If you are going to own a gun........

[Hottrockin]

You bust into my place and the shit is on!  I don't even need a weapon!  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'd rather die knowin' I tried, than die not tryin'!

[MikeBjerum]

I have never shot a person, and I have never drawn on a person, so I don't know if I could actually pull the bang switch if I needed to .  However, it is something I consider everytime I put the the leather and steel on!  From having taken gun and light out on the yard when possible threat is there, I do know that I go into a different mind set than I experience any other time (the buzzer in competition is a very similar sensation).  I do believe that being in the position of this person I would empty the mag ... I hope I never have to prove it, but if I didn't believe it I wouldn't carry.

While training is very important, I put #1 as the mindset that you are willing to risk your own life and take another life, to protect yourself and loved ones.  If you can't say that you are willing to try you have no business picking up the tool in the first place.

[tombogan03884]

...Waiting for a person who has actually shot people to mention most people, contrary to everyone's self image as John Wayne, cannot shoot another face to face.
The Army spends a great deal of money training soldiers to drop their humanity and kill.
Sill, dropping it seems like suicide. Even if he discovered he couldn't pull the trigger!

People from 10 to 82 manage it , this guy was just a dumbass.

[MikeBjerum]

OK, this is weird!

At 19:51 I type a reply on here, and at 21:38 the door bell rings and rings and rings.  I grabbed the holster and slipped it in my pants; up the stairs I go shutting off interior lights as I go; turn on the outside lights and address person.  "Car trouble" and they want a battery charger.  I wasn't ready to go too deep into things and claimed to not have one - actually did not want to go into machine shed in dark with stranger and unknowns to get it.  He has his own and needs to charge battery.

The whole time is spent scanning, maintaining distance, questioning every possible thing that can happen, thinking of BDT and this forum for information ... and my last post on this thread.  I lent him extension cords to plug into power to charge battery (appears alternator is bad and he enjoys recharging battery more than replacing part).

Midway through the forty minute ordeal the dog goes nuts in kennel.  Nothing but the ewes moving in from pasture for water and settling in for night.

As I have returned to the desk and done some recording of this I am noting my defensive posturing.  Some basics include turning on every outside light and using my flashlight; always scanning ahead of every move and before any position change; minimum fifteen feet separation for visitor; house was locked behind me as I exited (spousal unit in bed); wide open spaces in front of me and solid house behind; constant awareness of my pick up for cover if needed or someone that may be using it for same; and constant replay of BDT episode with the car break down lure last season.

Things I did that amazed me included my constant questioning of where he worked (he claimed to be going to work); why on this road; where he is from; and repeating noting any changes.  I also noted that I kept a 45 degree cant with my weakside toward him nearly all the time - not intentional, but I did find my self in that stance with strong hand on hem of shirt at muzzle level of gun.

I recently read that a release of adrenaline will leave a bitter taste in your mouth.  I did not notice that, but I did not a calm breathing pattern with higher and stronger pulse, and a tightness in my leg abdominal and arm muscles.  These sensations were notable in that I could actually feel them.  Vision was amazingly clear for darkness, but I am making some notes on trees that need trimming and maybe a few more lights to be placed.

If I had been threatened how would or could I have reacted?  With what I am noting in the post situation summary I believe the gun would have come out quick and easy, and I believe I would have had good control and sight picture.  Trigger pull ...I'll never know until the aftermath of facing it, but I think I would have if needed tonight.

This is a great "exercise" to have experienced.  Now I need to finish recording and spend time evaluating.  Thanks for the great advice on TBD Michael and all!

P.S

If you look at my posting record, if it is available, you will probably see me quit at the time the doorbell rang and start back up as soon as I was back in.  You guy's are addictive, and this place has turned me into a multi-tasker that can go back and forth between two or more tasks.

[m25operator]

Whew, M58, don't think I would have gone outside. Told him or her, I'm calling for some help for you, wait by your car. Help is on the way.

I have been in a couple of situations that taught me, no more, I will maintain distance, ( i know you did ) and if this area is under my control then that is what will happen, " stay back, don't approach, you are not welcome here, LEAVE " .

Had a young kid come into my shop at 11pm with his hands behind his back, crossed the some 60' to my area, and I let him, with my hand on a .357 revolver, it turned out ok, but I said " NEVER AGAIN " if this happens again, I will stop them when I see them and get them to state their business, but not allow them to approach.

Drawn a pistol 3 times, did not have to fire, but it got hairy on 2 of them.

Original subject, door broken down, tell spousal unit to get behind the bed, dial 911, AR is out, and I'm behind the bed too, leveled at the door, one of the shitty things but good things about my house, I have a brick fire place in the middle of the house, just outside the bedroom 7' wide and 4' thick, excellent cover. Yell people to leave, police are coming and don't enter here, I have a gun.
If door opens, shoot, shoot, shoot.

Remember uncle Jeff.
The proper response to an intruder of any sort is righteous indignation, HOW DARE YOU, enter my home, try to take my life or property.

Make up your mind every morning, that today I might have to kill someone, then you don't have to decide later when it happens.

The gun holder did neither and is very lucky to be alive, I hope the BG does not use that gun on someone else.

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

this is a perfect example why I say.

"a gun does not equal self defence"

[Ping]

You can never be totally prepared for a home invasion. I thought I was top knots. Had a Belgian Malinois at my side. He started barking and I thought the wife was home early. A kick at the back door proved otherwise. Grabbed the .357 magnum that was set by a http://www.fastholster.com/. Guys, these things work. Grabbed my pistol and was on for the chase. The suspect jumped the fence and ran. I was in pursuit and snow was on the ground. He was able to elude me after several blocks and lack of snow. 

[twyacht]

The mind is the weapon, the pistol just a tool. The guy in the OP had the tool, but NO training.

Condition the mind, train, situational awareness, train, state of mind, train, get training by pros, practice, is all for the "mind" to work with the tool. I try everyday, even if not at the range,drawing from desks with snap caps, scoping my house out at night, looking at hallways, angles, cover, safe rooms, entry points, target areas and what's beyond, windows vs. brick wall...etc,..

My wife leaves the front door unlocked after taking the dog out,... I live in a "decent" area, but this world is full of bad people.
I "gently" remind her to lock the door, but sometimes she doesn't...

So as I make dinner, I glance at the door, see its unlocked, go and lock it, run through "What if's" all the time. Where's my nearest safe room? Where's my nearest firearm? "What if this, what if that" all while I cook, read, post here, etc,..  Could I make it to my guestroom/ office from here in 5 seconds or less? Practice retrieving my firearm from closet, desk drawer, night stand,..

All to hopefully make it something my "mind" has done before, and will do when the adrenaline, fear, noise, tunnel vision, all take place during a critical dynamic incident..(Thanks Rob P.)

"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental."
Albert Jay Nock

"Statistically, fighting back is safer than giving in."
Curt Rich

"There are no victims, only volunteers. You volunteer by acting uncertain and afraid. You volunteer by being, as grass-eaters invariably are, unprepared to confront the hazards of life."
Col. Jeff Cooper

Home Invasions are the worst, kicking in the door, you can hardly prepare for that unless you carry in your house all the time.

Sometimes, not practical.....

*** I have had a couple of close calls with my firearm, thankfully, none involved discharging it, could I??? to prevent the injury or lethal assault on myself, wife, or family? Yes.

I have felt the adrenaline rush, had the uncontrollable shaking after, and I didn't even fire a shot. Talking with the officers when they arrived, (wife called 911),..

this is a perfect example why I say.

"a gun does not equal self defence"


[/quote]

I agree with TAB!

I will not reply to the insignificant, blanket judgment statement by a problematic poster regarding what "everyone cannot do".

[fightingquaker13]

I will say, for the first time in my opinion, onrecess does have a point, and its echoed by TW. A few years back I remember reading a study done by an army shrink on the reluctance of soldiers to shoot. Everything from civil war soldiers loading three or four balls and never pulling the trigger, to vietnam soldiers changing one full mag for another to the results of "shoot don't shoot' training excercises. His point was to condenm 1st person shooter games post Colombine. The reason? The army found that gamers shot faster and easier in exercizes than non-gamers by a considerable margin because it WAS A CONDITIONED REFLEX. The key, as others have said, is to decide when you will and when you won't and then practice doing it. (plus its a great excuse o play quake).
FQ13
PS ballsy move M58 and you are a gentleman, but I probably just would have called AAA for guy.

[MikeBjerum]

Good discussion going.  Not going to argue, but a little clarification:

1.  In our wonderful corner of the world we have two options for people like this at this time of night -  Call LE; Help them yourself ... OK three options, ignore and hope they go away;

2.  We built this home 20 years ago in a different world and with a different mindset (see thread I started on July 10th).  We have several security issues due to comfortable living layout, good fire safety, but poor defense options.

3.  I have had the chance to evaluate our yard while "hunting down" pests after dark and during the day light.  This has given me a perspective of our place I can compare when I read and watch things like BDT or talk with LE and security folk.  I have called LE more than once for people where they shouldn't be, had LE on the yard and visited with them about what they are looking for.  And, I have had "high level" LE on the place following a murder just down the road from here (three cars (two stolen) on the way to be hidden, one driver blew the clutch on a high end Porsche and "bossman" shot and burned him).  Lots of comments were made about our place and layout by them.  Having developed a professional relationship with the department through training I used to do, and friendship from nearly thirty years of contact I am able to glean a lot from them and their perspective.

My basics as of right now (subject to continual evaluation and modification) are that during most times our home is more defensible from outside with our safest room being an "Alamo" - lock yourself in and pray that help gets here soon (this room is getting some structural changes to help it improve).  There are areas of the yard that are completely off limits to me in the defensive mode with clearing done within a perimeter and observation from there.

I think about things around here quite a bit, and this weekend is a time of reflection ... again.  There are a couple minor changes I would have made on Friday night in hindsight, but given what we have now not much and nothing major.  Biggest change and project is to make and actual safe room.  It will be a major project to do while keeping it a comfortable bedroom, but it is a major draw back in this house.  Step two will be to also construct one on the lower level - this will be more elaborate and be labeled as more of a storm shelter.

I am also dealing with a major communication issue.  Land lines are land lines ...  Wireless is a good option for most, but if reliability is paramount in an emergency I rate our cellular coverage at zero - We can get excellent coverage from time to time; most times it breaks up; and yesterday morning, when our answering service was trying to reach me for 45 minutes, it was not there at all, until some Einstein realized they had our regular number and called me on that.  The only choices we have are move phone service into house (bring underground through wall below grade) so there is no exposed communications connections outside (this has been done); sat phone that I am ready to check into, but have heard cost can be an issue; or smoke signals and flare guns 

Rural southern Minnesota is like living in the suburbs of Minneapolis/St. Paul and the wilderness of Montana at the same time.

For TAB and a couple others - the only gun or shooting stickers I have is one "Protected by Smith and Wesson" on the side window of my little pick-up.  I do have a few USPSA paper targets and poppers on the yard for practice. and a rifle target out in the pasture.  However, I am considering one sign by the front door just for you:  "I have guns inside ... I know how to use them ... and, I am pretty darn good with them as well!"     Seriously, my firearms are pretty low key outside of the basic small town idea that nothing is kept under wraps.  It is known that I have guns and shoot, so I deal with it and prepare accordingly.