Police Officers Paying for their WORK GUNS.

[philw]

http://www.eeekonomy.com/discussion/Should-Officers-Pay-for-the-Bang-with-their-Bucks-/70

The Madison, Wis. Police Department may soon pull the trigger on a controversial new assault rifle policy.

According to The Capital Times, the Madison Police Department has been trying to get assault rifles for its officers for years. The City Council has not granted funding for the rifles due to budgetary constraints.

In a disputed effort to better equip the officers, the department has proposed that each officer buy his or her own assault rifle.

The department wants to arm each of its 300 operational officers (those who patrol the streets or drive in the line of duty) with an AR-15. Each rifle costs $1,200. According to Capt. Vic Wahl, the amount for the rifle would be deducted from officers' payroll over 52 weeks.

Opponents of the new policy note safety concerns. The rifles would be considered the personal property of the officers, which could be potentially stolen or used if left in plain sight while off-duty.

"If you take it home at night, do you throw it in the back of the car? You throw it in the trunk? What if it gets stolen and somebody uses it? There are a whole number of problems that could happen," said Paul Skidmore, a member of the Public Safety Review Committee.

Supporters argue officers should have the right to a more accurate weapon.

So, what do you think? Should police weaponry be publicly-funded or purchased by the officers themselves?

Tools of Trade    IMO  all the Tools you need to do your job  should be supplied by your employer  or   if they don't  they should give you a Tool Allowance as part of your Salary package

[TAB]

Thats actually very common, the good news is you can write it off on your taxs.

Police do not need rifles.( beat cops)  it was only after the LA shoot out that they started begging for them.  Guess what, it was not the tools the LAPD had on hand that made that a bad gun fight, it was the LACK of training.

Now granted 9 mm and 12ga buck is not the best tools,( not that there is anything wrong with them, both are very deadly, but a bigger hand gun and slugs would be helpful) but if even one officer had used his 12ga and buck shot to shoot the unarmored legs of the bad guys.  it would have ended very quickly.    Instead every LEA is crying for more tools...  if you can't use the tools you have,more tools are not going to help.

[fightingquaker13]

Gonna disagree Tab
There are times when a rifle is more better. Accuracy (buck spreads at at range darn quickley) and penetration. I'm not sure .556 is the ticket due to range issues, I would be happier with .762x39 for sub 100 yards, but the the point is, I would want the rifle. The issue of standardiztion is legit. Our local SO used to make officers buy their own guns, they had a wide menu to choose from. The new Sheriff killed that and mandated that the Department would provide a .40 SW in (brand x I forget) as he wantd deputies to be able to exchange mags. in a firefight. He did allow "backups' of whatever caliber, but you had to carry brand x. Requireing someone to pony up $1200, plus mags, optics etc for brand x carbines on a $35K salary seems excessive since they will be using it to protect the tax payers, who should be paying for it.
FQ13

[TAB]

do you want the average beat cop taking a shot at 100 yds?  I don't


There was a shoot out not far from me with 3 officers and 1 bad guy at 7 yards or less.

60 something shots were fired, 2 hits.

the 1st officer emptyed an AR( 30 rounds) no hits

The 2nd officer emptyed his side arm, reloaded and emptyed it again.  no hits

the final officer fired twice, 2 hits... the hits where ankle and lower arm( wrist area)   


now tell me, do you want any of these officers making a 100 yd shot?

[philw]

how about this then TAB 


opens up to legal issues 


officer  has his own pistol  and own Ammo   different to what the station / department  has or  recommends

there is a shooting   and the officer ends up in court getting roasted  about  how he used his own equipment that is not recommended and gets done for that due to some technicality  that

"apparently the officer  chose to use a different ammo / pistol  as the ones recommended by the officer's department were not efficient in KILLING the son of my client.  )

you know how greasy lawyers can be.



there needs to be legal protection if they are having to go down this path. 

or better still instead of the gubberment waisting all the cash they are throwing around put it where it needs to be.

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

Give 'em a 30/30.  Hard hitting, accurate at 100 yards and a LOT cheaper.

[TexGun]

TAB and Others:

As the father of a LEO, I can tell you that what they all want first and foremost is more and more training.  For small town and non-metropolitan county agencies funding is always a problem and limits both training and equipment purchases.  So, if the county or city PD has decided that the officers can carry better equipment on their own dime, although it is a shame that they have to pay for it, at least the powers at be have taken a first step towards untying their hands with respect to AR's, tazers or whatever it might be.  They ALL deserve whatever equipment gives them any advantage, be it tactical or psychological, even if it is something they might use in an active duty situation once a year or never in a career.

Unfortunately, the "they don't need AR's" argument is based on anti-gun leanings and simple ignorance.  If you havn't been there or very close to it then keep your mouth shut until you educate yourself even if the purpose of your education shores up your conflicting opinon.  Arm-chair quarterbacking based on what you read/see in the media never equips anyone with all the facts needed to "walk in the shoes" of those on the front lines.

TexGun

[Fatman]

do you want the average beat cop taking a shot at 100 yds?  I don't


There was a shoot out not far from me with 3 officers and 1 bad guy at 7 yards or less.

60 something shots were fired, 2 hits.

the 1st officer emptyed an AR( 30 rounds) no hits

The 2nd officer emptyed his side arm, reloaded and emptyed it again.  no hits

the final officer fired twice, 2 hits... the hits where ankle and lower arm( wrist area)   


now tell me, do you want any of these officers making a 100 yd shot?

TAB, read On Combat please. You might actually understand why stuff like this happens and stop picking on people thrown into a life and death situation they generally don't want to be in, but do so because they have the drive to protect others.

If the choice is we embolden the criminal element (generally sociopaths or the more sever subset of  sociopathology, psychopaths) by letting them think they are better armed and more likely to prevail in a deadly confrontation or up-arming  LEOs, I choose the latter.

For a society to remain viable, every citizen must understand there is a personal risk involved to innocents in dealing with the lawless. The good guys practice hard to limit this risk, the bad guys use it as a shield.  Fortunately it appears the general population has started to understand this basic tenant again, much to the chagrin of the elites.

[Hazcat]

TexGun,

I was not down playing the LEOs needs.  I honestly think a 30/30 is a better choice (even a .44 mag lever would be IMHO).  Better man stopper.  Accurate at 100 yards ( and more).  Also easy to use, easier top off capability and familiar to many.

[ericire12]

TexGun,

I was not down playing the LEOs needs.  I honestly think a 30/30 is a better choice (even a .44 mag lever would be IMHO).  Better man stopper.  Accurate at 100 yards ( and more).  Also easy to use, easier top off capability and familiar to many.

TAB brings up good points about limiting range in an urban environment, but lets not forget........... This is an arms race. (Present day Chicago is the end result of what happens when police armories can not keep up with criminals)

+1 to what TexGun said.

There is no question that police need stopping power. Perhaps something like the KRISS in .45 acp would be a very nice choice..... but the "west hollywood shootout" showed that there is a very real need for them to carry a round that can penetrate body armor...... Perhaps something in 5.7

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=142826010
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=142571320