The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on January 31, 2010, 01:08:15 AM
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The last time they went through something like this the books disappeared from peoples computers (I'm not sure how Kindle works but people lost content they had paid for )
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100131/ap_on_en_ot/us_amazon_macmillan
NEW YORK – New copies of Hilary Mantel's "Wolf Hall," Andrew Young's "The Politician" and other books published by Macmillan were unavailable Saturday on Amazon.com, a drastic step in the ongoing dispute over e-book prices.
Macmillan CEO John Sargent said he was told Friday that its books would be removed from Amazon.com, as would e-books for Amazon's Kindle e-reader. Books will be available on Amazon.com through private sellers and other third parties, Sargent said.
Sargent met with Amazon officials Thursday to discuss the publisher's new pricing model for e-books. He wrote in a letter to Macmillan authors and literary agents Saturday that the plan would allow Amazon to make more money selling Macmillan books and that Macmillan would make less. He characterized the dispute as a disagreement over "the long-term viability and stability of the digital book market."
Macmillan and other publishers have criticized Amazon for charging just $9.99 for best-selling e-books on its Kindle e-reader, a price publishers say is too low and could hurt hardcover sales, which generally carry a list price of more than $24.
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hehe think Apple with be giving Kindle a run for the $$$
will be interesting
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hehe think Apple with be giving Kindle a run for the $$$
will be interesting
The new Apple iPon, the feminine hygiene device? Highly doubtful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4&feature=related)
The ebook market is still highly fragile, as evidenced by the Amazon-Macmillan dispute, the previous removal or Orwell's books from the Kindle, and the crappy iPad - and Kindle for that matter. Interesting to watch, no doubt, but the Apple at this moment is a fail. The second gen referenced in the video may be better, we'll just have to see.
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The new Apple iPon, the feminine hygiene device? Highly doubtful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4&feature=related)
The ebook market is still highly fragile, as evidenced by the Amazon-Macmillan dispute, the previous removal or Orwell's books from the Kindle, and the crappy iPad - and Kindle for that matter. Interesting to watch, no doubt, but the Apple at this moment is a fail. The second gen referenced in the video may be better, we'll just have to see.
hehe seen the vid and the "with wings" joke as also been said here
yep it will be a case of wait and see however the response has been good from what I have seen however the Media Hyped it up way too much here and people were expecting more :-\
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hehe think Apple with be giving Kindle a run for the $$$
will be interesting
Apple will see the same bickering and bs over prices for ebooks as Amazon.
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Apple will see the same bickering and bs over prices for ebooks as Amazon.
hehe they are all ready used to it with the music ;D
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The last time they went through something like this the books disappeared from peoples computers (I'm not sure how Kindle works but people lost content they had paid for )
If it's anything like music from a service, the licensing software blocks you from accessing the book. It's there, you just can't read it...
I love the idea of Kindle, not so much the implementation.
For those interested in comparing Apples to Amazons:
Apple's iPad vs. Amazon's Kindle: It's not zero sum (http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=30226&tag=nl.e539)
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LovemyXDs showed me his phone/ communicator, I forget what brand he said it was but it's basically a laptop computer that fits in a shirt pocket, with phone. He was telling me that he has not used his actual computer in months, We were sitting at the counter in the local Coffee shop and he was logged in here.
Seems like the thing that limits miniaturization is the key board, it has to be large enough to be usable.
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Since I am NOT all that techno savy.... I have to ask...does the Kindle hook up to your computer say like via a USB cord?
Is the electronic version of book in the same format as say if you wanted to read a book on your regular desk top computer?
Is there a back door way to take the e-book off your Kindle or copy it to your desk top....or to a DVD data disk?
I would be ticked if I bought an e-book and then the next time I went to hook the whole sha-bang to the internet, all my other e-Books went POOF!
>:( >:( >:(
I'd be expecting a refund from Amazon, and I am thinking there are enough Amazon Kindle users out there that they could definitely leverage the threat of a class action lawsuit into making Amazon cough up the dough.
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Have to wait for one of the Geeks to reply, I just remembered the stink about the Orwell books so I posted this when I saw it on Yahoo news.
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I have no desire for any kind of e-reader. Don't really care for most of the new techno phone stuff. Haveing said that I do have a cell phone that came with more features than what I use and a basic GPS.
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I settle for just being able to make a phone call ;D
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Since I am NOT all that techno savy.... I have to ask...does the Kindle hook up to your computer say like via a USB cord?
Is the electronic version of book in the same format as say if you wanted to read a book on your regular desk top computer?
Is there a back door way to take the e-book off your Kindle or copy it to your desk top....or to a DVD data disk?
I would be ticked if I bought an e-book and then the next time I went to hook the whole sha-bang to the internet, all my other e-Books went POOF!
>:( >:( >:(
I'd be expecting a refund from Amazon, and I am thinking there are enough Amazon Kindle users out there that they could definitely leverage the threat of a class action lawsuit into making Amazon cough up the dough.
The format of the e-book is proprietary to Kindle, but they have a free downloadable reader for a PC and seem for MAC...they say
The Kindle does connect to a PC using an USB port and you can "backup" your e-documents. You don't have to keep all you have on the Kindle. You can manage them as a PC file.
Amazon does keep track of what you bought, so you can lose your Kindle and your backups and retrieve everything, assuming it hasn't been "recalled".
There is 3rd party software available that allows you to better manage your Kindle on the PC side.
The latest version of the Kindle software will read PDF files and you could convert them to Kindle format if you wanted Kindle pagination features for it.
You can load your text files to your kindle by sending them to an email address you are provided with and they will be converted an for free.
I think that covered it all?
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Yep that got it Solus
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/01/31/ipad_debut_ignites_price_war_between_amazon_and_publisher_macmillan.html
Amazon stopped selling print and e-books from publisher Macmillan this weekend over a price dispute, just days after Apple introduced the iPad and its own iBookstore for e-books.
According to The Wall Street Journal, Macmillan CEO John Sargent visited Amazon Thursday to negotiate a new deal for e-book sales. Talks apparently did not go well, as he was later informed that his company's books would only be available for sale through third parties on Amazon.com.
"Amazon, the leading e-book seller in the world, now faces the prospect of publishers demanding the same terms they receive from Apple," the Journal wrote. "People familiar with Amazon's action said the move by the online retailer, which targets not only e-books but hardcover and paperback titles, signals its unhappiness with the prospect that e-book prices may rise in coming months as a result of Apple's e-book debut."
Just days earlier, Apple co-founder Steve Jobs had a conversation with Journal tech reporter Walt Mossberg in which he said that iPad book prices would be "the same" as the cost of e-book content for Amazon's Kindle. Currently, Kindle bestsellers go for $9.99, but a previous report said Apple wanted to offer bestsellers for between $12.99 and $14.99.
The apparent troubles between Macmillan and Amazon suggests that Jobs' comments to Mossberg were meant to imply that Amazon book prices would eventually increase to match higher costs on the iPad. Jobs also noted taht book publishers were "withholding their books from Amazon, because they're not happy with it."
On Wednesday, Macmillan was highlighted as one of five high-profile book publishers that would be a part of the iBookstore, a marketplace within the new iPad iBooks application. Apple's iBookstore business strategy allegedly employs the same 70-30 split in favor of content providers as the existing iPhone App Store.
"It is expected that publishers will now seek to do business with Amazon and other e-book retailers on the same terms as with Apple," the Journal wrote. "By setting their own prices, publishers would be able to eliminate discounting on Amazon and elsewhere that they believe threatens the long-term business model of publishing."
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IIRC all of the current generation of e-readers in the US are able to download content through the various wireless companies that is paid through the initial cost of the e-reader and the cost of the downloaded content.
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IIRC all of the current generation of e-readers in the US are able to download content through the various wireless companies that is paid through the initial cost of the e-reader and the cost of the downloaded content.
Kindle will d/l via a 3G wireless connection, included in the price of the reader. Ipad does not include tha tin the price. think it was estmated at $150 extra.
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LovemyXDs showed me his phone/ communicator, I forget what brand he said it was but it's basically a laptop computer that fits in a shirt pocket, with phone. He was telling me that he has not used his actual computer in months, We were sitting at the counter in the local Coffee shop and he was logged in here.
Seems like the thing that limits miniaturization is the key board, it has to be large enough to be usable.
Hey Tom....
My phone is the Motorola Droid... It is pretty much the cat's ass... It's a phone, a GREAT GPS (turn by turn, voice control and even a topographic, street or satelite view... even shows you a street view of your destination 360 degrees.) The web browser does everything except Flash (but that is coming in a month or so.) It also has Adobe Acrobat so it reads ebooks too! It isn't a replacement for a desktop, but for 99 percent of my usage online it is fine! The only drawback like you said is the keyboard, the keys are too tiny for my ham hands, but the touch screen keyboard is pretty good once you get used to it. You can also use the voice recognition software which is very good, but walking around talking at your phone is kinda weird to me!
In a nutshell..... the Droid is the best thing that ever happened to taking a dump since toilet paper! ;D
I haven't seen a Kindle yet, and the Ipad looks like a tablet PC, a Netbook and an IPod Touch had a threesome and no one knows who the daddy is! The Kindle is meant for reading, the Ipad is a multimedia device. The Kindle has amazing battery life by all accounts, because it uses a screen called "digital ink" It only uses power to change the page rather than to display a redrawn screen sixty times a second. Most Kindle owners are older too... they want to read books, not see FACEBOOK pals do stupid things on YouTube!
Cheers,
Scott
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Hey Tom....
My phone is the Motorola Droid... It is pretty much the cat's ass... It's a phone, a GREAT GPS (turn by turn, voice control and even a topographic, street or satelite view... even shows you a street view of your destination 360 degrees.) The web browser does everything except Flash (but that is coming in a month or so.) It also has Adobe Acrobat so it reads ebooks too! It isn't a replacement for a desktop, but for 99 percent of my usage online it is fine! The only drawback like you said is the keyboard, the keys are too tiny for my ham hands, but the touch screen keyboard is pretty good once you get used to it. You can also use the voice recognition software which is very good, but walking around talking at your phone is kinda weird to me!
In a nutshell..... the Droid is the best thing that ever happened to taking a dump since toilet paper! ;D
I haven't seen a Kindle yet, and the Ipad looks like a tablet PC, a Netbook and an IPod Touch had a threesome and no one knows who the daddy is! The Kindle is meant for reading, the Ipad is a multimedia device. The Kindle has amazing battery life by all accounts, because it uses a screen called "digital ink" It only uses power to change the page rather than to display a redrawn screen sixty times a second. Most Kindle owners are older too... they want to read books, not see FACEBOOK pals do stupid things on YouTube!
Cheers,
Scott
note to self: never barrow his phone.
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I haven't seen a Kindle yet, and the Ipad looks like a tablet PC, a Netbook and an IPod Touch had a threesome and no one knows who the daddy is! The Kindle is meant for reading, the Ipad is a multimedia device. The Kindle has amazing battery life by all accounts, because it uses a screen called "digital ink" It only uses power to change the page rather than to display a redrawn screen sixty times a second. Most Kindle owners are older too... they want to read books, not see FACEBOOK pals do stupid things on YouTube!
Cheers,
Scott
I agree
one thing with the iPad people are trying to compare it to what is out now
however it is pitched at a new space in the market not something that is out now like the did with MP3 Players and iPods
I agree the battery life is different however they are completely different devices
will I get one... not sure as I have enough crap and would rather get more guns than another bit of tech
however yep will use them as that is what I do.
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Update ***
the word from Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/tag/kindle/forum/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdThread=Tx2MEGQWTNGIMHV&displayType=tagsDetail
Dear Customers:
Macmillan, one of the "big six" publishers, has clearly communicated to us that, regardless of our viewpoint, they are committed to switching to an agency model and charging $12.99 to $14.99 for e-book versions of bestsellers and most hardcover releases.
We have expressed our strong disagreement and the seriousness of our disagreement by temporarily ceasing the sale of all Macmillan titles. We want you to know that ultimately, however, we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles, and we will want to offer them to you even at prices we believe are needlessly high for e-books. Amazon customers will at that point decide for themselves whether they believe it's reasonable to pay $14.99 for a bestselling e-book. We don't believe that all of the major publishers will take the same route as Macmillan. And we know for sure that many independent presses and self-published authors will see this as an opportunity to provide attractively priced e-books as an alternative.
Kindle is a business for Amazon, and it is also a mission. We never expected it to be easy!
Thank you for being a customer.
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Amazon sucks... writers, musicians, etc. get a crap deal from them and they get what they deserve.
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Amazon is the Walmart of media--our way or the highway. It is really a strange day when Apple is the more open company??
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I know I am like really frugal...okay...okay...I am a cheap @$$.
I just go to the libray with my library card, and get books for....hey, get this...for free.
;D
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I know I am like really frugal...okay...okay...I am a cheap @$$.
I just go to the libray with my library card, and get books for....hey, get this...for free.
;D
Socialist!....do you think that wisdom can be shared for FREE? Would great men like Alexander or Napoleon waste time with libraries ? ::)
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Um, yes if they had had them. Lincoln sure would have ;D
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Um, yes if they had had them. Lincoln sure would have ;D
Benefits Franklin and some of his Masonic Pals created America's first lending library in Philadelphia.....
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Let me speak up on behalf of the Ivory Tower, Capitalists, or old farts here, take your pick. I get paid (in theory) to write. In academia, we make nothing as our books and articles are read by dozens. Our reward, come salary time, is how many folks cite our works. Writing, or composing is hard work (ask Jay Bet). If people won't pay, I won't do it. Even the Youtube stuff will dry up as folks are just hoping to get noticed. You want stuff for free? You get what you pay for. Lets assume an author gets 15% of the gross, at $10 per 1,000 page novel, I'll have to sell twice as many as if they went for $20 hardcover. And who wants to read 1,000 pages on the PC? What happens when the website goes down, or the technology changes (yet again) and I have to buy and learn a new system? I am too damn old to fool with it. I want to buy and own a decent book, or at least check it out of a library (which pays a lot more than retail for the right to lend it out). I tend to reread stuff after a year or two has passed. Hell, I just got done reconquering the world for the UK and kicking Napolean's arse, with Patrick O'Brien for about the third time. I didn't have to download anything. Just open the damn books. Nations that safeguard intellectual property flourish as they nurture creativity. Those that don't make bargain basement knockoffs. See which gets you further long term. Screw this. Shortchange writers, muscians and inventors and you better like the world as it is now, as its not going to get any better. Rant over.
FQ13
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Let me speak up on behalf of the Ivory Tower, Capitalists, or old farts here, take your pick. I get paid (in theory) to write. In academia, we make nothing as our books and articles are read by dozens. Our reward, come salary time, is how many folks cite our works. Writing, or composing is hard work (ask Jay Bet). If people won't pay, I won't do it. Even the Youtube stuff will dry up as folks are just hoping to get noticed. You want stuff for free? You get what you pay for. Lets assume an author gets 15% of the gross, at $10 per 1,000 page novel, I'll have to sell twice as many as if they went for $20 hardcover. And who wants to read 1,000 pages on the PC? What happens when the website goes down, or the technology changes (yet again) and I have to buy and learn a new system? I am too damn old to fool with it. I want to buy and own a decent book, or at least check it out of a library (which pays a lot more than retail for the right to lend it out). I tend to reread stuff after a year or two has passed. Hell, I just got done reconquering the world for the UK and kicking Napolean's arse, with Patrick O'Brien for about the third time. I didn't have to download anything. Just open the damn books. Nations that safeguard intellectual property flourish as they nurture creativity. Those that don't make bargain basement knockoffs. See which gets you further long term. Screw this. Shortchange writers, muscians and inventors and you better like the world as it is now, as its not going to get any better. Rant over.
FQ13
FQ. first, I'm not sure I understand your example of a book selling for $10 and you needing to sell twice as many if it sells for $20 hard cover? From how I understood it is if you get 15% of the gross you will get twice as much from the same sales at $20 than at $10?
Second, I also read a lot and often reread books several times, sometimes years later. That is why I prefer the Kindle. Over the years my Hard Copy library has suffered loss, damage moving and space constraints that has cost me some of the works.
With the Kindle, I can have as many books as I have the storage capacity to handle and since they can be stored on PC media, it is limited the the number of DVDs I dedicate to the library.
A record is kept at Amazon so I am able to redownload when needed. Of course this is subject to the fortunes of Amazon.
With the Kindle, I am able to keep 100 books with me. I am able to have book marks in all of them. I am able to mark passages and make notes and all that is kept with the book.
I am able to highlight any word and the definition of that word is displayed.
I have downloaded for free many of the classics.
I thought I would miss having the hard copy in my hands...they feel of the book and the smell of paper and leather in some cases. This has not happened. I find the Kindle format much easier to read, more convenient. Actually, when I read a hard copy book, I find myself pressing where the Kindle Next Page button would be and, smilingly, put off by the delay of needing to Manually turn a page.
I am happy with my Kindle
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Solus
As to the math thing, its about selling E books vs hard copy and the demand. Lets say 1,000 people want to read my book. I make half as much if they buy E-books vs hard copy if the price is half as much. As to the trusting a website to stay inbusiness vs having the thing in my my hand and reflexively hitting the "next page" key? I guessing you're way under 40. Either that or I'm old before my time. ;D
FQ13 who doesn't stick needles in his music, but increasingly respects those who do. cf my earlier posts in re. "Old Hippie" by the Bellamy Brothers.
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Solus
As to the math thing, its about selling E books vs hard copy and the demand. Lets say 1,000 people want to read my book. I make half as much if they buy E-books vs hard copy if the price is half as much. As to the trusting a website to stay inbusiness vs having the thing in my my hand and reflexively hitting the "next page" key? I guessing you're way under 40. Either that or I'm old before my time. ;D
FQ13 who doesn't stick needles in his music, but increasingly respects those who do. cf my earlier posts in re. "Old Hippie" by the Bellamy Brothers.
Ok..I understand the math example. Not sure the author should be paid a % of the printing and distribution costs for hard copy.
I did read your Old Hippie post and have been a Hippie wannabe forever. I just love the Ideal, but realize it will never be possible this side of Eden. And, Junior, I will be 63 next month.
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Ok..I understand the math example. Not sure the author should be paid a % of the printing and distribution costs for hard copy.
I did read your Old Hippie post and have been a Hippie wannabe forever. I just love the Ideal, but realize it will never be possible this side of Eden. And, Junior, I will be 63 next month.
I was a hippie, and trust me, it was over rated (except for the free sex part). Dirty, unkempt, drugged out people are not fun to be around. Never got into drugs, was not all that interested in body painting or putting big daisies on my car. Intellectually, it was even worse.
As someone once said,
My hippy happiness got jaded by all of the scars.
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I settle for just being able to make a phone call ;D
We'll have to get you into a BlackBerry once we take office.
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Like hell , I plan on turning off the phone most of the time.
The current administration proves that the best way for Government to handle most problems is to ignore them and they will go away.
Or don't cause them in the first place. ;D