DEFENSIVE ACTIVE SHOOTER TRAINING -- IS IT VALUEABLE ? ?

[Rastus]

The heroine of the Fort Hood shootings was reported to have Active Shooter training.  Of the few tactics I know for active shooters I think the training is valueable and spoke with my training center yesterday to schedule active shooter defense training for my family.  

Not like law enforcement where you are empowered to seek and stop a threat, but civilian in nature where you can act only to defend life and dependent life.  Also to include training for dependents so they can act independently and allow the person responsible for their safety to react with a minimum of concern that the dependents are easy targets.  It's 21 for concealed carry here in Oklahoma so my nearly grown boys that have a better head on their shoulders than most the doting public can't carry to defend themselves but should know what to do to exacerbate the situation.

[ratcatcher55]

I think I would make sure your sons are well trained in marksmanship, gunhandling, mindset and basic tactics.

Hopefully they will never have to fight their way out of a building much less fight their way in.

IMHO Too much of the high speed stuff without a very solid base is a propblem in my mind.

[Hazcat]

I'm not sure Rastus.  As you say we should not be 'charging to the sound of guns'.  I think (maybe) that active shooter training for us and families should be more about cover, concealment and escape.  Also all should follow the orders of the family / group member with the gun (yes, I am assuming that said person is level headed).

JMHO

[Rastus]

I agree with both of you.  Focus on avoidance after-the-fact first...then how to safely escape.  Lastly what to do if avoidance and escape fail.  

Excluding what I had shown them, the entire family has been though professional handling and marksmanship.  

Over the decades the society has decayed to the point where I believe it is prudent to be prepared for an active shooter.  I don't want to rely on hopeful statistical chances or effective law enforcement being there for me when it happens.  The training the standard officer gets in gun handling and marksmanship...well, it sucks because qualifying is mostly square range stuff...not all I know so don't flame me, but the garden variety officer does not have 1/4 the training my family has received or what you and your family can have....and that's based upon college buddies and shooter friends who are LE across 5 or so states in various jurisdictions (Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas).  

My Class III dealer buys a lot of PD weapons for resale....most of them are hardly shot and except for some holster wear look brand new. 

[tombogan03884]

I think I would make sure your sons are well trained in marksmanship, gunhandling, mindset and basic tactics.

Hopefully they will never have to fight their way out of a building much less fight their way in.

IMHO Too much of the high speed stuff without a very solid base is a propblem in my mind.

Ratcatcher, If you are referring strictly to Police oriented training I would agree that it would be no more than recreation for a NON LEO to take such training. However instruction on the potential problems of getting out of Dodge tailored for ordinary citizens would be of great help.
More along the lines of "DON'T panic" than "going to the sound of the guns".

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

Ratcatcher, If you are referring strictly to Police oriented training I would agree that it would be no more than recreation for a NON LEO to take such training. However instruction on the potential problems of getting out of Dodge tailored for ordinary citizens would be of great help.
More along the lines of "DON'T panic" than "going to the sound of the guns".

Exactly.  Which is why, in my first post at least, I said active shooter defense training.  I should have stated defense in the poll...I'll try to change it.  You have the opportunity to change your vote if desired.

[ratcatcher55]

Tom & Ratus,

Active shooter response is an agressive "to the guns" tactic. It's not and can not be defensive in nature.

I agree with you on the get out of Dodge training. The BDS segment on the non shooter holding on to the belt and giving 360 coverage to the family team was that kind of tactic that I think is real world and worth practicing

[tombogan03884]

In today's world where nut jobs can turn up literally any where it would be a reasonable consideration for even NON gun people to have some idea what to do rather than just running in circles screaming. The Ft. Hood incident was unusual in that armed LE's actually arrived while it was still in progress. Generally that is not the case, I recall reading about one of the Mall shootings, local police arrived in 6 minutes, which is good response time in a city, but the whole incident took only 4 minutes, the shooter had done what he intended and then killed himself before trained personnel ever arrived.

[PegLeg45]

First of all I believe quality training is a positive thing.
Also, one needs to be aware of the mental aspects and split-second decision making skills associated with being involved in a situation like Ft. Hood or a mall shooting.

*For example, are you by yourself in a public place when a shooter goes on a rampage or do you have family members to protect?
*Finding cover and concealment, whether alone or with family, and for what (if any) reasons do you break concealment?
*I do not advocate charging in like ol' John Wayne, but if the assailant is heading your way with guns blazing, do you wait and see, or strike to try and end the attack?
*If LEO's are on the scene and engaged, but the fight overlaps into your safe zone of concealment, do you engage and risk being mistaken by LEO's as a hostile target?

As with any situation, there are many variables to be considered.

[r_w]

Way WAY back, like nearly 20 years ago, we had what COULD have been a virginia tech situation when I was in college (University of Nebraska).  A student didn't like the grade or critique he received on a psych paper and was going to prove his point.  He walked into class with his new surplus rifle and was going to take out the prof and as many of the "teacher's pets" as he could.  Before he could get a shot off, he was tackled by a couple kids from the front row.  All it takes is the ONE, the warrior, to change the course of the battle.  I often wonder what the world would be like if we would have had a few more warriors on those planes on 9/11.