Requesting Opinions on Carbine Selection

[tombogan03884]

 Don't worry, I'm not saying you have any idea of PUTTING the bodies in the street, but , finders keepers.

[GUNS-R-US]

This, to me, points out the obvious.  Common ammo calibers are owned by the majority of people and those calibers are the hardest to find in a crisis or during a panic of an upcoming crisis.

And I don't recall anyone offering to trade off any of their ammo during the shortage either.

Ulmas, I used several boxes of 308 and 7.62X39 to supplement my unemployment check a while back when I needed some extra cash, just because no one told you doesn't mean it hasn't been happening.
And you are completely backwards on your reasoning on caliber, the ones that "Common ammo calibers are owned by the majority of people and those calibers are the hardest to find in a crisis or during a panic of an upcoming crisis."
The ones that every one is buying up as fast as it's made now, are the ones you are most likely to find available when the stores are not an option, those will be the ones that the people you run into will have, not the ones that were left sitting on the shelves.

I agree with Tom, we didn't see it because their wasn't much of a mass need to barter for ammo, most everyone still had all their basic needs meet. You won't see Ulmas's situation until we actually see TSHF. So I would want to stock pile the Ammo I need for my weapons, and select those weapons base on what ammo I think I can find when/if I have to go mobile in my area during a bad situation. Plus if you have the most common ammo stocked at home 9mm, .40sw, 45acp, 5.56, 7.62x51, and 7.62x39 you have something can possibly barter with for food or medicine if you choose to when TSHF!

[tombogan03884]

 This was in todays Tactical Wire

http://www.thetacticalwire.com/

by Tiger McKee

We get several calls at Shootrite about bringing AK's for Defensive Carbine classes, wondering if it's an acceptable rifle. My answer is always yes. The AK is an ideal fighting rifle, especially when working under adverse conditions.

The AK will function under the harshest conditions, with a minimal amount of upkeep. Bury one in the dirt, dig it up a year later, dump some motor oil in it and crack open the charging handle with your foot. Run a rag through the barrel, load and shoot.

As for ergonomics it's not as user friendly as the AR, but learning the techniques for operating it isn't difficult. One of the biggest issues is the safety. I usually handle that by keeping my right hand a little forward, and off the grip. As I depress the safety my hand drops down to hit the grip. I don't engage the safety until I'm sure the shooting is over.

Cycling the charging handle is no different from a M14 or anything like that. Come underneath the rifle and pull the charging handle to the rear with the support hand. The other option is to operate it with the primary hand, which takes your hand off the grip, but at that point you can't fire anyway, and this may be easier for some individuals. I'm not sure which is better, and depending on what position I'm firing from I've found myself using which ever hand seems to be the most efficient at that moment.

Reloads are easy. Once you realize the rifle is empty the support hand grabs a fresh mag. Bring that mag up, hit the mag release button with the new mag, and swipe out the empty. The fresh mag is rocked into place, seated, and you cycle the charging handle to chamber a round.

One issue to consider is the penetration of the 7.62x39. This round will smoke through a lot of stuff until it comes to a halt. For example a .223 round will normally penetrate halfway through a normal concrete block. The 7.62x39 will run though the block, destroying it in the process, and keep going. So it probably isn't the ideal round for home defense, especially in an urban environment. Accuracy is another thing to consider. The AK ain't a sniper rifle, but it will hit a man-size target out to 3-400 yards as long as you do your part.

There are a lot of accessories out there for the AK, but I think it's perfect as is. You just have to remember what it was designed for, and learn and practice the techniques for operating it. If you don't own one it's still a good idea to know how to work them. There are millions of them out there, and your chance of coming across one is very likely. If you're fighting with a pistol, and the opportunity to acquire an AK comes up, you need to be able to use it properly.

Tiger McKee is director of Shootrite Firearms Academy, located in northern Alabama, author of The Book of Two Guns, a staff member of several firearms/tactical publications, and an adjunct instructor for the F.B.I. (256) 582-4777 www.shootrite.org

[Badgersmilk]

Tiger McKee sounds like a damn sharp fellow!   I like the way the man thinks!  

I didn't mean to bust on quaker to bad earlier...  Well... I guess I'm just not grasping how what type of ammo police carry should influence me, quaker, or anybody, other than other police.  If there is ONE cop left alive, he ain't gonna be leaving dead buddies, or anything to do with their weapons out for civie's to scarf up.  And police stations these days are NOT as well stocked on weapons & ammo as you might be thinking...  Budget's are TIGHT!  And usually police (like our military) are using calibers that are NOT ideal, but are what was pushed upon them.

In a crisis, my main objective is to avoid the police more than everybody else X10!  They will be looking to confiscate, or comendier ANYTHING they can get their hands on!

Hey quaker, if you haven't read it yet, check out "One Second After"!  You can download the audio book free at "audible.com" if you sign up for a temporary membership (that you can cancel later at anytime).  DO IT!  It's 13+ hours to listen to, and I stayed up all night unable to stop!  GREAT STUFF!!!

[tombogan03884]

Taking up where BM left off .
I can't speak for the Army reserve but National guard armories may supply weapons but you'll need another source for ammo.
I had 100 M 16's in my Arms Room, but I never saw a single round of 223. When we were going to shoot some one from the Ammo section had to go down to Ft. Devens the Friday before and draw our ammo. (Devens has since closed. )

[Sponsor]

[Combat Diver]

For a SHTF senerio I'll take a direct gas impingent AR anyday!  I've been using the M16/AR15 for over 26 years in very harsh enviroments (desert, saltwater diving, Apline skiing and combat).  The only place where rust will develope on an AR is the barrel, front sight tower and flash hinder.  Spare parts are all over the place along with magazines.  I have a good chance of finding 5.56mm floating around as Camp Lejune is just to the north and Ft Bragg to the West.  If you ever swim with a couple of mags and rifle, I'll take a AR over the boat anchor of the AK any day (done both)



Whatever you decide, practice with it, shoot it enough to know that its realiable and accurate enough, then stock pile ammo, warm clothing, food, water, gas, etc. 

For all those who think that they are going to hunt big game with their guns, the best round is going to be the .22LR, bow or suppressed weapon as you do not to draw attention to yourself.

CD

[1911 Junkie]

From someone who walks the walk. 

[Badgersmilk]

"For all those who think that they are going to hunt big game with their guns, the best round is going to be the .22LR, bow or suppressed weapon as you do not to draw attention to yourself."

+1!  Ever hear the old myth that people can't locate you from sound if you only fire once?  BULL!  I've hunted deer with my friends and dad, and everytime they ever fired their guns I was always able to walk straight to them no matter where they were, or how far away (if the other guy shot, you knew he'd gotten a deer and could probably use your help).

While I've never tried to take a deer with a .22, my dad has gotten 3 that way back in the day.  "Gotta be close, and get the head shot between the eye and ear."

[Jackel]

my first thought was .22LR just because of the utility of it. Ammo is cheaper than dirt, small so you can carry a ton of it, weapon is lighter and generally simpler, as many different bullets for them as rifles to shoot them, eg. splitting, expanding, exploding, magnum, super magnum etc. can easily make a suppressor that will mask its noise easily.

The big complaint is stopping power, but the way i see it is you can carry so many rounds that it dose not have to be a problem. as stated above, cci makes rounds that split in half and then expand, causing devastating internal injury.   

.02

[texcaliber]

My 2cents,

AR15 along with a dedicated AR22lr.

or

308 bolt gun (or larger) of your choice and a 22lr. bolt gun with the same optic as center fire system.

Opinion disclaimer. 
Practice and stock up/pile when possible while still having the ability to open your option bubble toward any or most hypothetical situations. Not one gun is perfect for everything, I know, but this is the better all-a-round system which is still very usable on the weekends for Fun and Training to better ones self and fill the "just in case void" well .

tex