5.7 for Self Defense

[Rob10ring]

Bullet placement! I love .45, but I've shot the Five-seveN and it is super easy to put rounds precisely where you want them. With people moving around and the pressure of advancing officers, he was still able to get hits. We often attribute too much magic to the 45acp, when there have been failure to stops with that caliber too.

Based on the reports coming out, Officer Munley almost didn't make it. She lost a lot of blood and was in and out of consciousness. I wouldn't discount the 5.7. However, my choice for defense would probably be something more street proven. Maybe we'll have that proof of the newer cartridge someday.

"Munley, a 34-year-old former soldier who became a civilian cop on the Fort Hood base, was shot twice in both legs during Thursday's confrontation. Two powerful "cop killer" rounds (oh crap! Here we go - or BOHICA) allegedly fired by Hasan tore through her left thigh, exited and blasted through her right thigh as well. She was also struck in the wrist.

Sgt. Mark Todd, 42, a retired soldier who also works as a civilian police officer at Ford Hood, also engaged in a firefight with Hasan that lasted less than a minute, according to The Associated Press. Todd was not wounded.

Army officials say that an investigation is under way about whose bullets brought down Hasan as there was much confusion following the shooting. Munley's supervisor initially credited her with the shot that stopped Hasan."
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/fort-hood-hero-sgt-kimberly-munleys-asked-died/story?id=9022438

[Rob10ring]

Good stuff! I wish our favorite discussion topics weren't so closely related to this tragedy.

And when addressing the 20 round capacity, I just read a quote from Walt Rauch "If you can't solve the problem with 5 rounds, what makes you think five more (in this case 15 ) will do it".

I love to read Walt's stuff, but while that quote is probably almost always true, because of the average elapsed time of a shootout, if I ever get into a fight where I'm standing after 5 rounds and it's still active, I hope I have more trigger pulls left

Then of course there is plain old common sense, assuming effective hits, bigger holes bleed faster.

Wouldn't that be true for deeper holes bleed faster too?

[Rastus]

Good stuff! I wish our favorite discussion topics weren't so closely related to this tragedy.I love to read Walt's stuff, but while that quote is probably almost always true, because of the average elapsed time of a shootout, if I ever get into a fight where I'm standing after 5 rounds and it's still active, I hope I have more trigger pulls left
Wouldn't that be true for deeper holes bleed faster too?

Deeper only if the wound channel will stay open. 

Having a 20 round clip would be an advantage.

[Hazcat]

Deeper only if the wound channel will stay open. 

Having a 20 round clip would be an advantage.

RASTUS!

[PegLeg45]

Deeper only if the wound channel will stay open. 

Having a 20 round clip would be an advantage.

RASTUS!

That woke yer old ass up didn't it?

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

I knew I'd get a bite.  Tom and I were talking about it....took the bait a little quicker than I thought you would, Haz.

[Rob Pincus]

You guys have drifted off and on topic a few times since I posted earlier today... but I was workin'.... so, running back to whereI was left off:

I was not trying to argue the point of how fast or accurate you can shoot it.  Nor was I talking about capacity.  I was talking about effectiveness.  But RP was just chomping at the bit to make a snide remark from his lofty, 'superior knowledge' position.

Haz,

What I was "chomping at the bit" for... or more precisely, what I was cynically expecting... was someone to twist the information to their own agenda. Either side could've done it, but I expected it from those negative to the 5.7, not "the other side".

Please don't take my comment as supporting the idea of the 5.7 for self defense. I was simply pointing out the flaws of your statement which focused on one aspect of the chosen gun/round and ignored the other ones. It is that kind of opinion that I detest in this forum. You can't separate caliber/capacity/recoil/energy/firearm... they are all related and all rounds/guns are compromises of those factors (and others). The point isn't "superior knowledge", the point is critical thinking skills.

If you had said "If someone had a .45 caliber weapon that carried the same # rounds and could've shot it just as well, a lot more people would've died!" I wouldn't have said a thing... or maybe I would've said "Excellent post, Haz, that was a well thought out statement!".

Too often people want things to be simple. Things usually are not.

Anyone should feel free to start a thread praising the appropriate job performance of Munley or other aspects of this event.

-RJP

PS- Rastus' point should be well taken guys... let's worry about important things and focus on intelligent discussion that can help people make informed decisions about life & death topics.