Justified shooting? One to watch

[Fatman]

PA law basically says you cannot instigate a fight and then claim to be a innocent in using deadly force to defend yourself.  this will  be one to keep an eye on. Who really started this? The defendant apparently fled, never a good indication.

Defense: Easton South Side shooting was self-defense

The Morning Call
    1:35 PM EDT, July 13, 2009

An Easton man accused of attempted homicide for shooting another man in March during an argument was acting in self-defense, his defense attorney said today.

Clifford Ransom Jr., 31, shot Jonathan Amato and his pit bull only after Amato punched, kneed and choked him, and only after the dog began biting his arm, said lawyer Philip Lauer.

Despite Lauer's contention, District Judge Daniel Corpora of south Easton found enough evidence exists for Ransom to face Northampton County Court on charges that also include aggravated assault, reckless endangerment and cruelty to animals, as well as two firearms offenses and a count of fleeing apprehension.

Ransom, who was arrested in April in Loveland, Colo., is accused of wounding Amato in the groin and killing the dog with a shot to the head at Amato's W. Berwick Street home.

Amato, 29, testified this morning that he and Ransom had briefly exchanged words March 17 when Ransom reached for his hip, like he was going to pull a gun. Amato said he began to try to knock Ransom out.

When the dog grabbed Ransom's arm, "after that is when I heard the gunshots," said Amato.

Assistant District Attorney Patricia Mulqueen said Amato's actions fit his belief that Ransom was reaching for a gun. Amato, she said, was right about what was happening.

"Mr. Amato was quicker than the defendant," said Mulqueen. "He shouldn't be held liable because he was quicker. The victim was correct: (Ransom) had a gun."

Lauer argued that Ransom was not trying to murder or assault Amato when he fired the shots.

"What the commonwealth has proven is that somebody in the process of virtually being beaten to death and being chewed up by a dog did something to protect himself," Lauer said.

--Reporting by Riley Yates, The Morning Call

[tombogan03884]

 He should not have fled, NH law reads the same way, but we can't judge with out knowing what was said. There's a big difference between "please quit letting your dog crap on my lawn" and something like "if I see that mutt on my lawn again I'm shooting both of you". The animal cruelty charge is pure BS. From what I've heard from you who live in Pa. Easton is fairly anti gun so most of it could just be spin.

[ericire12]

I dont like that law

[tombogan03884]

I dont like that law

You don't like a law that says if you start crap you have to take your a$$ whooping  ?

[ericire12]

You don't like a law that says if you start crap you have to take your a$$ whooping  ?

No, I dont like a law that says if I were to get into a fight expecting to use only my fists and then there is a gun put in my face that I would go to jail for using lethal force to defend myself.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

No, I dont like a law that says if I were to get into a fight expecting to use only my fists and then there is a gun put in my face that I would go to jail for using lethal force to defend myself.

I think you're off base. 1st, there is duty to retreat from a confrontaion, (not a threat depending on the state), but an argument that could come to blows, you walk away. If you don't ,you have a problem. You may think a fist fight entails a bloody nose, I might think it ends with you stomping my head in. Ergo I fell threatened and pull a gun. Unless its at the gym a fist fight should only be in an SD situation and then all cards are on the table. Your job is to be mature and man enough to walk (or run if necessary) away. If the other guy won't let you, well, that becomes  his problem. Just my 02.
FQ13

[twyacht]

When it comes to blows, remember:

If your fighting fair:

your tactics stink....

I have been attacked by dogs, two of them, when they set their mind to go for your throat, face, limbs, etc,... All bets end.

The only thing I had was a 4" Kershaw, used it, and I survived, while they bled and thought twice about the next round. (so did I but,...)..I don't even know if the dogs died or not, they got off me and some folks in a car pulled up to help.

Either way, there is more to the story than we know about, BUT someone sicks their dog on me, it is a life or death situation.

Pit Bull as well? That is a four legged lethal weapon, and yes I have known big baby pits, and Dobermans, and Rotts, and Shepards, that are all gentle and loving, but they can be like light switch with a type of owner that enables aggression in a breed of that type.

[shooter32]

When it comes to blows, remember:

If your fighting fair:

your tactics stink....

I have been attacked by dogs, two of them, when they set their mind to go for your throat, face, limbs, etc,... All bets end.

The only thing I had was a 4" Kershaw, used it, and I survived, while they bled and thought twice about the next round. (so did I but,...)..I don't even know if the dogs died or not, they got off me and some folks in a car pulled up to help.

Either way, there is more to the story than we know about, BUT someone sicks their dog on me, it is a life or death situation.

Pit Bull as well? That is a four legged lethal weapon, and yes I have known big baby pits, and Dobermans, and Rotts, and Shepards, that are all gentle and loving, but they can be like light switch with a type of owner that enables aggression in a breed of that type.


Aggression with those breeds are not taught. It's in them already. Labs,Goldens and others it is a learned behavior.

Glad you came out ok Tom!

[tombogan03884]

I think you're off base. 1st, there is duty to retreat from a confrontaion, (not a threat depending on the state), but an argument that could come to blows, you walk away. If you don't ,you have a problem. You may think a fist fight entails a bloody nose, I might think it ends with you stomping my head in. Ergo I fell threatened and pull a gun. Unless its at the gym a fist fight should only be in an SD situation and then all cards are on the table. Your job is to be mature and man enough to walk (or run if necessary) away. If the other guy won't let you, well, that becomes  his problem. Just my 02.
FQ13

It depends on your state, in Texas that guy shot 2 thieves running off with his neighbors stuff and walked. In Mass a few years ago a woman was attacked in her home, when her attacker threatened her Kids she shot him and killed him. They put her on trial saying she had not done enough to flee.

[ericire12]

I also dont like that they charged him with animal cruelty for killing a dog that attacked him.