) to donate to NAGR.
 
 
 
For more information on H.R. 2640, go here (http://www.nationalgunrights.org/hr2640.shtml) to visit NAGR’s information page.

[Bill Stryker]

How stupid can the Democrats in congress be?.....This is how stupid..........

Call the NRA and tell them to oppose this BS. And watch out for RINO Republicans as well.

VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS


By Larry Pratt
September 22, 2007
NewsWithViews.com

Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.

How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.

This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.

The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.

No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.

The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.

Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.

But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you’re talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans’ names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).

So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans’ gun rights.

One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.

The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).

Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred ­for life ­ from owning guns.


Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.

Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.

 

[DonWorsham]

Read this. It offers a different opinion of the legislation.

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,151321_1,00.html

"There is no such thing as the “Veterans Disarmament Act.”  There is no pending legislation that would take firearms away from veterans. There is no pending legislation that would prevent a person with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), veteran or not, from purchasing a firearm or ammo.

But, there is a huge campaign of misinformation and scare tactics being forwarded by a small gun owners group who view themselves to be in competition with the National Rifle Association (NRA).

Let’s use some common sense instead of nonsense. If veterans were to lose the right to own firearms, you’d have a lot of unemployed cops. If those who have PTSD were to lose that right, there’d be even more unemployed cops and other first responders, as well. The arguments about a “Veterans Disarmament Act” are, quite simply, ridiculous and illogical."

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

This site also has a good description of the bill and explains that it did NOT add any neww ways to "get on the list" and actually provides ways to get off "the list".

http://www.pgnh.org/enough_nra_bashing

[HKL]

Historian & scholar Clayton Cramer, claytoncramer.com, has studied HR 2640 and can not find the damaging evidence we all worry about with this bill.  One still worries about anything from the people who sponsor this bill.  It seems any law enacted is abused by government.  Look at the way the Patriot Act has been abused.  People accused of terrorist acts at local levels of law enforcement, that have nothing to do with terrorism.  Just the money offered to the states for turning over medical info is a big cost to taxpayers.  Let alone letting government have the info.

The NRA is the stongest voice out there for gun owners, but their abuse of the membership when members disagree is bad. Many, besides myself, have been lied to and treated arrogantly.  The NRA has crossed several states grass roots groups at the state level, including ours, causing more harm than good.  More power to those who support the NRA, but their abuse has been too much for me to endure. 

[xd40lover]

thanks you guys for the replies. i;m not sure i want to give up on theN.R.A.with the DEM.  throwing all their money at the Clinton's we are going to be in a lot of trouble soon. i pray and hope nobody ever tries to take my grandfathers or my dads guns, even the old single barrel with a bubble in the barrel. that my other papa JOLLY had. i had it made into a awesome floor lamp.  i wish i could send your a picture . i keep trying but they say its to big. i still can still hear the words of MR. C HELTON. surely it want get that bad in my time.why is it the older i get the bigger cal. i buy. i'm up to 44MAG now. is S.W. 500 .in my future?  xd40

[Boulderlaw]

Update (note that I am still an NRA member and urge you to become one/remain one; I just think the NRA needs to be reminded what its members believe in):

An Open Letter To The Pro-gun Community

Gun Owners of America
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Thursday, October 4, 2007


It may be a cliche, but it is true: This letter is written not in
anger, but in sorrow and concern. It is written to our friends about
NRA staff who, tragically, have taken a course which, we believe,
would be disastrous for the Second Amendment and the pro-gun
movement.

Two of us are Life Members of the NRA -- one of whom was an NRA board
member for over ten years. And our legislative counsel was a paid
consultant for the NRA.

So we certainly have no animus against the NRA staff, much less our
wonderful friends who are NRA members.

In fact, over the last thirty years, GOA and its staff have worked
with NRA to facilitate most of our pro-gun victories -- from
McClure-Volkmer to the death of post-Columbine gun control to a gun
liability bill free of anti-gun "killer amendments."

But those who staff the NRA, without consulting the membership, have
now made a series of strange and dangerous alliances with the likes
of Chuck Schumer, Carolyn McCarthy, and Pat Leahy. And we believe
that, if allowed to continue, this will produce anti-gun policies
which the NRA staff will bitterly regret.

Christ said, in the Sermon on the Mount, that "by their fruits, ye
shall know them." And, frankly, these fruits are not likely to
produce much pro-gun legislation.

Substantively, the Leahy/McCarthy/Schumer bill, which NRA's staff has
vigorously supported without consulting with its membership, would
rubber-stamp the illegal and non-statutory BATFE regulations which
have already been used to strip gun rights from 110,000 veterans. It
would also allow an anti-gun administration to turn over Americans'
most private medical records to the federal instant check system
without a court order.

But perhaps even worse, the bill was hatched in secret, without
hearings or testimony, and passed out of the House without even a
roll call. And now, the sponsors are trying to do the same thing in
the Senate -- in an effort to ram the bill through without votes or
floor debate, led by anti-gun Senator Chuck Schumer. If it is good
legislation, as its proponents claim, why such fears of a roll call
vote or debate in committee?

Indeed, in the face of horrific dissent from the NRA's own
membership, its staff has tragically ignored arguments and dug in its
heels -- in an almost "because-we-say-so" attitude.

Understand this:

* Passage of McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer will not quell the calls for gun
control. To the contrary, it will embolden our enemies to push for
the abolition of even more of our Second Amendment rights. Already,
the Brady Campaign has indicated its intent to follow up this
"victory" with a push for an effective ban on gun shows.

* Passage of McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer will not be viewed as an "NRA
victory." To the contrary, once the liberal media has used the NRA
staff for its purposes, it will throw them away like a used Kleenex.
Already, an over-confident press is crowing that this is the "first
major gun control measure in over a decade."

* Taking the BATFE's horrifically expansive unlawful regulations
dealing with veterans' loss of gun rights and making them
unchangeable congressionally-endorsed statutory law is NOT
"maintaining the status quo."

* We are told that the McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer bill should be passed
because it contains special provisions to allow persons prohibited
from owning guns to get their rights restored. But there is already
such a provision in the law; it is 18 U.S.C. 925(c). And the reason
why no one has been able to get their rights restored under CURRENT
LAW is that funds for the system have been blocked by Chuck Schumer.
It is no favor to gun owners for Chuck Schumer -- the man who has
blocked funding for McClure-Volkmer's "relief from disability"
provisions for 15 years -- to now offer to give us back a tepid
version of the provisions of current law which he has tried so hard
to destroy.

Finally, there is the cost, which ranges from $1 billion in the
cheapest draft to $5 billion -- to one bill which places no limits
whatsoever on spending. Thus, we would be drastically increasing
funding for gun control -- at a time when BATFE, which has done so
much damage to the Second Amendment, should be punished, rather than
rewarded.

We would now respectfully ask the NRA staff to step back from a
battle with its membership -- and to join with us in opposing
McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer gun control, rather than supporting it.

And, to our friends and NRA members, we would ask that you take this
letter and pass it on to your friends and colleagues.

Sincerely,


Senator H.L. "Bill" Richardson (ret.)
Founder and Chairman

Larry Pratt
Executive Director

Michael E. Hammond
Legislative Counsel

[Hazcat]

Has the GOA ever actually done anything to support the 2A? All I ever see from this Democrat founded organization is them stiring up crap and trying to sell crappy T-shirts.

If you read up thread you will see that all of this BS has been debunked.